Quote from amp88 :

Cigarettes, alcohol, refined sugar are all more harmful than marijuana. The best parents, IMO, are those who allow their children to have some latitude when it comes to self-discovery and learning lessons in life. Parents who try to stop their children from drinking alcohol or smoking, for example, are doing entirely the wrong thing in my opinion.

You said that Cigaretts and alcohol are worse than cannabis, yet you wouldn't stop your child from using them? Strange logic. Why not ask to swap their beer or Cigarette for a spliff? That would make more sense going by your logic prior to this post, but your post contridicts itself. You said alcohol is worse than marijuana but you'd let your child continue to drink until it found out it was worse than marijuana? Normally when people finally realise one of their habits is bad, it's usually too late.

Quote from amp88 :

it is less dangerous than other similar drugs (tobacco and alcohol)

Nice belief, but must be another wishful thinking. Any experimental evidence to support this idea?

Quote from jibber :

I smoke weed since 15 years, daily. I have yet to experience any of those things.

I also know lots and lots of people who smoke weed on a daily basis, some of them do this since before the day i was born (more than 30 years). I have yet to meet somebody who shows any of those nonsense "after effects" of smoking weed.

From some time few years ago I don't believe in anecdotes nor favour others in this. Even when being sincere, people continuously self-deceive, over-estimate their own abilities and those of the others, be it (1) alcohol ("Others can drink much and don't vomit"), (2) smoking ("I can quit whenever I want"), (3) sleeping ("I/that guy sleep(s) only N hours a day").

Quote from BlueFlame :

You said that Cigaretts and alcohol are worse than cannabis, yet you wouldn't stop your child from using them? Strange logic. Why not ask to swap their beer or Cigarette for a spliff? That would make more sense going by your logic prior to this post, but your post contridicts itself. You said alcohol is worse than marijuana but you'd let your child continue to drink until it found out it was worse than marijuana? Normally when people finally realise one of their habits is bad, it's usually too late.

Now you're back to missing the point again. If I had a teenage child (somewhere between 15 and 17, say but those are somewhat arbitrary) I wouldn't mind if they experimented with alcohol, cigarettes or marijuana. I wouldn't want them to become an alcoholic or a regular smoker (until they were of legal age to do so) but life lessons learned by the person themselves carry more weight than being told not to do something by a parent. You also seem to think it's actually possible for a parent to stop their child doing something, which is laughable. If you had a child who wanted to smoke or wanted to drink you would be almost powerless to stop them.

Quote from detail :

Nice belief, but must be another wishful thinking. Any experimental evidence to support this idea?

Effects of cannabis vs tobacco and short and long term effects of alcohol.

You talk far to much good sense.

You're wasting your time debating with BlueFlame though.

Quote from amp88 :

Effects of cannabis vs tobacco and short and long term effects of alcohol.

Don't quote Wikipedia, it's absolutely unreliable.

Quote from detail :

Don't quote Wikipedia, it's absolutely unreliable.

Partially accurate. Random people's opinions on Wikipedia may be inaccurate. Excerpts from published, peer-reviewed scientific papers (which are used as sources on all of the links in the post you quoted) are educated, informed and easily good enough for this debate.

As a person who has suffered badly from psycosys from thc I feel that mj should remaid banned.

Quote from amp88 :

Now you're back to missing the point again. If I had a teenage child (somewhere between 15 and 17, say but those are somewhat arbitrary) I wouldn't mind if they experimented with alcohol, cigarettes or marijuana. I wouldn't want them to become an alcoholic or a regular smoker (until they were of legal age to do so) but life lessons learned by the person themselves carry more weight than being told not to do something by a parent.

Interesting. First, until what age is it normal to live with parents and not work in your country?

If your kid comes home on all four, what do you do? What's a fair punishment and what's not? If a kid comes home with frequent hangovers, is it better to take action or let them grow and hope they understand things themselves and become responsible persons as you say?

It's fair to say that if there's no immediate consequence of alcohol abuse, the person doesn't learn anything.

Firstly, I have to note that you haven't responded to my last post about the health effects of the various substances. Does that mean you accept them?

Quote from detail :

Interesting. First, until what age is it normal to live with parents and not work in your country?

18, I suppose, but I'm not sure.

Quote from detail :

If your kid comes home on all four, what do you do? What's a fair punishment and what's not? If a kid comes home with frequent hangovers, is it better to take action or let them grow and hope they understand things themselves and become responsible persons as you say?

I'd ask them why they were abusing alcohol. I honestly don't know if I would even try to punish them.

Quote from detail :

It's fair to say that if there's no immediate consequence of alcohol abuse, the person doesn't learn anything.

I don't think it's fair to say there are no immediate consequences of alcohol abuse. If you actually read the short term effects of alcohol I posted above you'd see that there are consequences of alcohol in the short term.

My mum knows i smoke weed occasionaly, and have indulged in a few other drugs(pills and lsd)

In her words. "Its fine if you're just experimenting, but the moment you start doing it weekly and get addicted you're out of this house"

i think thats more than enough incentive not to **** up, i like having a home to live in lol

Quote from amp88 :

I'd ask them why they were abusing alcohol. I honestly don't know if I would even try to punish them.

See now with me it was the other way round, my parents actively encouraged me to drink when I was 16, and never said anything if I ended up ill from consuming too much.

Quote from no_one :

As a person who has suffered badly from psycosys from thc I feel that mj should remaid banned.

Why? Surely you've learned that this drug is one that really doesn't agree with you, so you choose not to take it anymore. There are people who can't drink alcohol at all either, due to serious health issues. Clearly it being illegal didn't stop you from trying it so what difference would it being legalised have made to you?

Quote from no_one :

As a person who has suffered badly from psycosys from thc I feel that mj should remaid banned.

As Bob points out that's a strange viewpoint. It's the same premise as someone saying "I'm allergic to nuts, if I eat them I'll die so they should be made illegal". Sounds silly, doesn't it?

Quote from amp88 :

As Bob points out that's a strange viewpoint. It's the same premise as someone saying "I'm allergic to nuts, if I eat them I'll die so they should be made illegal". Sounds silly, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. Marijuana is already illegal. It's illegal for that very reason. You can't remake it illegal, it already is. The ammount of people that have a nut allergy to a severe degree is low, the ammount of people that have alot of mental issues because of marijuana is alot more than a few and that's because ordinary people don't use marijuana. Ordinary people have some moral fibre. You can feed a child nuts, but you can't feed a child marijuana ffs. You're all starting to get on my wick, but then again, why should it, Marijuana will never be legal in my country. So I really do not care. Your opinions are based not on fact, but driven by the basis that you smoke it yourself.

But for christ sake, grow some stones and own up to the fact that it is bad for you and shouldn't be legalized. If it's already illegal, why legalize it only on the fact that tobacco and alcohol are worse? Tobacco and Alcohol are only mentally detrimental in a dependancy scenario. Marijuana on the other hand can produce hallucinations, paranoia, extreme lethargisism and lack of reality.

I'd rather have Tobacco and Alcohol legal than Marijuana, the fact is, not THAT many people smoke, smoking numbers are lowering, and too for alcohol, I've met alot of people that don't drink a drop, and in this country, I didn't think those kind of people even existed.

Quote from BlueFlame :

No it doesn't. Marijuana is already illegal. It's illegal for that very reason. You can't remake it illegal, it already is. The ammount of people that have a nut allergy to a severe degree is low, the ammount of people that have alot of mental issues because of marijuana is alot more than a few and that's because ordinary people don't use marijuana.

Proof? Up to 1500 people per year in the US die of anaphylaxis (which is caused by severe allergy to, among other things, nuts). How many people die per year because of severe allergy to marijuana? What is the rate of people who suffer severe psychiatric problems because who are marijuana smokers? What is the rate of people who suffer severe psychiatric problems who are not marijuana smokers?

Quote from BlueFlame :

Ordinary people have some moral fibre.

You're saying marijuana users have no moral fibre? Do you also think that atheists have no moral fibre?

Quote from BlueFlame :

You can feed a child nuts, but you can't feed a child marijuana ffs.

Agreed, no responsible person would give young children marijuana unless there was good reason for them to have it.

Quote from BlueFlame :

You're all starting to get on my wick, but then again, why should it, Marijuana will never be legal in my country. So I really do not care.

Well, that depends how long you live, but I feel marijuana will be legal in this country within the next 25 years. It was legal in the past, it's been banned for dubious reasons, it's still used for its beneficial properties (legally and illegally), penalties have been reduced in the near past for its possession and use.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Your opinions are based not on fact, but driven by the basis that you smoke it yourself.

You've provided VERY little in the way of facts in this thread. I will say again that I'm not currently a marijuana smoker. I'll also say again that people don't always fight for their own causes. White people fought, and died, to end slavery in the American Civil War.

Quote from BlueFlame :

But for christ sake, grow some stones and own up to the fact that it is bad for you and shouldn't be legalized.

It's also a fact that it's good for you. It's a fact that the number of people who get a benefit from it massively outweigh the people who it does significant damage to.

Quote from BlueFlame :

If it's already illegal, why legalize it only on the fact that tobacco and alcohol are worse? Tobacco and Alcohol are only mentally detrimental in a dependancy scenario. Marijuana on the other hand can produce hallucinations, paranoia, extreme lethargisism and lack of reality.

See above and my first post for reasons to legalise. You really should read the health effects of marijuana vs alcohol/tobacco I've already posted. You might be surprised by the FACTS in there.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I'd rather have Tobacco and Alcohol legal than Marijuana

Why (and provide some facts)?

Quote from BlueFlame :

the fact is, not THAT many people smoke, smoking numbers are lowering, and too for alcohol, I've met alot of people that don't drink a drop, and in this country, I didn't think those kind of people even existed.

Proof (of numbers and decline of numbers in marijuana smokers)? Yes, there are people in the UK who don't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco or marijuana. That has no relevance to whether or not marijuana should be legal.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Your opinions are based not on fact...

You're quite a hypocrite.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Ordinary people have some moral fibre.

Obviously not enough, as they wish to impose their views forcibly on others.

@Blueflame

Who are these "ordinary" people?

Are you claiming that all Cannabis smokers are in some way abnormal?


The vast majority of Cannabis smokers I've known (and I've known a hell of a lot of them) have been perfectly responsible, hard working people with family's who prefer to have a smoke or two and the end of the day rather than a drink. Is that not "ordinary" enough for you?

You seem base your opinions on stereotypes and clichés rather than personal experience and facts.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Marijuana is already illegal. It's illegal for that very reason.

It`s illegal for a reason similar to: how Nicolai Tesla was left to die, when it was found out he had plans for worldwide implementation of free wireless electricity. And so on;

Want studies? Here, studies. Be sure to download the PDF, and read all the footnotes. I mean, document. Or find negative studies and post them, feel free.

But yeah, it`s a drug and it`s veeery dangerous. Can`t you see that people are dead after smoking it for 40 years?
I`ve met a few, a couple of them in pairs. Of course, they were dead..ly inloved with each other and the plants.

And damn, amp88, I wish I`d have your way with words.

I'm sorry, but there is simply NO argument against legalization that cannot be somehow picked apart.

Although I am a bit more skeptical about legalization of other drugs, one thing I do know is that the prohibition of ANY substance does not correlate with a decrease in use of this substance. The war on drugs is simply useless, and proof of this can be found in how the price of every drug on the street has decreased in price over the last 20+ years. Supply is getting higher and higher, and along follows the demand.

Cannabis needs to be legalized NOW, and the war on drugs needs to end. How to handle the other drugs? Perhaps the answer can be found with more research. I have personally not cared to research any other topic than cannabis legalization.

PS. Stop calling it marijuana, it's a term made up by the US government during the early drug war to relate its abuse to mexican immigrants. Cannabis is the real name.

Alright, i have a question.


How do you people feel about the legalisation of MDMA?

Keeping in mind, that "Legal Highs" such as BZP/PPZ, 4mmc(Although these arent so legal now, they used to be up until recently) are ALOT more dangerous than MDMA?

There are plenty of legal highs going around in the world that, when mixed with alcohol (Or even nothing at all) can cause major heart problems and pulpatations.


Would it not be alot safer to legalize something which has proven to be safe in people without heart conditions?

Klutch, I agree on that also. I have personally never tried MDMA, but I still know quite a bit about it. Actually my mind set is that it's almost(?) NEVER worth it to legalize a drug, because it does not decrease use.

So absolutely, MDMA should be legalized too. Along with dozens of other drugs As that might actually decrease abuse of the hard drugs.

Legal highs are in most cases more dangerous than MDMA itself, and has caused more deaths.

Everyone knows if you have heart problems, taking an amphetamine is generally not a wise decision.

However, not everyone knows taking that Legal Herb High pill isn't going to **** you up more than a MDMA pill would. After all, its legal, it mustn't be worse than those nasty illegal drugs, right?
Along with that, Australia is over-run with BZP at the moment. Its legal in some countries, so its easily imported into australia. The cooks press it into pills and sell it off as MDMA.

This is EXTREMELY ****ing dangerous, most smart uses have test kits, but not everyone is a smart user. You hear a death on the news caused by ecstasy?
Chances are it wasn't MDMA, it was adultered with some from of BZP/PPZ/MZPP

If MDMA was legalised, all pills would be pure, you'd get less deaths due to adulterants.

The only problem with this is Long term affects in idiots that decide to use it every weekend. But really thats no different than if weed were to be legalised

Weed causes depression in long term use
MDMA causes depression in long term use

Weed affects your short term memory in long term use
MDMA does the exact same

Quote from RasmusL :

PS. Stop calling it marijuana, it's a term made up by the US government during the early drug war to relate its abuse to mexican immigrants. Cannabis is the real name.

In the UK cannabis has more negative connotations, so I prefer calling it marijuana.

Quote from Klutch :

Alright, i have a question.

How do you people feel about the legalisation of MDMA?

Please create another thread if you'd like to talk about MDMA. I'd like to keep this one about marijuana. Thanks.

Quote from BlueFlame :

But for christ sake, grow some stones and own up to the fact that it is bad for you and shouldn't be legalized.

Being bad for you is not reason enough. So many things are bad for you, and still legal: hamburgers, rock climbing, apple pie, driving a car...
To get anywhere in this discussion, you need to know how bad exactly the substance is, and how easy it is for a user to control the risk. If the risk is no higher than other, everyday risks, then we have no grounds to make/keep it illegal.

(At least, no rational grounds. Emotions play a big part in the war on drugs. Alcohol is less "scary" than cannabis because it has been part of Western life for many centuries, and thus seems easier to control. But the data shows it's a pretty hard drug.)