Quote from Gunn :

And if by chance your original goal was only to be miserable and drag others down with you - you've succeeded.

Congratu****inglations.

no offense, but you were the one who read the thread... and if by now you didn't realize this thread is one giant bitchfest, then i don't know where you've been for the past 6 months.

edit: why do you think scawen un-subbed from the thread?

Quote from bunder9999 :

no offense, but you were the one who read the thread... and if by now you didn't realize this thread is one giant bitchfest, then i don't know where you've been for the past 6 months.

I'm sure there's plenty of stuff you have no clue about. My whereabouts would be among the least of your problems.

Quote from Gunn :

My whereabouts would be among the least of your problems.

?

where did i say that i keep tabs on everyone? i'm not a moderator.

my point was, that among all the threads that have been open, closed, and merged since the VWS was delayed, you couldn't have not known the content of the thread.

Quote from Macfox :

Semantics. Ignoring customers = lost sales = no revenue. Those that have been around long enough know that customer engagement was regular and key to attracting the masses to the game early on.



No one disagrees with the complex nature of the physics. However there has been NO explanation regarding the explicit point about the lack of track development, let alone before any physics update plans/announcements.



That argument might have held true in the past when regular updates were released, but development has effectively stalled (by Scawen own admission). By definition you can't kill something that is dead. It really pains me to see this argument peddled over and over, when clearly it can't get any worse, given there's no promises, dates or deadlines.

There has been calls for extra man power for years, way before this current crisis. Each time its been strongly rejected, sighting code complexity, lack of documentation and handover time. And to a point that's accepted by the community when it applies to the code base. Yet these arguments are hardly valid where tracks are concerned. 3 or 4 years have past without a single track addition.

Unfortunately it's poor management, planning and foresight, that's allowed the game community to reach a state where it's crying out for content (paid or free) and being ignored.



If you're the glass half full type of guy, maybe? Personally it's a travesty and disservice to a game and community. So much opportunity and potential has been wasted. It's reached a point where ideology, ego and contempt for community and customers is a complete joke.

This is just one of 100's of threads of discontent over the years. The Dev's assurance is surely misplaced if they get any comfort from such threads. They only represent human desire to see what was, has or could have been.

Great post.

Its sad seeing the sim i loved and had so much fun with slowly fading away.

Frankly i dont even care about the so called updates.I can easilly fill my rather limited spare time with iRacing,netKarPro,BFBC2.

But imho it was wrong that the devs didnt hire or simply get help from the community,when many ppl offered to do so.Their denial brought us here.To a point where progress got slowed down and the end users left.

I dont known if LFS is dead but i surelly dont see great things happening in its future,when the opposition is clearly ahead.

Quote from Gunn :

@DarwinAce: I suggest you read the entire topic so that you have at least a basic idea about the subject. If you already did understand the topic you probably wouldn't have posted what you just posted. You wouldn't have needed to post it and you most likely wouldn't have wanted to either.

@ all other dissenters:
All LFS license holders have got exactly what they paid for, and the vast majority of us got a whole lot more.

People are frustrated/emotional/upset because they aren't getting what they want. I am most certain that the LFS devs can not ever give us all that we want. What the LFS devs have already created and continue to refine and to build on is very good indeed (otherwise all these people wouldn't be here getting frustrated and angry and demanding more). None of us would be here if we didn't already respect this sim, and none of us needed to be here in the first place.

LFS isn't all you want it to be? Can't seem to do anything about it? No crisis line to call? Can't find any community help groups? Running low on your medication? Then go and enjoy something else, because you certainly aren't enjoying yourself here. And if by chance your original goal was only to be miserable and drag others down with you - you've succeeded.

Congratu****inglations.

Its nice to feel smart isnt it?

Its harder to be one though!

Quote from Gunn :

People are frustrated/emotional/upset because they aren't getting what they want. I am most certain that the LFS devs can not ever give us all that we want. What the LFS devs have already created and continue to refine and to build on is very good indeed (otherwise all these people wouldn't be here getting frustrated and angry and demanding more).

I would of quoted the rest, but Rather have everyone re-read your post (On second thought maybe thats a good idea)

I think whats lacking and is shocking really given how this gem of software is developed is how a proportion of members contribute and some in doing so only make things worse.
Some really have in the past really put in the hours, some still are
Im talking about the coders the people running leagues, all the admins and forum moderators, and yes the racers.
We all want LFS to succeed, (although I do have concerns on how people justify demanding a patch/track/ etc)
Alot has changed since 2003, not just in LFS, the whole internet is different/ OS / Hardware and of course the competition.
Theres alot of opinions and concerns floating around, and I think alot of confusion created with the influx of new old.
Users inexeprienced with proccess that model of developement LFS uses (petervsp made an excellent post regarding this just a few back)

People complain that its slow and that others could assist, but the Devs wont allow this to some extents. (yes we know this, some may not agree. I just want to make a point here about the forums and how all this negativty is really quite counter prodcutive)
People communicate even when they dont try to, body language, behaviour etc. I remeber being around 5 years old, Being at my mothers "deaf club"
There was this old bean (bean=man), his name was Charlie.
Only a few people could talk to charlie, and for many years, this man and his expresions,
the joy and sorrow I saw in his face when he was talking. Was like mirror to your soul.
Now you may ask yourself, what is so special about charlie.
Imagine being born deaf, then going blind midway through your life.
Yeah its quite a different picture now you are painting perhaps.
I never really got round to asking the questions i asked myself much later in life. As charlie passed away before I had become a man.He died when i was approaching double figures and have long since forgoten now how to actaully use the language (mostly though contact on the hand)
I used to watch in amazement and wonder, later in life I did struggle with why he would want to wake up each day, Why persist in a reality in which you have very little feedback from. It was simple, people.
I grew up around a very close community, with deaf/hearing people of all ages/races.
So what has this got to do with LFS some of you may ask, possibly some of you are connecting the dots already.
My point is building on gunns points on bringing people down.
Why, how, when, what, where.
Instead of moaning about it, do somthing. If you really want LFS to succeed. Do you really think that by venting your frustraition and dismay, moments of rage and anger. This will make things go faster.
Emotion is contagous if not observed and realised for what it is expressing.

What I suggest to the moderators is give people a chance with this thread.
"If" a moderator could filter out the posts by the devs and keep them in here, remove the rest to another thread (for vws spam etc).
And Lets hope that people understand why charlie demmands deep consideration in communication.

Keep it constructive, Have more respect for your fellow. Even if they an Idiot behaving badly. Really people are like mirrors, this is how communication works, signals bouncing back and forth, relfecting suggestion with each transmission.

Maybe the moderators will take me up on the idea above. maybe they wont.
Maybe scawen will resubscribe will, maybe he wont.

Im not saying this thread is complete disaster there have been mm a few good points raised and debated in "segments"

Thanks for reading


Alan

This thread is like my 8 o clock waiters in the shop. They want the car done asap,but if something goes wrong,takes longer, they become retards sometimes. " i have to go now,i'll late from work" I try to work faster,but sometimes u just cant.

Quote from e2mustang :

This thread is like my 8 o clock waiters in the shop. They want the car done asap,but if something goes wrong,takes longer, they become retards sometimes. " i have to go now,i'll late from work" I try to work faster,but sometimes u just cant.

Maybe not retards, If I may expand on this, most peoples adverse reactions to negative situations all down to fear usually, in your case the driver late for work / fear of loss of money / repuation / job.
Money is what seems to be the main issue in everones life a dominating factor in happiness.
Somthing these days easliy confused with bigger better, the grass isnt always greener, to get to point using another cliche, you dont know what you have till you lose it.
And this is what alot of people are fearing, fear that they have lost the love, passion, addiction, kick from LFS.
The reason, the lack of a major update. I think alot of it is do to do with trust or the lack of.
If scavier had made regular posts regarding this, maybe this thread wouldnt be so rinsed in doubt. But let say they did, and LFS is still at z28.
Would you still be driving happy (not just you mustang, this really directed at everyone now: ) ) that because there is a post saying what part of LFS is being worked on because the devs let you in on every detail each update.
I think alot would say maybe yes, so why no updates.
Content is always being argued, look at how other platforms of software are made then publised before hitting the market.
Dont give everything away, now I know I am now progressing into speculative territory here. But Think loggically at the build and previous test patch phases to where we are now, and what is to come.
"Aha" I hear you say, well how would you know whats coming if the devs dont say.
To me this reminds me of from S1 going to S2.
There was info and clues on what was to come, but when it came

heres a Quote (original post here)

Quote :

Hello Racers!

The time has come to give you a precise date for the first public version of S2.

We have decided to release a FULL PUBLIC ALPHA version on Friday 24th June 2005!

By "alpha", we mean that everything is in place but not necessarily 100% refined or complete. So nearly all features that will be in the future Final version of S2 are there already, but there will be updates to physics, car models, track scenery, and refinement of features, between the Alpha and Final releases.

You will need an S2 license to unlock all the content, or an S1 license to unlock the updated S1 content. S2 users will be able to benefit from the automatic skin downloading, so we have provided a CMX Viewer with all the car models to help you make skins in advance. S2 users are now able to upload 20 personal car skins and helmet skins here: http://www.lfsworld.net/?page=skins (LFS World). Skin makers, please note that the RB4, LX4, LX6 and UFR models will be updated again before the Final version (but not before the Alpha version) and this is likely to affect your skins.

We have decided to release S2 in its current Alpha condition because we want the community to benefit from the progress. A lot of testing and refinement has been going on recently. We have been holding medium length races of 1 to 2 hours in the various different racing classes and it has been a lot of fun.

It's very interesting planning your strategy, including your fuel load, choice of tyres and number of pit stops. Sometimes a racing incident involving damage, excessive tyre wear or a puncture forces you to think fast and quickly open up the F12 screen to change your strategy or settings before you turn into the pit lane. Each beta tester arrived at the end of the race with his own unique story to tell.

The road cars are also a lot better than they were in S1, mainly due to the more complex tyre, differential and suspension simulations, and of course there are some new sports cars as well. We know there is high demand for this version in the community, and leagues waiting for something new, as the current S1 version is quite old now...

We expect to release the version in the evening on Friday 24th June. We expect a lot of downloading to be going on and things may get slow. We will have a BitTorrent download available, so if you want a fast download we recommend you have some BitTorrent software installed in advance. If you need to find out about a good BitTorrent program, you could ask on our forum. There's bound to be a thread on that topic soon.

Additionally, if anyone with access to a high speed server (100 mbit+) would like to help spread the load by mirroring http downloads for a day or two, we would be grateful if you could contact Victor using the "Contact Us" button.

Thanks for reading. We are sure you will enjoy the S2 Public Alpha!

Gentlemen, get ready to start your engines!

Some S2 features :

Further developed physics and multiplayer systems
2 new single seater racing cars (not for the faint hearted)
3 GTR racing cars of around 500 bhp (keep your hair on)
2 front wheel drive racing saloon cars
2 sports cars, one rear and one mid engine
1 1000cc front wheel drive road car (where's that corner)
Kyoto Ring, Japan - with an Oval configuration
Westhill, England - a high speed track
Aston, England - long and short configurations
8 S1 cars with graphical and physical developments
3 updated S1 tracks (Blackwood, Fern Bay, South City)
New objects added to the S1 Autocross arena
Yellow Flag and Blue Flag warning systems
Various types of suspension with realistic motion
Support for symmetric and asymmetric setups
Tyre wear, surface and and air temperatures
48 sampling spots per tyre allowing flat spots
Simulated and visible tyre deformation
Fuel usage, pit stops, speed limits and penalties
F12 Pit instructions system to change strategy
F11 Live settings : anti roll bar and brake balance
And more...

Maybe I do look to the bright side of things, even if its a train heading right towards me.

Heh ....

...

Wow, I'd forgotten the step from S1 to S2 and how much anticipation was around it, and what is was like the day it was released. I couldn't wait to get home from work that day and it didn't disappoint!

What a huge step that was. I guess that's all there is to say right now.

Waiting for a new major release of LFS is a pointless exercise. The people developing this product have demonstrated they have very little business and communication skills. Development skills however they do have, and therefore we have the current release which, is by far, the best online, multi player racing experience for its price to be found on the internet. So people, PLEASE give up on waiting for a new release and simply get online and race and enjoy. The beauty of online games is that the software is only HALF of the fun, the other RACERS make the game... I race at least once a week and get at least one amazing race in...

Who gives a monkey about the next release. I did, for a while, until I gave into the mentality of the development team who are doing whatever they please, even if it upsets their amazingly loyal customers. Race what we have now, enjoy it for what it is... the best online racing bar none...

If a new release comes, lets hope to god that they don't screw it up. Because you will be wishing you had what you have now

Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

Would you still be driving happy (not just you mustang, this really directed at everyone now: ) ) that because there is a post saying what part of LFS is being worked on because the devs let you in on every detail each update.
I think alot would say maybe yes, so why no updates.

Of course a little more update would be great,i even think if they would release things with lots of bugs,we would have less moaning and unhappy people here. there is a lot of bug in game anyway right? Anyway people should move on till the update comes,lot of them did,but we got many teens left over,who are the ones that bitchin. Just remember back to your teen ages,its just life.. your young,immature,you want your things. They need to get involved with life a bit more,go out have fun,get some gf,live. Thats what i did,moved together with gf,now im busy with life,and just simply dont care anymore about games. sometimes i go up and beat General anywhere and thats it :P

btw: "fear is the only enemy.. face the enemyyy!! "

Scawen!! tell us the progress or something like that!

Quote from rayrumbo :

Scawen!! tell us the progress or something like that!

If you're bored with the lfs demo, why not buy it
And I can personally tell you the progress. He is working on the tire physics.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Heh ....
I couldn't wait to get home from work that day and it didn't disappoint!

What a huge step that was. I guess that's all there is to say right now.

I have only mild depresing memories / I was in the middle of moving house and had NO GODAMN internet access when S2 alpha was publicly available.
I have however made up for that loss since.
But just to let you know I move house again maybe in september ......
Anyone want to bet I miss the next update?
Also whatever happened to that 1000cc FWD? hehehe

@ mustang, beat up .. .anywhere ...oh dear delusions of grandeur my dear. You know the score, name the time and place !!!!! No Inferno team love here now so you will recieve no quarter!!!

i know he is working in the tire physics but when will be ready the new track? it doesn´t need tire physics, and i have a count with s2, but when i enter here i am with the demo count

Quote from rayrumbo :

i know he is working in the tire physics but when will be ready the new track? it doesn´t need tire physics, and i have a count with s2, but when i enter here i am with the demo count

why wont u login with ur s2 account??

Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

@ mustang, beat up .. .anywhere ...oh dear delusions of grandeur my dear. You know the score, name the time and place !!!!! No Inferno team love here now so you will recieve no quarter!!!

lololo i even beat you on your own layout with any car :P

..no more love?

In my vision of the perfect world there was test patch released somewhere in July. Let's hope I'm a prophet.

Quote from Bass-Driver :

why wont u login with ur s2 account??

because when I go to this website I'm logged in with this and I am too lazy to change hehe

Quote from Amynue :

In my vision of the perfect world there was test patch released somewhere in July. Let's hope I'm a prophet.

But July which year?

Quote from amynue :

in my vision of the perfect world there was test patch released somewhere in july. Let's hope i'm a prophet.

2050

Quote from rayrumbo :

because when I go to this website I'm logged in with this and I am too lazy to change hehe

You should log in with your S2 account. There are big prejudices against 'demo racers' (sometimes justified too).

Quote from deggis :

You should log in with your S2 account. There are big prejudices against 'demo racers' (sometimes justified too).

yeah?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIYCrYvAAyU

Man these physics are so glitchy, cmon Scawen etc. etc. :P

Quote from IIIIIbarcodeIIIII :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIYCrYvAAyU

Man these physics are so glitchy, cmon Scawen etc. etc. :P

Tyre physics must be reworked! And look at the flying off objects, it shouldn't be like that!