Hi, first of all... sorry for my engilsh .

I would like to do a little suguestion about performance between NORMAL and HYBRID Tyres.

Since several months ago... I'm running with Normal Tyres in XFG/XRG in BL1 (Front and Rear).

Then... I decide to compare my sets with some Top Time Players sets.
Then I was very surprised when I discover that too much people uses HYBRID tyres in rear wheels in XFG case or 4 hybrid tyres in XRG case.

I use a SETUP ANALYSER PROGRAM to analyze the preformance of the tyres of some sets like WR set for example, comparing the performance and grip between Hybrid and Normal tyres. And the results were very very similar, something that I think that is wrong because the diferrence between these compunds would be more different.
What is the same... Normal tyres have a Grip coeficient of 0'9, and Hybrid tyres have a very very similar coeficient.

As result times with Hybrid tyres are absurd, because a Hybrid tyre can do same even best times in race/qualify than Normal tyres.

This should not be like this since an Hybrid Tyre is not for a full Tarmac race, the tyre must not be able to have so much grip, what is more... Hybrid tyres have a low resistance in tarmac than normal tyres... in consequence the speed in the straight line is higher.

With less resistance and same grip, times are obviously better in race/qualify.


So.... I would like to suggest a little improvement in Normal OR Hybrid tyres to obtain more difference between these two componds. More grip in Normal tyres or less grip in Hybrid tyres.


Thanks for reading, and I wait for your response.


PD: Scawen if you read this, and you whould can reply me... I wish you answer me although only write "OK". Thanks.

Seems to me that Hybrids should have a higher rolling resistance and less grip than the road super tires... not sure how to compare with normals, though.... Would a hybrid racing tire really be worse than an average street compound in terms of tarmac performance?

Hybrids as they are called in LFS would almost certianly follow the same characteristics as real tyres of this type, which means that they would be more grippy on tarmac, because these kind of tyres are of a lot softer compound than a standard road tyre would be, stickier tyre = more grip!

You've just asked a new tyre physics in improvement suggestions section. Now create two more threads and ask for VW Scirocco and Rockingham.

Quote from KiRmelius :

You've just asked a new tyre physics in improvement suggestions section. Now create two more threads and ask for VW Scirocco and Rockingham.

Don't forget the updated GTR interiors.

Quote from KiRmelius :

You've just asked a new tyre physics in improvement suggestions section. Now create two more threads and ask for VW Scirocco and Rockingham.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Don't forget the updated GTR interiors.

Follow the tread please, no trolls allowed

I think that the compounds should be softer than the road normal tyres, but the hybrid tyres got more draw in the tyre contact surface so, it got less grip than the road normal that was specially designed for tarmac.

Also, LFS warns if you use wrong tyres. "Warning : Rallycross tyres on road track"

I hope that this will be solved in the next patch... in the real life, you can´t use hybrid tyres in a full tarmac circuit (like rallies).

I think the same as Dalmako.

Quote from KassadGLA :

Follow the tread please

Was that an intentional pun?

Quote from Dalmako :

...I was very surprised when I discover that too much people uses HYBRID tyres in rear wheels in XFG case or 4 hybrid tyres in XRG case...

I thought people used Hybrid tyres because they made the smaller cars turn in a lot quicker (slightly drift) into corners and scrub speed off that way instead of braking so hard, if at all?

And what little you may lose on straight line speed, you more than gain in the corners.

I guess Scawen knows very well what he is doing with the tyre physics, and that we will see more great things come to LFS. Maybe not today but one day we will!

Suggestions like these, help improve the sim, and are therefor welcome I guess.

Quote from sinanju :

And what little you may lose on straight line speed, you more than gain in the corners.

I said that in straight lines the car goes faster with hybrid than normal tyres because have less resistance in tarmac.

It's true that in corners doesn't have so much grip... but it is "NO REAL" that in a tarmac circuit you can run faster with hybrid tyres instead normal tyres (wich are tarmac tyres), what is the same... doing better times.

In real world, It is like in a real full tarmac rally everybody uses hybrid tyres in their cars to go faster. This is ilogical. Everybody uses ROAD tyres for a ROAD stage.

Tarmac circuit ---> Tarmac tyres (in this case normal road tyres). And you should be able to do best times than using other tyres with a higher performance with regard to the others tyres.
Knobbly circuit ---> Hybrid or Knobbly tyres should be the correct choice. (and yes it is)
Mixed circuit ---> Hybrid tyres should be the correct choice (and yes it is).

Quote from rockclan :

I guess Scawen knows very well what he is doing with the tyre physics, and that we will see more great things come to LFS. Maybe not today but one day we will!

I know that Scawen is now improving the tyre physics... it is for it because I'm suggesting this thing.

Only for improve more and more every day which I think that it is the best real racing simulator of all times.

Great work to the team.

Regards.

Quote from Dalmako :

In real world, It is like in a real full tarmac rally everybody uses hybrid tyres in their cars to go faster. This is ilogical. Everybody uses ROAD tyres for a ROAD stage.

There are 2 main reasons why hybrid type tyres aren't used on tarmac rallies.

1. In rally, the top speed is very, very, rarely reached, so any added top speed of a low resistance tyre is irrelevant. However, the grip around corners is very important - road tyres have much more grip on tarmac than a low resistance tyre, so are faster in the corners where more time can be gained/lost.

2. Hybrids get hot on when sliding around on tarmac. Very hot. This reduces grip further and vastly reduces the life of the tyre. Tarmac tyres are much more durable on tarmac.

Quote from Degats :

There are 2 main reasons why hybrid type tyres aren't used on tarmac rallies.

1. In rally, the top speed is very, very, rarely reached, so any added top speed of a low resistance tyre is irrelevant. However, the grip around corners is very important - road tyres have much more grip on tarmac than a low resistance tyre, so are faster in the corners where more time can be gained/lost.

2. Hybrids get hot on when sliding around on tarmac. Very hot. This reduces grip further and vastly reduces the life of the tyre. Tarmac tyres are much more durable on tarmac.

This is exactly about he is complaining. The hybrid tyres don't get that hot in LFS, and tarmac tyres don't have (much) more grip in tarmac

Quote from Whiskey :

This is exactly about he is complaining. The hybrid tyres don't get that hot in LFS, and tarmac tyres don't have (much) more grip in tarmac

I've just done a test on KY2, 1 out lap, 1 flying lap, same rb4 setup but different compounds:

Road_Normals: Quite slippery in the out lap, so quite a lot of sliding. At the end of the hot lap, temps were almost ideal (50 degrees, bright green on hottest tyre).
Hybrids: Initially a bit more grip, so a much smoother out lap with little sliding, up to optimal (~50 degrees) just before the end of the out lap. By the end of the hot lap, temperatures were 80+ degrees, bright red and very little grip.
Road_Supers: Much more grip than either Normals or Hybrids, so a very smooth out lap. Optimal temperature (~60 degrees) throughout the hot lap.

In conclusion: Hybrids provide more initial grip than Road_Normals (probably due to a softer compound) but quickly get very hot and unusable. Possibly a little faster than Road_Normals over a single lap on a shorter/less harsh track, but they're far too hot to be of any use for longer runs. By the end of the 1 lap, Road_Normals offer significantly more grip due to the hybrids overheating.
Road_Supers (similar to those used in tarmac rallies and production car racing) consistently have much more grip than both Road_Normal and Hybrids.

That's pretty much the behaviour I'd expect tbh.

@ Degats, that is in a TBO, on a full tarmac circuit there is no other choice than roadsuper.

In the STD cars -insert s******s- there is, what can be seen as a problem. The hybrids heat up much faster but the performance does not drop off, when realistically(AFAIK) it should.

I'm sure Scawen knows what he is doing when it comes to this.

My guess is that;
The hybrids last so long on STD cars compared to TBO/LRF because there is no difference in the tyres model, such as the difference between the road normal and road super.

Quote from jakeeatworld :

@ Degats, that is in a TBO, on a full tarmac circuit there is no other choice than roadsuper.

In the STD cars -insert s******s- there is, what can be seen as a problem. The hybrids heat up much faster but the performance does not drop off, when realistically(AFAIK) it should.

I'm sure Scawen knows what he is doing when it comes to this.

My guess is that;
The hybrids last so long on STD cars compared to TBO/LRF because there is no difference in the tyres model, such as the difference between the road normal and road super.

You're correct regarding the road_supers, but I did test normals as well and there was a very noticeable difference between normals and hybrids.

Just did an 8 lap run at Aston Cadet in an XFG and the drawbacks of the hybrids are much reduced, so I see where you're coming from.

Presumably due to the lower weight, power and speed of the STD cars, it's a lot harder to get heat in the tyres, so you're going to be at optimum in the hybrids much earlier than normals (if ever). Hybrids at optimal do seem to grip better than cool normals - whether that's realistic or not, I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I did find that once the hybrids got to 70-80 or so the grip was a lot lower, but I couldn't get the normals that hot, even after a lot of excessive power understeer.

Seems like the differences are quite subtle on the STD cars, as they're not very hard on the tyres. How that would compare to real-world, I have no idea.

Quote from Degats :

I did find that once the hybrids got to 70-80 or so the grip was a lot lower, but I couldn't get the normals that hot, even after a lot of excessive power understeer.

Question; Why is it in demo servers everyone drifts with a Knobbly / Hybrid on the back, And either knobbly / Normal in the front, if they provide Less
Grip, I know you don't need to have wonder-glue grip but If It provides less grip, How do the drifters control speed well anymore? Doesn't a hotter tire lock up faster? (I guess I answered my own question In they lock up when they drift, But a longer more detailed answer would be nice.)

Simply put, less grip == more slide, so having rear tyres that have less grip would make it easier to start a drift.
Controlling it is just a matter of throttle control - and you need less throttle with slippery tyres, so you can cope with a less powerful car - it can be quite hard to get enough torque in the XRG to overcome the grip level of the normals and keep control, so less grip on the rear would make it easier. The normals have a rather fine gap where they're slippery enough for the XRG to easily break traction, but not so soapy they're uncontrollable.

Once they get really hot it can be very hard to hold the slide, but in my experience, you have to be well over 130 degrees in road supers for that to be a problem.

In cars with enough power to easily break the traction of the tyres (unlike XRG), it's usually easier to control the slide if the tyres have more grip.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Question; Why is it in demo servers everyone drifts with a Knobbly / Hybrid on the back, And either knobbly / Normal in the front, if they provide Less
Grip, I know you don't need to have wonder-glue grip but If It provides less grip, How do the drifters control speed well anymore? Doesn't a hotter tire lock up faster? (I guess I answered my own question In they lock up when they drift, But a longer more detailed answer would be nice.)

Well, the rally tires is easyer to heat up fast, in a underpowered car(XRG).
Hot tires = less grip
Less grip = easyer to control slide with throttle control
With little grip, and low power, you will not be able to heat them to the point of flattening(about 200 degrees I think).

I personaly, drift with normal tires, using high camber to make the rear loose, and heating the tip of the tires rather fast when using XRG.