I am not by any means suggesting that the front wing is illegal as someone would of noticed. However, I have noticed how much lower the red bull front wing seems to the ground than the other teams. From memory, i thought there was still the rule that the wing has to be so high off the ground or has this rule since been removed?
from what i read i gathered it was the standard FIA spec center section the row was about not how much the outers are dropping under load as they're tested for flex and have passed.
also red bull could just be running a suspension that colapses easier under load which would explain how in a lot of the pics the wing is lower than any other teams, that would also explain why the redbulls are not so affected by ride height when in qualifying with a low fuel load, in the early 80's when skirts were banned and a minimum ride height was first brought in a lot of the teams got round the reg by running variable rate spring systems so the car was high enough in the pits but the first layer of springing colapsed under the aero load by 60 mph.
other teams were even more clever, williams originally ran a sytem which lowered the suspension when the car was in third or higher till one had a pretty spectacular spin when it jumped out of fifth gear and the suspension raised itself up, brabham were just blatent about it, they fitted a lever in the cockpit to lower the suspension and when asked said it was a handbrake as the car wouldn't roll away when the suspension was dropped so the bodywork edges rubbed the track.
also red bull could just be running a suspension that colapses easier under load which would explain how in a lot of the pics the wing is lower than any other teams, that would also explain why the redbulls are not so affected by ride height when in qualifying with a low fuel load, in the early 80's when skirts were banned and a minimum ride height was first brought in a lot of the teams got round the reg by running variable rate spring systems so the car was high enough in the pits but the first layer of springing colapsed under the aero load by 60 mph.
other teams were even more clever, williams originally ran a sytem which lowered the suspension when the car was in third or higher till one had a pretty spectacular spin when it jumped out of fifth gear and the suspension raised itself up, brabham were just blatent about it, they fitted a lever in the cockpit to lower the suspension and when asked said it was a handbrake as the car wouldn't roll away when the suspension was dropped so the bodywork edges rubbed the track.
Rule 3.7.1
All bodywork situated forward of a point lying 330mm behind the front wheel centre line, and more than 250mm from the car centre line, must be no less than 75mm and no more than 275mm above the reference plane.
In other words, minimum clearance is 75mm, which is pretty small.
I have to admit im struggling to understand where the issue stems from, the images are fairly clear and appear to be quite obvious in their differences where other circumstances (such as fuel load, braking stage, camera angle... all which have been used to dismiss the initial photos) wouldnt create the extremes shown in those photos.
But what i dont get is that the Red Bull & Ferrari wings are mounted in a significantly lower position to begin with, if you look at the center of the front wing, and compare its distance to the floor, and do the same for the endplates, that difference between teams is probably undetectable from photos that size. So this 'flex' issue surely cant be detectable on them.
The significant difference between the clearance isnt from flex, its the fact that the RBR & SF wing in its entirety is positioned a couple of inches lower than on the McLaren & Mercedes. That instantly makes the images a little misleading at first glance, and harder to see any irregularity between them when trying to account for that difference.
Obviously the location the wings are at is above board, so what is it about these photos that shows something which has Mclaren baffled by how they're achieving such results? All im seeing is wings mounted lower which makes them closer to the track, and that has sod all to do with flex. The endplates seem to be the focus, but are they refering to the amount of bow across the whole wing being unusually large under high speed, or something completely different? The most significant difference in the photos is how high the whole wing is mounted, and for images so small nothing seems to be too obvious.
I genuinely cant quite grasp which specific item the fuss is about, theres obviously something there as Whitmarsh & Lowe arent newbies and they seem stumpt to how its done in a legal capacity.
But what i dont get is that the Red Bull & Ferrari wings are mounted in a significantly lower position to begin with, if you look at the center of the front wing, and compare its distance to the floor, and do the same for the endplates, that difference between teams is probably undetectable from photos that size. So this 'flex' issue surely cant be detectable on them.
The significant difference between the clearance isnt from flex, its the fact that the RBR & SF wing in its entirety is positioned a couple of inches lower than on the McLaren & Mercedes. That instantly makes the images a little misleading at first glance, and harder to see any irregularity between them when trying to account for that difference.
Obviously the location the wings are at is above board, so what is it about these photos that shows something which has Mclaren baffled by how they're achieving such results? All im seeing is wings mounted lower which makes them closer to the track, and that has sod all to do with flex. The endplates seem to be the focus, but are they refering to the amount of bow across the whole wing being unusually large under high speed, or something completely different? The most significant difference in the photos is how high the whole wing is mounted, and for images so small nothing seems to be too obvious.
I genuinely cant quite grasp which specific item the fuss is about, theres obviously something there as Whitmarsh & Lowe arent newbies and they seem stumpt to how its done in a legal capacity.
Ferrari wing is bound to do that, as he is behind another car, so the wing won't encounter as much air resistance, of course the wing will pivot down slightly or more, as the car enters the untouched air again.
Q. (Boaz Korpel – The Sports Channel, Israel) Rubens, everybody is wondering about the symbol on the top of your helmet which looks like the Star of David. You have a big community of fans in Israel, so can you solve this question for us about this symbol on the top of your helmet?
RB: The star first started with someone telling me that I should have something on the top. That happened in 1995, someone came to me and said 'someone in the sky is looking at you' and for me, I felt something good about it, and I put a star there, which you could call anything, but it's just a star. It was a five pointed star. After that, I made some changes because my energy comes from a six pointed star, not a five pointed star, and people aren't just associating that to the Jewish community. It is the Star of David but if you study everything worldwide it doesn't link straight to the Jewish community. I'm Catholic but it doesn't mean anything, it's just the fact that I'm a spiritualist and I believe in any points of goodwill. I basically had one thing for the start of my career in '93, '94, '95 and now it's just the energy from the six pointed star.
My Google Fu is strong.
So, the engine quota.
Anybody got any idea how the leading protagonists are doing in this regard?
Thanks
Anybody got any idea how the leading protagonists are doing in this regard?
Thanks
Gah this break is too long.
I agree
Thanks Bean0
Cosworth are the most reliable once again, it's just a shame they are down on power slightly.
The problem is not the mounting of their front wing, otherwise they would fail the scrutineering straight away. The current rule states the front wing must not bend over XXmm under a XXkg (I am not sure of the exact figures) to make sure it has enough clearance. However when the cars are going 150mph the front wings are taking a much higher load than they were subjected to during scrutineering (downforce is far greater than FIA's wing bending test). Most team produce their wing as stiff as possible to make sure they pass the test. But what Red Bull and Ferrari are making their wing just strong enough to pass the test, but weak enough for it to bend when the wing is producing a great amount of downforce. The result is a wing that wouldn't fail scrutineering, yet still bends under high speed which gives them a significant performance advantage.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php ... item.php?fes_art_id=41748
I used to like Ferrari, but as this season progresses, I am starting to hate that team. Ferrari used to dominate F1, but now they have become just a bunch of crying babies. They are always complaining when they aren't winning, and it seems they can't take any criticism.
Ferrari has criticised the new teams numerous times, complaining they shouldn't be in F1 (which in my opinion is totally bulls**t. The new teams are doing an incredible job, to be only 2-3s off the pace, when they didn't even have a car a year ago). Although the new teams are lacking in performance, at least they try their best every week and keep their mouths shut. Ferrari has shown how unsportsman-like they are this season with all their bitching and team orders. Frankly it's just embarrassing to see a historic name to be acting like this. I really hope they get penalised for their team order.
I used to like Ferrari, but as this season progresses, I am starting to hate that team. Ferrari used to dominate F1, but now they have become just a bunch of crying babies. They are always complaining when they aren't winning, and it seems they can't take any criticism.
Ferrari has criticised the new teams numerous times, complaining they shouldn't be in F1 (which in my opinion is totally bulls**t. The new teams are doing an incredible job, to be only 2-3s off the pace, when they didn't even have a car a year ago). Although the new teams are lacking in performance, at least they try their best every week and keep their mouths shut. Ferrari has shown how unsportsman-like they are this season with all their bitching and team orders. Frankly it's just embarrassing to see a historic name to be acting like this. I really hope they get penalised for their team order.
+ ONE MILLION.
Sorry for the caps but I seriously began to thought that I was the only one with that feeling.
I hope they get severe sanctions, seriously.
That said for me hammering new teams is quite a logical(but very dirty and unsportsmanlike) strategy to get what they want... making new teams loose credibility-->put pressure on the FIA and Bernie, so they won't help them if they get to strugle with money--> the teams might die in only a few years--> Slots open for a 3rd car, which is what Ferrari has been aiming for long.
C*nts:thumbsdow
Anyway:
Ouch! Well spot. But now should Ferrari praide itself for what they've done in 1975(?) with Regazzoni?
Lauda and the old guard at Ferrari have had beef for years, ever since the poor bloke decided to save himself by not racing in the rain at Fuji and lost the championship.
Ever since Brawn, Todt and Scumacher left Ferrari, the team has gone from being the effcient winners back to how it was in the bad old days, with plenty of arm waving and politics.
Ever since Brawn, Todt and Scumacher left Ferrari, the team has gone from being the effcient winners back to how it was in the bad old days, with plenty of arm waving and politics.
Yeah, i realised the issue the next day or something, i just couldnt quite work out what i was supposed to be looking out for at the time.
I havent kept up with things in here, but has anyone mentioned the F1 sites technical report on the Red Bull wing done almost immediately after Hungary?
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2010/835/780.html
Surely that last bit is absolute nonsense? The same weekend the FIA came out with the following:
So the FIA have now change the rules to allow them to test upto 100kg, the F1 site claims RB have had their wings tested at 200kg and it cleared, and yet everyone can see with their own eyes how much that front wing bows under load.
Surely the F1 site is talking out of its rectum? I dont see why they'd test it at 4x the limit, or how the hell it'd pass either. If it was and did, then whats the point of the F1 going to 100kg when clearly 200kg isnt enough to highlight what the RB wing is doing?? It all seems odd.
http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/ ... %93-red-bulls-front-wing/
This guy got some very good articles on F1 aero. He writes for the magazine Race Car engineering.
http://www.motorsport.com/news ... e.asp?ID=384468&FS=F1
Liuzzi, Kobayashi appear set to retain their seats for 2011. Heidfeld maybe in at Sauber?
Liuzzi, Kobayashi appear set to retain their seats for 2011. Heidfeld maybe in at Sauber?
Was kinda hoping Kobayashi would get a Renault seat, but Liuzzi does not deserve the Force india seat for next season at all.
I think Kobayashi's going to have to prove himself a little more to move up to a better seat, as much as I like the guy.
Agree on Liuzzi, but he must have some major $$$ behind him.
Agree on Liuzzi, but he must have some major $$$ behind him.
Liuzzi has done good stuff in the first GPs, matching Sutil's pace and getting some good points. I wonder what happened to him later in the season.
But why has he had the job in the first place? I'm sure there were "better" drivers wanting his job..
Formula One Season 2010
(1980 posts, started )
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