Been looking at my set up with Colcob's analyser and it has helped a bit.

But unsure on the differences setting up a rear engined car to a front engined.
Should the frequencies still be similar, even though there’s a greater difference in weight distribution front to rear?

Yep, that's the whole point of looking at frequencies instead of stiffness.

way off topic but did anyone see, in autosport, the dampers they are begining to use in f1 ?

basically a weight on springs inside the nose to damp out the cars oscilations rather than nromal dampers to damp out suspension

Quote from Bob Smith :

Yep, that's the whole point of looking at frequencies instead of stiffness.

??

Suspention frequencies are simply a guage of stiffness/weight,

a 1500kg car will have to have spring (wheel) rates of twice that of a 750kg car to attain the same frequency.

the same thing can be expected with the front/rear stiffness/weight balance

it's just a way of saying comparitively how stiff a corner/end is

I am finding that if i try to balance the frequencies the front becomes too soft / the rear to hard
Or I have to add loads anti-roll bar to font which takes the anti-roll/spring roll stiffness ratio to high

Just don't forget there any many factors influencing car balance. If you needs loads of understeer in the springs to keep the car stable, I suggest you look elsewhere in your setup for a problem. I haven't really played the GTRs in patch U, will have a play now. Don't forget the FZ50 GTR has a wider rear track than front track, so you'll need a little more at the front anyway just to be neutral (it's roll resistance that determines car balance, not just frequencies).

Spring Frequency relates to wheel rate. So if the wheel rates are the same then the theoretical ideal spring rates would be the same. Ofcourse you would be hard pushed to find two cars with exactly the same wheel rate.

Some general tips. The relationship between the spring rates and ARB rates front and rear determine the cars overall balance. Dampers affect how the car behaves during transition i.e under braking/acceleration and roll.

If you've got the balance of the car about right - i.e. spring rates and ARB settings, then small changes to dampers, springs or ARBs will make a big difference to handling.

If you find the car is oversteering just as you lift/hit brakes/let off brakes the chances are you are too soft on springs at the front or you need more front bump. Rear rebound can also affect this.

If you find the car pushes on all the time and you cannot get it turned in it may be too soft at the back, too hard at the front or you have too much front bump.

These tips assume that you have your camber angles about right all round.

what frequency is a good starting point for FZR?

Generally ideal frequencies for on track are believed to be between 90 and 120 cpm.

Quote from tinvek :

way off topic but did anyone see, in autosport, the dampers they are begining to use in f1 ?

basically a weight on springs inside the nose to damp out the cars oscilations rather than nromal dampers to damp out suspension

I expect thats because an F1 car has virtually no suspension travel. The tyre sidewall provides the only softening. That's why I guess they use this form of damping.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

Generally ideal frequencies for on track are believed to be between 90 and 120 cpm.

For a road going sports car, I would agree.
For a race car with downforce, you'll need stiffer springs. Try around 180cpm as a start (3Hz).

Thanks ,will try 3hz ,slightly more to front.
In regards to balance and roll stiffness , should I be looking at the percentage of roll stiffness (trying to achieve 50%)
Or should I be trying for rear roll stiffness/rear weight ratio to be the same as front ?

Quote from Bob Smith :

For a road going sports car, I would agree.
For a race car with downforce, you'll need stiffer springs. Try around 180cpm as a start (3Hz).

Dead right - completely forgot to account for the fact that the static wheel rates don't account for downforce at speed.

You'd need to work out what the wheel rates would be at a certain speed with whatever level of downforce you are running. Then you can choose spring rates based on the usual 90-120 cpm rule.

Choose the speed that you are taking the most important corners on the circuit at.

Quote from Turbo Dad :

Thanks ,will try 3hz ,slightly more to front.
In regards to balance and roll stiffness , should I be looking at the percentage of roll stiffness (trying to achieve 50%)
Or should I be trying for rear roll stiffness/rear weight ratio to be the same as front ?

That's personal preference m8. Depends on your driving style. I guess in theory the ideal is 4 wheel drive mid engines with 50:50 balance - maybe - maybe not. For a rear wheel drive car I personally prefer it to push on a bit so tend to run more stiffness at the front by increasing ARB. That helps it become more controllable under power when its oversteering. That's just my personal preference though. I aint the greatest driver in RWD.

Quote from Bob Smith :

For a road going sports car, I would agree.
For a race car with downforce, you'll need stiffer springs. Try around 180cpm as a start (3Hz).

Bob, I have read your Adv. setup guide, and found it extremely informational and well written. One thing I have a question about is the frequency you mention. Is there a formula to use I.e. 180=3Hz, is that 180/60=3, or is it more complicated. I have also d/l the setup analysers you had linked, and dropped my GTR times on Westhill from 2:02 down to 1:39, consistent over 10 laps.
Another question, setting the tire compound @ 85 degrees, the tires run @100. When I set them @ 100, they run@85. If I remember, fronts are 20.3 and rears are 23.8 lbs of air. Not at home, cant remember the rest of the susp settings. Both tire compounds or variations of them all yield the same results and lap times. Any suggestions?

PS also love the Gear ratio prog. Also helped improve my times. Awesome work.

Quote from MagicMarker27 :

Bob, I have read your Adv. setup guide, and found it extremely informational and well written. One thing I have a question about is the frequency you mention. Is there a formula to use I.e. 180=3Hz, is that 180/60=3, or is it more complicated. I have also d/l the setup analysers you had linked, and dropped my GTR times on Westhill from 2:02 down to 1:39, consistent over 10 laps.
Another question, setting the tire compound @ 85 degrees, the tires run @100. When I set them @ 100, they run@85. If I remember, fronts are 20.3 and rears are 23.8 lbs of air. Not at home, cant remember the rest of the susp settings. Both tire compounds or variations of them all yield the same results and lap times. Any suggestions?

PS also love the Gear ratio prog. Also helped improve my times. Awesome work.

If you're tyres aren't hot enough then reduce the pressure. I always aim to get the outside edge a couple of degrees below optimum on a straight. As you corner the temps go up a couple of degrees and then cool again on the straights. I always try and get the inside edge about 5-10 degrees hotter than the outside edge.

btw - on very smooth, fast tracks you could go as high as 170-180 cpm on slicks.

Quote from MagicMarker27 :

Is there a formula to use I.e. 180=3Hz, is that 180/60=3, or is it more complicated.

Correct 180 cpm (Cycles Per Minute)
therefore 180/60 gives you seconds
3Hz (cycles per second)

Aim to get tyres peaking at about 10 degrees above the optimum, or they'll get too cold on a longer race as they thin. If you're about 15 degrees over, try a touch more pressure (both front and rear to keep the car balanced).

Quote from Turbo Dad :

Correct 180 cpm (Cycles Per Minute)
therefore 180/60 gives you seconds
3Hz (cycles per second)

Ah ha! So a lower cycling susp. is smooth, and a higher one is the equivilant of a mexican jumping bean. So when Im hearing the car "hopping" or bottoming out, either too high a frequency and too low a ride height. Although Im sure low ride height is still attainable with the right stiffness/frequency. Awesome, and thanks you guys for pointing me in the right direction.
This is definitely the exact type of Racing Simulator I have been waiting to get my hands on. And to think Im only beginning to scratch the surface with it.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Aim to get tyres peaking at about 10 degrees above the optimum, or they'll get too cold on a longer race as they thin. If you're about 15 degrees over, try a touch more pressure (both front and rear to keep the car balanced).

So in theory, the 85 degree tire will work, just need to alter the pressure abit to compensate for the extra heat being generated. Have to stuff it into the .xls file and see what transpires.

Magic , have you used F1PerView or Analyse For Speed yet.
apparantly F1PerView can be used for checking suspension travel (and loads more) but i can't make head nor tale of it

Quote from Turbo Dad :

Magic , have you used F1PerView or Analyse For Speed yet.
apparantly F1PerView can be used for checking suspension travel (and loads more) but i can't make head nor tale of it

I have d/l F1perview, but everytime I attempt to record a lap, I wreck. And Im not sure how big the saved data file is going to be, then the replay of my wreck starts, and I get lost. However, now that Im home and can run good times, I might just record a few laps, and try to make heads or tails out of it. If I figure anything out, I will try to explain what Ive seen to you here. If I can, that is

Anyone here know where I can look up the wheel rates of the Q patch cars?

http://www.teamassociated.com/ ... arc/Handling.5.html#34216

What are D1 and D2 in the diagram in the link above? I don't think we can get those distances easily.

So why all the talk of spring frequency? I don't know how we can work them out if we don't know the wheel rates. Am I missing something?