Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

Thanks for clarifying the terms. But I do wish you would go into detail.

It's a proprietary application, so I can't get into details.

Quote :

Canned effect you discussed regarding hopping of the tyres.

Tire hopping wasn't the issue, but a more generic type thing where the model didn't realistically follow real world behavior in some boundary cases.

The tyre model atm is poor as no car would ruin the tyres in 3-5 laps, Especially a standard 100-200bhp car..

Quote from Foilpact :

The tyre model atm is poor as no car would ruin the tyres in 3-5 laps, Especially a standard 100-200bhp car..

The Tyres are far from ruined in 3-5 laps in XFG XRG on any track in LFS.
Again the same is said for LX4 + TBO With the right set and driving style again these can be held at a fairly fast pace for the duration of their life.

Yeah... Tyres last for hours currently. The temperature is another thing, it's pretty wrong.

lol "tire"

me personally Im not bothered about new scirocco or TYRES but the new track

Quote from brataccas :

lol "tire"

me personally Im not bothered about new scirocco or TYRES but the new track

Tire is how it is spelled in USA.

Quote from brataccas :

lol "tire"

me personally Im not bothered about new scirocco or TYRES but the new track

lol "track"
I'd love to see come new TRAKKS too, but the new physics is what I'm really hanging out for.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Tire is how it is spelled in USA.

Actually in all of North America it's "tire". I've never seen the word "tyre" before I joined this forum. In fact, Firefox reports it as a spelling mistake, it's underlined as I'm typing this.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

Actually in all of North America it's "tire". I've never seen the word "tyre" before I joined this forum. In fact, Firefox reports it as a spelling mistake, it's underlined as I'm typing this.

People who spell that way should be thrown in gaol.
You know, that big gray colored center for prisoners.

Quote from farcar :

People who spell that way should be thrown in gaol.
You know, that big gray colored center for prisoners.

gaol   
[jeyl]
–noun, verb (used with object) British jail.

Quote from JeffR :

Without getting into too much detail, this persons model is good enough to simulate complicated interactions like wheel hop from rear wheel tire spin, and the same changes made in the real world to fix the wheel hop issue also works in his simulation.

Modeling axle wrap is not especially difficult, and is completely separate to tyre modeling.

Quote from brataccas :

lol "tire"

me personally Im not bothered about new scirocco or TYRES but the new track

Quote from farcar :

lol "track"
I'd love to see come new TRAKKS too, but the new physics is what I'm really hanging out for.

let's make a Loop bro'

lol "physics"
I'd love to see the new FISIX too, but the new Sirocco is what I'm really hanging out for.

Quote from JeffR :

I doubt that any equation and/or table based approach is going to be able to simulate how a wide variety of cars and tires behave at the limits of traction. No matter how unpleasant it sounds, it seems that the equivalent of some canned effect is going to be needed to prevent cars from exhibiting unrealistic behavior when at the limits.

Taking a cue from the radio control model world, more and more computerized assists are being placed into model aircraft. Helicopters have had heading hold (these maintain orientation despite any side loads) gyros for yaw control for decades and more recently, pitch and roll have been added, which eliminates the need for mechanical fly-bars, making the helicopters more stable and at the same time more manuervable since the fly bar no longer limits roll and pitch response. Similarly model aircraft pilots are using heading hold gyros for yaw control during takeoffs to deal with issues like p factor and gyroscopic reaction from the prop during pitch changes on tail draggers.

Getting back to the tire model, a similar type of pitch, yaw, and roll feedback process in the car and tire physics model would solve some of the issues with unrealistic responses of a modeled car at the limits. Yeah it's a "canned" fix, but one that can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't think your analogies fit here. What you refer to are actually means of control, sort of driving (flying) aids, not something that alters a physical model to be more realistic (since there is no "physical model", radio controlled models operate in "the real world", surely you're not proposing to hack real physics to be more realistic ? )

Also, while it is true that we can't expect a model to be realistic under all circumstances, what you propose is just to change a model to fit a "special case" which effectively means that you create another model - which still cannot be completely realistic. This is just one step of an infinitely recursive process, which has to be abandoned somewhere anyway, so in effect you have unfortunately said nothing useful to Scawen..

Stated in other words: IF you have a model with some flaws AND you know what should happen at the flawed state THEN you can incorporate that knowledge, so you can make a model that fixes the flaw. If you DON'T know what should happen at the flawed part, THEN a "canned" effect will not make your model much more realistic since, as already stated, you DON'T know what should happen.

Quote from Falcon77 :

We can't expect a model to be realistic under all circumstances, what you propose is just to change a model to fit a "special case" which effectively means that you create another model ...

Without getting into a lot of details, the "another model" is more like a "canned effect" that operates at the macro level (entire vehicle instead of it's components). It may not be truly realistic, but it will keep or restore the similated vehicle within the operating range that the core model can emulate accurately, and the final combined behavior ends up being reasonably realistic with no user noticable transitions between the core model and the "canned effect" model.

Although not a great analogy, a racing game could use a classic Pacejka tire model, but that fails at near zero speeds, so using an alternate spring like model for near zero speeds with a smooth transition between the two models solves the problem.