most here are not moaning, they're mourning. Compared to those that got their licence back in '03 I'm still a noob, but even I hate to see such a great sim die a slow death

I'm completly okay with what I got for my money, but I'm sad when I connect LFS after almost half a year break and its the same servers on top again, nothing has changed.
LFS needs new content to hold its old community and stand in the race sim world.

It's good to hear things are still on track and under development

I wanted to write a meaningfull post about it getting done and the pursued of 'perfection', but I'm having trouble finding the right words to express myself. But I do want to say that this progress report certainly gave me the feeling that there are some really good things to come in the future of LFS. I know it's said a billion times before but we just need to have patiance and our 'waiting' will be rewarded

So Scawen, Eric and Victor, keep up the good work! Oh happy holidays and be carefull with fireworks and stuff but that goes for everyone here on the forums and byond!

Quote from Amynue :

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

Time for solution.
Some of you said it's A, some said it's B and some even said it's D...
I'm not Scawen and I didn't spend 2 years studying about tire physics so I'm not 100% sure about the answer, but in my opinion the correct answer is A - clockwise.
It's hard to see how does it deform because there is no texture or pattern at the tire, but as some of you noticed, tire is more thin at the left side and thick at the right:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5056/tyre04vv.jpg
That makes me think that if there were stripes at the tire, they would look like this:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4245/tyre04xx.jpg

Only Scawen know the answer.

Anyway, that picture shows a significant difference betwen old and new LFS tire.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4343/screens385kopia.jpg
New tire is able to deform in all 3 axes, while deformation in Z axis (as in above picture) is completely absent in old tire.
See by yourself:
(it's rear tire of LX6 with minimal tire presure)
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4554/screens381kopia.jpg - car doesn't move
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/373/screens383kopia.jpg - car accelerates

As you can see at the second picture there is completly no Z axis deformation, stripes on the rim line up perfectly with the ones on the tire.
Tire doesn't become thiner on the right side as it would in the new tire model.

Would be nice if Scawen could tell if anything I said makes any sense :P

@Drifters_only : I bet that you didn't play long enough to realise that these comboes are not enough. We are not asking for real cars nor tracks, just more of them. If you learn the longest variation of a track, then you will be able to drive all the 4-7 layouts, and its not a challenge anymore. Same with cars. I always used all of them and I don't say that i mastered all of them, but with some practice (5-6 hours) I can be on the top of the grid easily, on any combo.

Quote from Amynue :

snip

According to your theory, I would say counter-clockwise - the car is moving to the left.

It's nice to see some effort by Scavier to engage with the community. I'm sure the community at large appreciates this and hope to see this more often.

Quote :

The VW Scirocco and Rockingham have seemed quite close to release for some time now, but we decided to wait for the updated tyres because these things from the real world will be best experienced with the most realistic physics system. Eric has been working on some more S3 content but he would like to get nearer to finishing before we show any new pictures.

While the above statement alludes to a group decision, this contradicts previous responses about Eric's output by Scavier, where he said they each have independent control of their respective areas.

I fail to see the Eric's sense in holding back content. It's irrational and frankly a stupid decision business wise. It the biggest single source of community discontent with LFS and the key to any hope of reviving LFS.

Frankly it takes five seconds to post a screen shot or two, yet we've nothing in years. Not a single shread of evidence to support the claimed amount of new content on the horizon.

It's times like this when I feel for Scavier and Victor who reluctantly face the community and bare the brunt of Eric's stranglehold of LFS.

Quote :

Originally Posted by Amynue View Post
Some people in this thread seems to be unbelievably smart since they say 2 years for developement of the tire physics is way to long and they would do it faster, so I have a question for you.

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

A - The contact spot moves to the front upon acceleration and towards the rear upon braking.

:spam4::bewarespa:drink:

I'd say the wheel rotates counter clockwise. The tyre surface on the left is substantially thinner than on the right side, and considering the fact there's also fictitious force involved caused by the accelerating movement of the wheel that makes the tyre thicker on the right side, the answer is B.
When wheel accelerates, every point of the wheel wants to stay where it was before acceleration, that's why there's more rubber on the right.

Quote from pajkul :

I'd say the wheel rotates counter clockwise. The tyre surface on the left is substantially thinner than on the right side, and considering the fact there's also fictitious force involved caused by the accelerating movement of the wheel that makes the tyre thicker on the right side, the answer is B.
When wheel accelerates, every point of the wheel wants to stay where it was before acceleration, that's why there's more rubber on the right.

You just perfectly explained why the wheel rotates clockwise... Well done! The only thing that is wrong are your conclusions.

The fictitioue force is turned to the opposite direction to the movement of the wheel. If the fictitious force is turned to the right, then the wheel rotates to the left, thus counter clockwise. I have no idea what is not clear in my explaination.

The force deforming the tyre ISN'T the acceleration force. It DOES rotate clockwise, not counterclockwise.

The frictional force is working on the contact point of the wheel to the road, just like the propelling force is which "pushing" the car is you will. Both are working in the opposite direction of eachother while the propelling force wants the car to be moved and the frictional force doesn't want the car to be moved. Normally speaking while looking at the car as a whole, at a constant speed the resistance works against the movement of the car (in a straight line).

At acceleration on tire level however the tire needs to "grip" the surface of the road and effectively the friction produced by the tire moves the car in the direction it needs to go (either forwards or backwards). Looking at the picture you will see that the left side of the tire is thinner compared to the right side. The rim is pulling the tire if you will, and the contactpoints of the tire will stick where they were on the very first few miliseconds of acceleration, there is a delay to when the inner part of the tire moves and the outer part where it hits the track moves. Looking at the post amenyu made it confirms that.

The tire is pushing to the left on the track, on the picture. The frictional force works to the right and thats the direction the car is accelerating in. The tire is therefor spinning clockwise.

I think you were thinking about a car which is moving at a constant speed, but this is not the case here

Imagine it like that the rim is trying to rotate, torque is applied, and that the tyre is glued to the surface.

That's very close what happens really, torque is applied into the rim and friction between the tyre and surface converts angular torque into linear torque, which accelerates the car. If you accelerate the gum is flatten in front.

If you brake it's flatten in rear, this time the rim want's to stop and the tyre want's to keep rotating.

So it's accelerating clockwise (or braking counter-clockwise).


That's looking really promising btw. Just finish what you have planned. Comments about perfection and endless 'loop' it causes are quite funny, you really think scawen doesn't already know that?

I'm willing to wait, no matter how long as take, as long as you update graphics and stuff like that to match the current standard when it's finally finished. I can always iRace while doing so..

In case some people still doubt the wheel is rotating clockwise, here's a proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ug6w4ZjwVo
Take a look at 0:47, in this case the wheel rotates CCW and the thicker part of the tyre is on the left, so in the other picture, thicker part on the right -> wheel rotating CW

Yes, but isn't it because the wheel is spinning? But I am confused now :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... NZIHM&feature=related

This is the real-life equivalent of what Scawan has, I think. This is aimed more towards reliability and load capabilities, but about the same rig.

Quote from Bokujishin :

In case some people still doubt the wheel is rotating clockwise, here's a proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ug6w4ZjwVo
Take a look at 0:47, in this case the wheel rotates CCW and the thicker part of the tyre is on the left, so in the other picture, thicker part on the right -> wheel rotating CW

Thanks for the proof

Why is everyone so pleased to get this news from Scawen, its what he has been saying for about 2 years.

Nothing has been released and there in no release date given.

LFS was without doubt the best online sim but this patch (If it every comes) will be too little and too late for most teams as they have moved on as Scawen asked them to do.

Thanks, now I understand the problem.

Quote from birder :

Why is everyone so pleased to get this news from Scawen, its what he has been saying for about 2 years.

Nothing has been released and there in no release date given.

LFS was without doubt the best online sim but this patch (If it every comes) will be too little and too late for most teams as they have moved on as Scawen asked them to do.

Same questions pop out of my head, and yet we are the trolls here. How about fanboyism ? That's not better either.

... Please, stop telling us that your work is close to be finished! WE CANNOT BELIEVE YOU. You told us that the Scirocco will be released at December the 19th, 2008!!. And now?? IT'S STILL NOT released. And we're not happy about that. All we want is that you release some kind of beta, or atleast!, im repeating, ATLEAST a video or some screenshots. That would be good enough to keep our heads up. IF you have problems, why don't you just take some help of good coders?! I'm sure there are many people that would help.

I know the days, when i started to play LFS, (in year 2005). I had alot of fun. Servers were full, people were kind to everybody, nobody was complaining about something.

Now, have a look of these days! All you read in the chats is, insulting, complaining, reporting somebody. It just makes no fun anymore!

I wish you would understand it... Merry christmas and a happy new year...

P.S: That "Merry Christmas" in the Server list wont make us happy. Just let you know.

It's just funny

All you trolls have been trolling for not getting any updates on stuff, and even now when you have been explained very detailed things that they are still working on and what has been done, you just troll and are not happy.. I guess it's the way life goes.

Cool story bro. Or should i say the King of trolls? Somehow you like saying trolls eh.

Quote from vistaman :

... Please, stop telling us that your work is close to be finished! WE CANNOT BELIEVE YOU. You told us that the Scirocco will be released at December the 19th, 2008!!. And now?? IT'S STILL NOT released. And we're not happy about that. All we want is that you release some kind of beta, or atleast!, im repeating, ATLEAST a video or some screenshots. That would be good enough to keep our heads up. IF you have problems, why don't you just take some help of good coders?! I'm sure there are many people that would help.

I know the days, when i started to play LFS, (in year 2005). I had alot of fun. Servers were full, people were kind to everybody, nobody was complaining about something.

Now, have a look of these days! All you read in the chats is, insulting, complaining, reporting somebody. It just makes no fun anymore!

I wish you would understand it... Merry christmas and a happy new year...

P.S: That "Merry Christmas" in the Server list wont make us happy. Just let you know.

Shut up, OR at least speak for yourself only.

I don't care that you're here from 2005. Start doing your homework if you're so bored.

If he wants to play LFS, why can't he play properly ?