Quote from IlGuercio :

Is this an advertising lesson?
You see, things don't always go good and well and if something goes wrong people have the right to say it, especially because they're part of the community, like you are.
If we want to be precise positive comments do not speed up the development as well so i can't see what's this "positiveness" about.
Should i pop a Mumm because LFS is stuck with the same content since 2008?
I guess not and even if they don't care (i am sure they don't, and it's clear) i still want to point that out.
I don't like the way this is done and there's no way to be offended just because all you want to hear is positive stuff.

For starters, nothing.. has gone wrong.
Secondly, anyone's positive comments, while no they will not speed up anything, keep the mood positive of all of the people that view the forum.

Think about it like this; when you wake up in a good mood, you're all happy, brushing your teeth, walking out the door, and then to find out all of your work buddies or friends are mad, by the end of the day, you'll be in a bad mood.

People react in relation to the people around them; if the comments start getting negative, that is all we will see.

And where's the fun for some moderator having to go through and prune a thread?

This thread has relatively nothing to do with actual progress; one post does, and that is Scawen's. All the rest is lounge talk really.
I mean, I'm pretty sure the developers are well aware how little we have received in the past few years; instead this is saying 'hey, we are still alive, we are still working, just a heads up on where we are.'


As stated before, LFS doesn't need to be marketed.. I mean hell this is a forum, why would you market to your own game's forum? If people are here, that means you marketed somehow in the right place to begin with. Advertising here for LFS doesn't get anyone anywhere, so no, I am not advertising.

I'm not offended by negative comments at all, this thread is not about me, has nothing to do with me, and is no way personal. What becomes a problem though is when serious word fights occur on the internet.. which do happen; even then, I'm not offended, but that's still work for someone to put up with on their free time.

Anyways I could go on this forever.. it would be cool if we could restrict people to one post per thread.. that would be interesting lol

I would make mine one hell of a post.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I would make mine one hell of a post.

... and you just wasted it.

... oh wait.

Oh man, i can't say im surprised to see this thread digging itself deeper and deeper still, but reading (futile zillionth repetitions
of same ideas) i see one main aspect many dont seem to grasp:

LFS IS A CAR SIMULATOR.

No one ever implied that this was a customer service simulator. It's easy to sit at your PC and find flaws in everything,
we can all do that, yet we dont because some of us realise that the devs arent out to piss people off. They are trying
to make the best sim they can. THAT is the reason we are all here. Yes, we DID notice its taking time.

You've all had a product for the money you spend (imo a good investement),some even use it for free, it works fine as is,
it had many updates (which, i repeat, sigh, MANY other games dont do for as long as LFS has). How many of you are
demanding support for 10 year old games ?! Just the fact that we are all here still waiting just tells Scawen that we DO
indeed want the upcoming updates and WILL be around. There is nothing left to say that hasn't already been said and that
Scawen isnt aware of. Furthermore, nothing you can say will change anything. Accept it, be 'zen', go play outside, socialize
(many seem to need to practice that part). Yes, its taking long, but deal with it. IM SURE you've lived through worse.

Like XCNuse mentionned, as moderators it is our JOB to see that things dont turn to personal insults and such, it has nothing
to do with being a fanboy or denying reality.

One last thing, Scawen DID listen to the community (and probably regrets it lol) by posting this update. Still, some are never
happy and have this habit of always looking for flaws and/or are generally negative.

Ok, now go find flaws in what i said (even though i just wrote this real fast on my lunch break..) and feel almighty for doing so.

Don't worry, i still wove you guys.

Quote from Fonnybone :

i see one main aspect many dont seem to grasp:

LFS IS A CAR SIMULATOR.

No one ever implied that this was a customer service simulator.

im afraid youre wrong
first and foremost lfs is a product and equally important lfs is a tiered product with the last tier not even out yet
what this means is that the main goal of lfs is to make a profit/living and the second goal is to bind customers so they will upgrade to the higher tiers later on
and while i dont have any sales figues for s1 and s2 (although im absolutely willing to bet that sales are down from previous years) i have my own perspective that i know is shared by a large number of s2 owners which is that ill have to think about buying s3 if it ever comes out as opposed to bying it right off the bat as i would have done years ago

so basically lfs is currently failing in at least one of its goals and im fairly certain in the other one too

Quote from Shotglass :

so basically lfs is currently failing in at least one of its goals and im fairly certain in the other one too

You don't know the goals of LFS.

Quote from Intrepid :

You don't know the goals of LFS.

If that wasn't their goal they wouldn't be here.

come off it Moderators don't stop us moaning it's passing the time away. lol

Quote from speedykev :

come off it Moderators don't stop us moaning it's passing the time away. lol

Yes, we are quite aware of that, heck, we do it too sometimes.

I never said i liked waiting so long for this update. I was asking for 'controlled' modding back in the beginning
and it's still nowhere near. There are many things i'd do with LFS if it was MY baby, but it's not.

It's clear that everyone is just stuck on their positions and whatever anyone says, will continue thinking THEY are
right and some even seem to think they are owed something. Honestly i dont care. Make a poll and be done with it :P

Scawen gimme my 'host scruteneering off' button NOW !!

Now all i need is to ask this repeatedly and argue vigourously with everyone who doesnt agree.
Oh wait, i don't have the patience for that...

I think he's kind of right in a way.

LFS IS a product.. but.. I don't think we are the customers. No seriously, think about it; why else would Scawen put so much time and effort into making this model absolutely perfect? If he wanted to sell it as a game, he could easily do that.. you just have to market it correctly.

Sure, it's a game, we've all paid for it, and a lot of people still play it. But I think it goes deeper than that; I see us (game buyers) as temporary income. When he's done with this model he can market that; solely the engine of the game.. I'm pretty sure he can find plenty of companies (think F1 teams) that are willing to pay a little more than gas money (..uhm.. not their fuel costs; our fuel costs lol, bad example..) for a perfected physics engine.

Just a thought.

Hi again,

well what I am afraid this simulator/game (depends how you see it) has failed in few things and yes I will create some short list where in my opinion things went wrong:. The list could be really long...

- frequency of reports updates is getting lower and lower
- content update missing
- at some point it seems this "product" has grown overs devs heads and they lost the point to hire some people to get it moving forward in the still same speed.(Some people can flame me or laugh at me but Mark Zuckerberg the founder of Facebook got it right...he stilll lead the ideas how facebook should move forward/be updated/still interesting for people but he realized out early enough he cant do all himself with his "friends").

The more complex LFS will be the more time Scawen will have to spend on it and I dont bealive he is able to keep the speed of progress anymore due to this and it will be worse and worse the LFS will be bigger. I am not happy to say it but it seems devs lost a bit of the part where they have been able to reflex themself and get moving things nicely forward. Thats how I really see it.

- communication with comunity got worse

I dont understand why some people can not admit things in LFS are not going so well anymore. These threads would be not so long if there would be updates and we would get new things - its a simple fact. People would rather reports bugs and would be interested in racing then spending time here.

Its better to be positive like Xnuse said and I do this in my personal life as well but at some point you can not stay positive forever about something which is not going well. Simple fact.

The devs are not gods, they are the same people like you or me but to me it really looks they failed at some things and it does not look to me anymore they are able to admit it themself.

Not happy myself being negative about LFS and devs but there is a little things about to be possitive on the other hand.

And last thing, please stop people calling moaners. Should we not be nice to each other here and listen to each other rather because this is also why so many people came here to find what LFS is about because of the great and nice comunity LFS has (I wanted to used past sentence but I still bealive this is great comunity). Everyone can bring here their opinions because each of you have your own angle of view and personal preferences. So its not bad to be both positive or negative unless you start insulting each other. If you say something good about LFS its nice support for devs and indication this is probably we did good with LFS, if its bad comment then its also good because it is something for devs to start thinking about it "did we really make it wrong or not".

I dont like poeple when saying things the way its only devs who should decide....seems some people never heard about brainstorming ever.

P.S. hi to all I have not seen for ages :-)

Quote from devil 007 :

hi again,

well what i am afraid this simulator/game (depends how you see it) has failed in few things and yes i will create some short list where in my opinion things went wrong:. The list could be really long...

- frequency of reports updates is getting lower and lower
- content update missing
- at some point it seems this "product" has grown overs devs heads and they lost the point to hire some people to get it moving forward in the still same speed.(some people can flame me or laugh at me but mark zuckerberg the founder of facebook got it right...he stilll lead the ideas how facebook should move forward/be updated/still interesting for people but he realized out early enough he cant do all himself with his "friends").

The more complex lfs will be the more time scawen will have to spend on it and i dont bealive he is able to keep the speed of progress anymore due to this and it will be worse and worse the lfs will be bigger. I am not happy to say it but it seems devs lost a bit of the part where they have been able to reflex themself and get moving things nicely forward. Thats how i really see it.

- communication with comunity got worse

i dont understand why some people can not admit things in lfs are not going so well anymore. These threads would be not so long if there would be updates and we would get new things - its a simple fact. People would rather reports bugs and would be interested in racing then spending time here.

Its better to be positive like xnuse said and i do this in my personal life as well but at some point you can not stay positive forever about something which is not going well. Simple fact.

The devs are not gods, they are the same people like you or me but to me it really looks they failed at some things and it does not look to me anymore they are able to admit it themself.

Not happy myself being negative about lfs and devs but there is a little things about to be possitive on the other hand.

And last thing, please stop people calling moaners. Should we not be nice to each other here and listen to each other rather because this is also why so many people came here to find what lfs is about because of the great and nice comunity lfs has (i wanted to used past sentence but i still bealive this is great comunity). Everyone can bring here their opinions because each of you have your own angle of view and personal preferences. So its not bad to be both positive or negative unless you start insulting each other. If you say something good about lfs its nice support for devs and indication this is probably we did good with lfs, if its bad comment then its also good because it is something for devs to start thinking about it "did we really make it wrong or not".

I dont like poeple when saying things the way its only devs who should decide....seems some people never heard about brainstorming ever.

P.s. Hi to all i have not seen for ages :-)

+1

Some people have short memories. (28th June 2008, 01:55)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=842674#post842674

Quote :

Today's Test Patch - XF and XR Interiors
Hello LFS Racers.

I'd just like to make a small announcement about some updates in a test patch that is planned for release today, and also a few words about progress and future updates.

Today's test patch will include updated interiors for the XF and XR (GTR and road) cars.

These caused some hotlaps to go out of sync due to things like the driver being in a slightly different position, so we took the opportunity to move (and lower) the centre of gravity of all the GTR cars and the XRT and RB4 to improve handling and hopefully improve class balancing. The XRT and RB4 have also had some small improvements to the rear suspension that make them nicer to drive. When Patch Z is released, the existing hotlaps for eight of the cars (XFG / UFR / XFR / XRT / RB4 / XRR / FXR / FZR) will need to be deleted.

While most people will be happy to see these improvements, we predict that some will be disappointed that the other GTR cars are not yet done. But don't worry, the FZ updates are near complete and we are keen to get that released along with the FXO updates as soon as possible - but not in time for Patch Z which will look very much like today's test patch and should be released next week.

The remaining GTR updates are part of the needed updates for LFS S2 to lose the ALPHA tag. Some other updates that should mostly be done to get out of ALPHA are :

- Improve collision physics
- Break off wings instead of bending
- Finish and release Westhill updates
- Improve track shadow rendering
- RB4 / UF1 / UFR interiors

I've noticed some discontent about the rate of progress and all I can do is assure you that no-one wants LFS out of ALPHA more than we do! Of course, by updating and releasing the clearly unfinished things mentioned here.

EDIT : For HOSTS only - the dedicated host is now ready for you to start your Y30 hosts.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=44910

Well that's it, I hope you enjoy today's test patch. There are plenty more improvements to come!

- Scawen

Quote from Macfox :

Some people have short memories. (28th June 2008, 01:55)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=842674#post842674

two years and a half is not that short

If Pearl Jam had more members maybe they could release a new album every 2 weeks too. So what? More releases aren't a sign of life or quality.

How anyone can say LFS is failing I do not know. Unless you speak to the developers themselves you can't possibly know their aspirations and goals for the sim. Anything can be 'failing' once you stick on your own expectations, but that's irrelevant, especially when you come from a point of zero experience.

"I've noticed some discontent about the rate of progress and all I can do is assure you that no-one wants LFS out of ALPHA more than we do! Of course, by updating and releasing the clearly unfinished things mentioned here.
"

Quote :

- RB4 / UF1 / UFR interiors

I remember Scawen saying that he was doing the UF1 interior to build up his skills at working with the editor.

Victor should make a video of Scirocco with new tyre at Rockingham using his LFS Record. That would visualise Dec 2010 Progress Report

Quote from Intrepid :

You don't know the goals of LFS.

and of course you do?
the main goal is obviously to make a living for 3 people and their families
suggesting anything else is preposterous

Quote from Shotglass :

and of course you do?
the main goal is obviously to make a living for 3 people and their families
suggesting anything else is preposterous

I am sure for talented people like Scawan there are more lucrative avenues they could go down to secure a stable income than developing a car simulation. There is, I speculate, a more fundamental motivation to creating something like LFS than the pursuit of pure profitability. While for LFS to remain a sustainable project there has to be revenue streams, but is that alone their main goal? I don't KNOW! Neither do you, or anyone else on this forum know. So to use the term failure in regard to LFS is just stupid, and naive.

That's my main objection - the term 'failure'. And for anyone to suggest they know a 'better way' is even more preposterous because they haven't even attempted their own simulation. Very few people ever have even tried.

Quote from Amynue :

Victor should make a video of Scirocco with new tyre at Rockingham using his LFS Record. That would visualise Dec 2010 Progress Report

It's such a simple thing they never thought about it.
Ah, in b4 we don't have a nice tyre model so we can't let you see what it looks like now.

Quote from Shotglass :

and of course you do?
the main goal is obviously to make a living for 3 people and their families
suggesting anything else is preposterous

+3

Quote from Intrepid :

I am sure for talented people like Scawan there are more lucrative avenues they could go down to secure a stable income than developing a car simulation. There is, I speculate, a more fundamental motivation to creating something like LFS than the pursuit of pure profitability. While for LFS to remain a sustainable project there has to be revenue streams, but is that alone their main goal? I don't KNOW! Neither do you, or anyone else on this forum know. So to use the term failure in regard to LFS is just stupid, and naive.

That's my main objection - the term 'failure'. And for anyone to suggest they know a 'better way' is even more preposterous because they haven't even attempted their own simulation. Very few people ever have even tried.

I guess i should start complaining about Berlusconi, even if i didn't vote for him, since i am not a politician.
LOL.

Quote from Intrepid :

If Pearl Jam had more members maybe they could release a new album every 2 weeks too. So what? More releases aren't a sign of life or quality.

How anyone can say LFS is failing I do not know. Unless you speak to the developers themselves you can't possibly know their aspirations and goals for the sim. Anything can be 'failing' once you stick on your own expectations, but that's irrelevant, especially when you come from a point of zero experience.

Clearly the devs don't think there is an issue. Everything is okay (aspiration/goal wise) apparently if their posts are to be believed.

But that's irrelevant from a customers point of view, which is clearly being expressed here. Expectations generated are very much the doing of the devs. They certainly weren't conjured up out of thin air, so labelling them as "your own" is just nonsense.

Regardless of who's expectations, aspiration and goals, the obvious fact is, the once thriving community has evaporated due to neglect. That's a big failing in the eyes of many disappointed (ex)LFS players here, who are concerned about development and the future of LFS as a whole.

Quote from Intrepid :

I am sure for talented people like Scawan there are more lucrative avenues they could go down to secure a stable income than developing a car simulation. There is, I speculate, a more fundamental motivation to creating something like LFS than the pursuit of pure profitability.

im not surprised that you dont immediately grasp the allure of starting a business and being your own boss while doing something you enjoy which is the fundamental motivation
all of that however doesnt take away from the necessity of having enough income to support your family

Quote from Shotglass :

all of that however doesnt take away from the necessity of having enough income to support your family

What the devs earn, and how they then choose to invest their money and time has absolutely nothing to do with you. That's their problem, and does not need to be discussed by anyone in a public forum... it's downright disrespectful apart from being totally irrelevant!