The frightenning thing is those that said they would/do aren't professional karters at all, just club racers
illepallEDIT: Just looked at your sig and it certainly seems you know about karting
The frightenning thing is those that said they would/do aren't professional karters at all, just club racers
illepallEDIT: Just looked at your sig and it certainly seems you know about karting
Did you really take this sentence completely out of context, and then interpret is as meaning "The marbles are there because of Montoya". If so, maybe less time on track, more in the classroom would be a good plan
1) No marbles as it was lap1
2) Rosberg had every right to that corner, he was there 1st. It was Montoya that jumped off the curbing, and managed to escape only temporarily mind you, before his car's damage showed itself. Usually in open wheel shunts, the car in back gets the worst of it. That was an overly aggressive move from someone whos got to show what hes got since he has no contract signed as of yet for '07. And that kinda driving aint gonna get one either.
more proof that it is slow guys in T1 that cause the accidents
http://www.dragon-karting.com/tempimages/flip.mpg
put that in real player, and see the guy who rolls has to swerve to avoid the slow guy.
i would have rammed him personally, instead of swerving.
http://www.dragon-karting.com/tempimages/flip.mpg
put that in real player, and see the guy who rolls has to swerve to avoid the slow guy.
i would have rammed him personally, instead of swerving.
lol. it seems you're a little obesessed with slow guys causing accidents
.but honestly, I'd say it's the 71 causing the accident. He wasn't paying close enough attention to the guy in front of him, and when he noticed that he was about to hit him, he swerved too violently and hit the guy next to him. as a result he flipped. it looks as though the slow guy in the blue overall was only trying to avoid the one with yellow helmet who was all over the track. But of course, I'm not a real race driver, so what do I know
just what you did to me and others last night.............
I cannot see the video, but why are you going to fast into turn 1 that you cannot slow down? If you are in the back and you hit someone in turn on then it is your fault. You know turn one is coming up, you know you are at the beginnign of the race on cold tires, you know there are slower cars in front of you, why are you in a mad dash to fill every open space in turn one?????? The point is to finish the race above all else.
Dendy, your obsession with the idea that slow guys cause accidents would gain a lot of credibility if you personally would set a good example of how fast guys don't cause accidents. You seem like a friendly enough guy but whenever I have been on the track with you I have been forced to give you a wide berth. I don't think I'm the only one.
Definitely. I watched it quite some times in slowmotion. Mister 71 didn't pay attention, braked too late for that situation and just got what he asked for. That's what I call natural selection. Hopefully he didn't damage the kart of the other more senseful drivers.
Vain
i will second that.
i dont wish this to turn into a witchhunt. im far from the best racer, ive caused accidents, but im not the one preaching on here how to race.(stones and glasshouses spring to mind)
i got so annoyed last night at a certain persons standard of driving that i sent them a PM to let them know what i thought.
it took a bit of doing, because their "race name" is different to their LFS name......i wonder why that is????
at the end of the day we are all human, and all make mistakes, for me simply hearing "sorry" is enough to put things right.
because my m8 calls himself belly boi so i call myself dendy boi for a laugh!!!
No I'm getting at the point you made quoted below :
You say that if what Coulthard said is correct about the marbles then most of the blame lies with Montoya ...
illepallMy point was is theres no reason for any of the blame to be put on Montoya for the conditions of the track. Rosberg knew the condition and if the marbles affected him shouldn't have stuck in there ...
I wasn't saying that Montoya was responsible for putting the marbles of rubber on the track
Keiran
I think a lot of people don't use look left/right when turning in on a corner.
How many times have you been alongside someone going into a corner and they turn right in on the apex?
And then, they didn't see you so they assume it was your fault, like you rammed them from behind or something.
How many times have you been alongside someone going into a corner and they turn right in on the apex?
And then, they didn't see you so they assume it was your fault, like you rammed them from behind or something.
There's lots of debris off the line at the start of a Grand Prix. F1 isn't the only race of the weekend, there's many different classes racing around that track.
Rosberg lost the line, you have no right to the corner once your off the line. Montoya had him into the braking zone and Rosberg acknowledged this by giving Montoya room, at this point Rosberg had lost the line and should have yielded. I think Rosberg had a lot of weight on his shoulders after ruining Webbers lap and just tried to hold in there.
What are you taking about, the only damage done was to the nose. The reason he retired was because he hit `the wall of champions.`
It amazes me how people complain and complain about the lack of overtaking and how the drivers don't take enough risks. Yet when Montoya is charging he becomes stupid and overly aggressive.
When I race, I race aggressively in real life and in LFS (although only with people I know who will respond correctly in LFS). That's part of the thrill of racing is having a hard thought out battle.
Keiran
This was posted on the Atlas F1 boards.
Rosberg gave Montoya room going into the right hander (barely).
Montoya lost control and steered into Rosberg while trying to regain control.
Starting to go off topic here now.
Rosberg gave Montoya room going into the right hander (barely).
Montoya lost control and steered into Rosberg while trying to regain control.
Starting to go off topic here now.
IMO, Monty had the corner, but off course, Rosberg shouldn't back out. And that's why they collided. Racing incident.
It's not OT. That's exactly what this thread is about: Overtaking.
And I must say, Rosberg really did not give much room, but if Montoya had turned in a little more (which he probably tried but couldn't due to the curb which unsettled his car), there would have been just barely enough room for both of them. So, yeah, racing incident, of course. But that was clear all along, as the incident never was under investigation.
And I must say, Rosberg really did not give much room, but if Montoya had turned in a little more (which he probably tried but couldn't due to the curb which unsettled his car), there would have been just barely enough room for both of them. So, yeah, racing incident, of course. But that was clear all along, as the incident never was under investigation.
(thisnameistaken)
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by thisnameistaken
I notice a lot of the guys arguing that not giving the outside guy racing room is proper overtaking are karters. Whether or not that is legal in a kart depends on the track, series etc but generally, karters drive like that because it is allowed and in some classes, the only way to pass. It is significantly less likely that that would be allowed in club racing in the US- stuff costs more, so racing room is pretty much given. In the SCCA at a regional race, if someone held the outside and there was a wreck, the inside guy would get DQ'd or even lose his liscense for that! Ok, maybe not at the runnoffs but anywhere else, certainly. The point I'm trying to make here is that in real racing, it depends on the series officials and drivers what is acceptable and what is not. What would fly in F1 might not in ChampCar or Grand-am, as the latter two have cracked down on "avoidable contact". I think a good rule of thumb is that you can make somene hang a wheel off, but any more than that is excessively aggressive.
I would put Senna's 100% comitted pass in that category, because it leaves no racing room should his opponent refuse to yeild. I think that if you can get along side someone like that you will likely pass them in the end anyways, so leave them room.
I would put Senna's 100% comitted pass in that category, because it leaves no racing room should his opponent refuse to yeild. I think that if you can get along side someone like that you will likely pass them in the end anyways, so leave them room.
i havent seen the F-1 footage (just those pics) but i think F1 is a really bad comparison because those cars are optimized to the point that there is really only one clear line. if you go off that line you are toast. thats why no one passes, everyone is set at the limit by a computer. screw modern F1. We need to go back to cars like this:
edit: heres one with the audio
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-17994254184349724
imagine montoya, alonso, and schumacher duking it out in cars like those
edit: heres one with the audio
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-17994254184349724
imagine montoya, alonso, and schumacher duking it out in cars like those
Another thought just crossed my mind when I was walking the dog:
Montoya is pretty far on the inside approaching the turn, which therefore was pretty sharp for him, much sharper than for Rosberg, obviously. Yet, Montoya was going the same speed if not faster than Rosberg all the way into the turn. So, the question would be, how could that possibly work out? I guess it couldn't and I therefore think, Montoya was going too fast and was way too optimistic in attempting to pass there.
Montoya is pretty far on the inside approaching the turn, which therefore was pretty sharp for him, much sharper than for Rosberg, obviously. Yet, Montoya was going the same speed if not faster than Rosberg all the way into the turn. So, the question would be, how could that possibly work out? I guess it couldn't and I therefore think, Montoya was going too fast and was way too optimistic in attempting to pass there.
@Drinklime: We hopefully will be back to such, in 2008, provided the points system rewards overtaking 
Thats the most obscene rule I've ever heard on overtaking ... the guy on the outside is putting themselves at risk. Every single racing series I've followed the rules are the same on overtaking, nearly every major sport is covered by the FIA and MSA anyway. The guy on the inside has the racing line and the guy on the outside should yield or stupidly try stay on the outside (something which most racers will not do because you'll leave the door wide open for others).
Montoya would have made the corner had Rosberg backed out. Would have made it even with Rosberg beside him had he not had to hit the kerb so hard. Montoya was committed to the corner and Rosberg saw it coming but didn't react in the way he should have.
I'm not fussed really about the overtaking issue. The only thing I'd like rid of is TC. Personally I just love seeing these guys build such awesome cars. Nothing seems to be impossible to them theres always a solution or a way to bend the rules and it's just fantastic to think how do they come up with these ideas. You think people would've thought 10 years ago that F1 cars would be hitting over 200mph and reving to 19 000 odd RPM with V8s that are lasting two Grand Prixs ? Not a chance.
Keiran
The only reason montoya lost control was because Rosberg had just slammed into the side of him!
I'm really not understanding this thread now. People are arguing against the most text book overtaking move in racing...diving up the inside. There is frankly no other way to safely and regularly overtake another driver. You can occassionaly go round the outside, but it's super risky as you're relying on the guy on your inside not understeering into you. I just don't understand how anyone can say that going up somones inside is dangerous and that the person on the outside shouldn't yeild. It's nuts. You go away and ask any racer his opinion on what you're writing and they'll laugh in your face! There would be no race without it!
Well mate....I guess you must never overtake anyone! That's as close as you're gonna get! He was 3/4s of the way along Rosbergs car!
(thisnameistaken)
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by thisnameistaken
I can vouch for this as I think I was the guy in front. Kev is cleaner than a clean thing in a very clean place.
Sadly I can vouch for this too.
As for the Montoya photos, I agree -- if I was approaching any LFS chicane and the car positions looked like shot 1 in that montage, I would back off. I guess I can imagine going for it if I absolutely knew and respected the person in the car in front and knew that they already knew I was there, but even then I think I'd wait for a better spot.
Overtaking
(146 posts, started )
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