Imho we should be proud of the product the Scavier team has managed to do so far.
Seeing the developers as a group of 3 persons plus testers is a fact that
should be kept in mind when moaning about the (slow) progress.

The motivation of Scawen to write all the progress reports and the further
development to make the game closer to reality is amazing.

Track-wise and car-wise the game does not need more combinations.

Every single update to the game in future can really be regarded as obtaining
bonuses because the S1 and S2 content will be updated and people
having these licenses don't need to pay for this.

Quote from tristancliffe :

What attracted me to LFS was not that it was 'different' (that was a bonus), but it was the first racing game I played that felt like a real car to drive. And that was during the very imperfect S1 days. I have yet to play anything that feels so realistic, with the possible exception of netKar Pro in some, but not all, circumstances.

I agree. 'Different' it encompasses all these. Nothing remotely came close the LFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS doesn't need lots of cars and tracks to be successful. It doesn't need the best graphics. It doesn't need the most accurate tracks in the world. Those things are for bigger, more expensive sims and games, with bigger teams of people. LFS has never tried to compete with that, because it's a 3-man team set up because they wanted to get away from big teams, corporate deadlines and all the stuff that goes with big-time game development. That's why they don't want to hire more staff, or use community help, because ultimately Scawen would have to manage people, which he doesn't want to do.

Sure it doesn't need GT5 scale cars and the vast majority don't expect that, but there are many categories that aren't catered for currently.

Why would you have to manage people with community help with content? The time and effort involved wouldn't be any more than what is currently done with InSim.

Besides... The bulk of complaints are about stale content. Scawen has made his reason clear, which you have pointed out, but the reasons behind the lack of content updates is a real mystery. Most are happy to wait for physics updates. Having multiple content developers doesn't pose the same management and technical challenges as with code development. The reasons for not releasing more content have never been made clear, mainly due to the recluse nature of Eric.

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS is all about the physics. They are its raison d'être. Get them right - and huge teams are unlikely to help with this, as traditionally tyre physics have been a one-man show even in massive software companies - and people will come and play. They might not show it off to their friends, who generally like to be impressed with graphics and sounds and features. They might not play it for 'fun', as realistic is rarely 'fun' on a computer. But they will buy it, play it, and probably take it seriously.

Sure it's one of the big selling points, but alone it means little with the mechanisms (as in content) to experience it, much like having a motor without the car.

What evidence backs up generalising tyre physics is traditionally a one-man show?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sadly, the drifting and cruising part of the community tend to cast a poor light over the whole scene, even though some drifters and cruisers are wonderful, intelligent and capable people - the masses of those groups are not. They are chavvy, stupid, and have as much skill as a mole on a unicycle. They don't take it seriously, and they don't care as much about physics as about smoke, drift angles (no matter how unrealistic), and stickers on back-to-front.

But there's plenty of people here that are happy to use them a reference, that LFS is going strong and there's nothing to worry about.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Can you blame Scawen for becoming a recluse here? People moan about progress reports and progress itself. When he does create a patch or write a report, people initially thank him, and within a day they are moaning again about promises that were never made. You might say the problems are self made, but I don't think they are. Scawen works how he works, at a pace that suits his life and his goals. Standard business models don't apply. The customer is not always right. He has no obligations to provide one more character of code to anyone. The trouble is that the community moan and moan and moan and complain and swear and become really rather rude (excessively, given that this is just a computer game and doesn't actually matter in the slightest). If people spoke to me about my passion like that, then I'd not want to talk to them either. Why give the morons and bullys that 'know best' the time of day. It won't shut them up.

Promises, expectations, whatever. To say the community created this problem is just plain wrong. This may seem harsh, but you reap what you sow. Seeds were planted and it wasn't managed at all. Credits to Scawen, he has since admitted this, but you have to dig around in the forum to get a reasonable perspective of where LFS is.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Of course, the moaners don't think of themselves as moaners. They see themselves as soothsayers - bringers of truth to the community about how shit Scawen is as a person and how poor LFS is in terms of polygon counts compared to Monsters Inc. They probably won't even realise I'm referring to them here. They want want want, and are unable to understand or accept the very premise that LFS is built on - Scawen's will to work how he wants to work rather than how other people want him to work.

Every forum has them, but just because their approach is immature or offensive or unreasonable, isn't grounds to ignore their complaints, which often has some basis of merit.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Until people get that they will moan. Many people here do get that, and either sit back smugly in the knowledge that they can wait or try to defend LFS (and get called fanboys in the process - one of the least intelligent arguments in the world). At the moment the moaners outnumber the supporters.

That may seem like a bad thing at face value, but if you think about it, it's really amazing that people give a f#ck enough about the game to come here and comment.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm not surprised Scawen keeps his distance.

The developement and engagement died off way before the so called "era of moaning" began.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Interesting how rFactor2 has only just started modelling tyre temps position, contact patches etc. They make a new game, and it's 6 years out of date before they finish it. Ha ha ha!

Only if LFS had the number of players that rFactor has, then this whole thread wouldn't exist.

Quote from Paulovic :

Track-wise and car-wise the game does not need more combinations.

You must be new here.

Quote from Macfox :

Only if LFS had the number of players that rFactor has, then this whole thread wouldn't exist.

Yes? Lots of racing going on there?

2broken: as I said, there are fanboys here too.

Quote from Macfox :

You must be new here.

This isn't relevant, is it?

I've been racing since 2005 mostly offline and I don't post that
often. So your conclusion is a bit off-topic.

My personal opinion is that we rather need physics improvements than more tracks.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Yes? Lots of racing going on there?

Yes

Don't believe it. Or the serverspy tool is outdated and reporting not everything. Where can I get an overview like we have on LFSW?

I can only echo what Tristan has said.

Despite not having any investment or ownership of LFS, people think spending 20 or so pounds licences them to constantly tell the developers how to do their job. I am not sure what people think £20 actually entitles them to. Admittedly we've all done it at some time or another, but the internet & certain forum members should have matured enough by now that we've all learnt our lesson and 'grown up' a bit.

This old argument again

Seriously, people are willing to pay for content at this stage. May be that's the plan

Quote from Intrepid :

Despite not having any investment or ownership of LFS, people think spending 20 or so pounds licences them to constantly tell the developers how to do their job. I am not sure what people think £20 actually entitles them to. Admittedly we've all done it at some time or another, but the internet & certain forum members should have matured enough by now that we've all learnt our lesson and 'grown up' a bit.

So... what does it entitle me that 20 pounds or so for?
Why wouldn't I be 'allowed' to voice my opinion here?
One thing is to come here and 'demand' something, other is to voice your opinion, which is apparently considered n most cases as 'moaning'.
For one, yes.. development is nonexistant for last few years.
Yes, I got what I paid for, and I got actually more than I paid for, if I take in account how much I played it.
But, wanting something *new*? Why is that 'wrong', or even 'wrong' to mention?!
We want to play this game, but as with any game, it does get 'old' with time, and requires refresh. Refresh which developers need to make. Refresh which we'll gladly pay to play.

So, in which part here we're not, apparently, entitled to comment upon this?!

You missed the fanboy memo and the attached code of LFS forum ethics?

Don't worry I missed it too.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Don't believe it. Or the serverspy tool is outdated and reporting not everything. Where can I get an overview like we have on LFSW?

Maybe there is a better option but I use the ingame server list for reference, I can tell you from my experience and from links for leagues that friends send me.

Touring Car Legends, Spa and grid of 40+ is a dream come true. I know that some servers in LFS are also full but if you look only at active F1 leagues i believe you'll find more than in LFS altogether. And I dont even like open-wheelers that much.

Not so long ago I said that LFS community in Slovenia died. It is quite the opposite with every other simulation. We have championships in rfactor, race (wtcc and now stcc2) and we keep track of iracing. Your experience may be different but there is no way you will persuade me that LFS has more racing than rfactor atm. For more than 2 years I avoided other sims because LFS seemed perfect and even if it is not I would still race in LFS. And my main problem is that I like racing with my friends and I just hate to try new things. It took me more than 2 years to apply for an international league and now I'm loving it. CTRA was perfect; once you got past a couple of crashers there was only pure racing in front of you - and I got that feeling two weeks ago in FRL after a long, long time.

This is all very subjective, I am aware of that. But then again, if someone like me started to search elsewhere... I don't need new content - the problem is that every other sim has it and it is dragging people away...
Btw, wanna race sometime? I'm good enough that I won't embarass myself and bad enough that I wont win

Quote from Nick7 :

For one, yes.. development is nonexistant for last few years.

OH MY GOD.... another idiot.

Quote from Paulovic :

I've been racing since 2005 mostly offline and I don't post that
often. So your conclusion is a bit off-topic.

^ Help me understand (Join Date 2009) + (Racing since 2005 offline).....

You can't possibly be serious.

Quote from Macfox :

You missed the fanboy memo and the attached code of LFS forum ethics?

Don't worry I missed it too.

:hbomb:


Why don't you just leave already.

Quote from CodieMorgan :

:hbomb:


Why don't you just leave already.

Through the same door as you did?
Last OnlineFriday, 14 January 2011, 23:57 at [LTC] Live To Cruise

The thing that worries me a bit is I really really hope the new tyre physics are a definite improvement over the old ones. Surely after a few years coding they will blow everything out of the water but there's the chance we all hate them.

Sorry that sounds a bit negative. But we really need these physics out in the community, get them as good as they can be for now and then move on to other new features. The possibility's for this game are huge if only the 3 devs are willing to keep on improving it. I hope they get back the enthusiasm they used to when I first found the game.

IIRC Scawen was fairly close to completion so surely he can give us a rough idea if we should count on waiting another 6 months or another 2 or 3 years??

Even if he went out and said the tyre physics will be released next week and then due to circumstances they were delayed, would it be possible for any more moaning than there already is??!

Here's to hoping the devs give us some kind of idea when lfs will have something new for everyone to enjoy.

Quote from Macfox :

Only if LFS had the number of players that rFactor has, then this whole thread wouldn't exist.

LFSworld shows the last time you were on a server was 2008. if only you were as eager to race as you are to moan... looking at your stats, you've hardly played LFS. since LFS Desktop began, this is what you've got under your belt.
Last race information: (16:25 - 04 Jul '08)
Travelled distance: 7552 Ml
Fuel burnt: 5227 Ltr
Laps: 2759
Hosts joined: 254
Races won: 52
Second: 66
Third: 73
Finished: 408

if only Rfactor servers had users like you, the servers would be empty, but the forum would be full.

Quote from dadge :

LFSworld shows the last time you were on a server was 2008. if only you were as eager to race as you are to moan... looking at your stats, you've hardly played LFS. since LFS Desktop began, this is what you've got under your belt.
Last race information: (16:25 - 04 Jul '08)
Travelled distance: 7552 Ml
Fuel burnt: 5227 Ltr
Laps: 2759
Hosts joined: 254
Races won: 52
Second: 66
Third: 73
Finished: 408

if only Rfactor servers had users like you, the servers would be empty, but the forum would be full.

Internet Tought Guy Eh??

How about you take in to consideration, that back in 2008 S2 was pretty fresh, it's not 2011 and nothing new has come to LFS.

Next time you decide to be a tool, Use your brain before you open your mouth and maybe avoid that kind of situation next time.

HURRY UP WITH LFS DEVELOPMENT UPDATES!!!!

Quote from edge3147 :

Internet Tought Guy Eh??

nope. why did you find the need to write as a Canadian? even if i was an "internet tough guy", WTF can you do about it?

Quote from edge3147 :

How about you take in to consideration, that back in 2008 S2 was pretty fresh, it's now 2011 and nothing new has come to LFS.

How about you take in to consideration, that back in 2008 a race was still a race. it's now 2011 and guess what, a race is still a race. did you buy your license for the racing or because of the average graphics? and are you sure nothing new has happened? maybe you just haven't patched your game. if so, who's the tool now? oh, and i fixed your typo. only because it made you look like you had a very little understanding of the concept of time. no need to thank me.

Quote from edge3147 :

Next time you decide to be a tool, Use your brain before you open your mouth and maybe avoid that kind of situation next time.

Next time you decide you want to look smart, remember that i typed this post and didn't speak it. i did all this with my mouth closed.

Quote from edge3147 :

HURRY UP WITH LFS DEVELOPMENT UPDATES!!!!

lucky you said that because the Devs were actually waiting for you especially to say that. i'm sure we can expect an update any minute now. thanks for that.

Quote from dadge :

nope. why did you find the need to write as a Canadian? even if i was an "internet tough guy", WTF can you do about it?

Oi, I'm pretty sure the fact he got a spelling mistake means that he is in fact American. Not to mention have you known Canadians to be very agro?

One funny thing i noticed is that most of the fanboys replying here havent raced since a long time, i wonder why as they claim this game is still so good?

one thing i've noticed is that if you don't claim LFS to be dead, then you're labelled a fanboy. i haven't raced in about 8 weeks. but i've been on the drift servers about 2 weeks ago. i've also been playing Rfactor (sp). not once have moaned about the lack of releases because i know it will probably have the opposite effect.
i'm a glass half full kinda guy.

Quote from ldriver :

One funny thing i noticed is that most of the fanboys replying here havent raced since a long time, i wonder why as they claim this game is still so good?

Fine, as you wish, LFS is still an awesome game

Quote from ldriver :

One funny thing i noticed is that most of the fanboys replying here havent raced since a long time, i wonder why as they claim this game is still so good?

What I find funny is the assumption that if you're not playing on line, then you're not playing.

Quote from ldriver :

One funny thing i noticed is that most of the fanboys replying here havent raced since a long time, i wonder why as they claim this game is still so good?

Because racing in real life is better, but quite a bit more time consuming. When I do come back to LFS I'm afraid it's 99.9% offline for me. However, I still play sims periodically - LFS and nKP, so I'm not totally absent.