see this good guy, bad guy thing is another aspect of WWE im talking about.
This will all be over with when we hit Daytona.
The biggest difference between btcc and NASCAR is that btcc is just really rude driving. If a btcc driver makes a move it's either leave room or crash. In NASCAR is you block someone, you make that person mad and he decides to pit maneuver you into 5 other bystandards then it's your fault for making him mad in the first place.
In the btcc video Neal and Plato drove very rudely. But Neal could have easily pitted Plato and he didn't and Plato turning Neal was purely because Plato wasn't giving up the line for ANYTHING.
I'll use a non-sonoma example for NASCAR. In NASCAR, Carl Edwards waited a full lap to turn into Brad which caused Brad to lift in the air. At martinsville, Tony Stewart's brakes suddenly faded and he turned into Ricky rudd. Tony apologized over the radio yet rudd still decided to wreck him. Now at Sonoma, Greg zipadelli told logano that "you aren't a man if you don't wreck"
So how in any way shape or form is this attitude towards each other the same in Btcc, or even v8 supercars? V8S drivers rub and bump all the time yet there isn't a single revenge wreck I've seen in 2010 and 2011 so far. In fact I'd say that sometimes v8 supercars have more rubbing than a NASCAR race and they race on some of the most unwieldy tracks ever.
Maybe NASCAR drivers should watch some v8 supercar races on how to race really rough and tough without using their nuts to do the thinking
In the btcc video Neal and Plato drove very rudely. But Neal could have easily pitted Plato and he didn't and Plato turning Neal was purely because Plato wasn't giving up the line for ANYTHING.
I'll use a non-sonoma example for NASCAR. In NASCAR, Carl Edwards waited a full lap to turn into Brad which caused Brad to lift in the air. At martinsville, Tony Stewart's brakes suddenly faded and he turned into Ricky rudd. Tony apologized over the radio yet rudd still decided to wreck him. Now at Sonoma, Greg zipadelli told logano that "you aren't a man if you don't wreck"
So how in any way shape or form is this attitude towards each other the same in Btcc, or even v8 supercars? V8S drivers rub and bump all the time yet there isn't a single revenge wreck I've seen in 2010 and 2011 so far. In fact I'd say that sometimes v8 supercars have more rubbing than a NASCAR race and they race on some of the most unwieldy tracks ever.
Maybe NASCAR drivers should watch some v8 supercar races on how to race really rough and tough without using their nuts to do the thinking
F1 + Lewis?
Neal vs Plato?
The good guy bad guy scenario is in almost any form of sporting event. The team you like is the good guys, and the team you dislike is the bad guys. Not everyone is 100% clean in racing. These guys grew at their local dirt track where wrecks happen on a consistent basis. I grew up at the tracks aswell, so maybe my view of it is different than yours. "Boys have at it" is what you hear at those tracks, and at the end of the day it doesn't mean go out and wreck each other. When someone is upsetting you week in and week out on the track, sooner or later you will dump them. That's the meaning behind the saying. "Race hard, but easy pushing everyones buttons, some might push back".
JPM might not have done anything to Brad at the moment in time they were shown, and at the same time Vickers didn't exactly block Tony at that moment in time either. TNT's broadcasting is so bad that even if they were, the camera-men/announcers wouldn't catch it. Basically, everyone says JPM drives aggressive, never leaves room, etc, the list goes on. Brad feels he was pushed wide alittle bit, so next turn he's going to dump him. Vickers races people like its the last lap all the time. It is true that you should give and take early in the race, but he never seems to. This results in a crash. If Tony would have tried to brake more, it would have just locked his brakes and take out those same cars anyways. Leaning on Vickers was his only option. Vickers isn't no angel either, as he tried to say he didn't intentionally take out Tony.
I'm not saying it is a good thing, but what goes around, comes around. If a waitor treats me like crap in a restaurant, then you better believe that I'm not going to give them a healthy tip in return.
The thing is the good guy bad guy thing is promoted by NASCAR where as in the other series it isn't exactly because bad guy moves such as wrecking isn't allowed.
They don't promote wrecking, they promote the drivers to show their true personalities. If that means contact, than so be it. If its dangerous or detrimental to the sport, then it will be penalized.
It's been around the sport for years, so bringing it up now is a mute point.
Dale / Rusty
Darrell / Rusty
Dale / Rusty
Dale / Bill
Dale / Rudd
Gordon / Kenseth
Mikey / Robby
List goes on.
It's been around the sport for years, so bringing it up now is a mute point.
Dale / Rusty
Darrell / Rusty
Dale / Rusty
Dale / Bill
Dale / Rudd
Gordon / Kenseth
Mikey / Robby
List goes on.
Ummm... really? Last I remembered Carl Edwards was only given a "probation" for his stunt with Keselowski. I think what mustafur is trying to say is that this "hands-off no matter what" approach is going to have someone get so mad that they will turn around and drive backwards to wreck someone and even then NASCAR won't do anything because that's still "boys being boys".
You obviously might have a better opinion than me in terms of american stock car racing and I've only started watching nascar seriously around 2003. However, I seem to remember penalties like drive through and (in some extreme cases) parking for revenge wrecking. Like when Robbie Gordon got pissed at Ambrose and turned him around? NASCAR took away his win. Also there were cases where NASCAR even penalized for rude driving. Like remember when Tony Stewart was penalized for (accidentally but very sloppily) taking out Bowyer and Edwards? He didn't listen to his spotter and side-swiped Bowyer and that in turn sent Bowyer into Edwards. (I think this was at an Indy race but I dont quite remember the specific date of this incident)
Again, I dont mind the roughness of NASCAR. But back in the early to mid 2000s NASCAR did atleast have a line that the drivers shouldn't cross and they enforced it. This new attitude is basically "hands off no matter what" and with that a driver can pretty much make up any BS excuse to be butthurt and wreck people.
Sorry but Tony's excuse for wrecking Vickers was hilarious. "I dumped him cause he was blocking." Yeah... so blocking is a dumpable offense to the drivers? Really? Isn't blocking a part of racing? I think my LFS league results would be a lot better if I just start dumping everyone who's successful at blocking me and keeping me behind...
Regarding "antagonists", what I think mustafur is trying to say is NASCAR forcing unnatural antagonists. For example, who is the antagonist in F1? Who is the antagonist in V8 Supercar? Who is the antagonist in IndyCar? The answers to those questions will vary extremely from person to person because the organizing sport doesn't stick their hands in inter-driver drama or... if there isn't any, the sport doesn't force the drama. I've been told that NASCAR actually wants Tony to spin people because he's the designated "villain".
There is no established drama in F1, V8 Supercar, Indy or practically everything else. NASCAR technically (and officially) doesn't, but there's occasional hints that NASCAR implemented the "boys be boys" policy to just boost inter-driver drama because... well frankly NASCAR is losing their ratings and they need to do something to try to curb that loss. What mustafur is predicting is that NASCAR would start asking the drivers to act out more and to cause/force more inter-driver drama. For example, they (hypothetical WWEized NASCAR) would pay Tony 10 grand more to spin a couple of random people out get them pissed and they fight at the end of the race. Or maybe have Kyle Busch make sexists comments towards Danica. Or crap like that. All that is what mustafur means by NASCAR becoming the WWE of racing. Their "boys will be boys" was purely for the purpose of creating more spark and inter-driver drama rather than to better the racing or to make the championship more legitimate. It's always about the "show" not the "racing".
In all honestly, I wouldn't be complaining if NASCAR just flat out admitted that their sport is purely an entertainment show rather than a sport that preserves the integrity of pure racing. Because allowing revenge wrecking does not make for a legitimate championship.
because on ovals u never block someone thru first half of the race.
they take this mentality into road courses aswell and wickers was blocking him only 1/4 of way into race and tony was offended coz he got oval mentality now lol
they take this mentality into road courses aswell and wickers was blocking him only 1/4 of way into race and tony was offended coz he got oval mentality now lol
And they will be banned. Seems the people watching make it more dramatic than what it really is.
Read this:
They restricted it too much. It isn't the "new attitude", it is actually the old attitude. The early 2000s was the new attitude, which many of the long-time viewers disagreed with. Races were boring, no emotion was ever shown. Fines would even be laid out to people that used profanity on team radios. Not like that anymore unless you say it on live television.
And if there is no penalty, then why was Carl given probation? Why was KB and KH fined at Darlington? Why was Childress fined for hitting KB?
First 25% of the race, blocking shouldn't really be in your mind, and definately not when you are in 20th spot and a top 3 car is behind you. Vickers deserved every push Tony gave. I'm guessing you didn't like the ol' Bristol days either. :rolleyes:
Just lol. Since when was Tony ever the "villain"? "I've been told". That speaks for itself. Understand the rules of the sport, not just what someone tells you about the sport. If that were the case, then someone told me that Ambrose killed his engine on purpose at Infineon, losing the race on purpose just to add drama. He was also paid 10k after the race, because that is so more important than winning the race itself...
*Was to bring back the spark and inter-driver drama to inspire better racing on track, instead of drivers afraid to overtake and cause an incident, to later be penalized for.*
2003 Darlington, best finish of all time in my mind, and try and tell me there was no rough driving, or no drama.
If listening to long-time viewers is making the sport purely entertainment, then that is your view on it. Just because they focus on both doesn't mean you have to jump to conclusions after one race and say "It is just entertainment!".
In that case, F1 made KERS and DRS solely for pure racing, not thinking of entertaining the viewers at all.
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You criticize like one of those small journal things in the newspaper. You make your opinions spread as facts without doing the research on the matter at hand before you were around, or looked into it.
KHI sweeps the front 2 rows in nationwide qualifying.
Even though I hate Cup guys dominating Nationwide constantly, I'll be pulling for Stewart.
Just went back and watched the end of the February race, that was an awesome finish.
Just went back and watched the end of the February race, that was an awesome finish.
Wild race tonight, KHI seemed to shoot themselves in the foot there at the end.
Also a big lol to the Gibbs cars trying to lose it at the line.
Also a big lol to the Gibbs cars trying to lose it at the line.
They didn't even interview leffler... :/
Red Bull TV on ServusTV covers tonights Daytona 400 race live with German and original English commentary. The first NASCAR race within 3 1/2 years to be shown live in central europe. Everyone in the Alps-Danube-Adria region can watch it free on satelite TV or via Livestream (ServusTV.com). Some cable providers also provide ServusTV. Coverage starts 01:20cest (23:20 UTC).
How to fail massively:
Forget to change your drivers after setting up for all road course drivers.
Forget to change your drivers after setting up for all road course drivers.
Way to go Ragan!
Damn Dale Jr was gunning for a top 5 until the last turn.
Dale Jr got screwed by Jeff Burton not bumping him. Burton was probably told not to do it to give Harvick and Menard a chance.
Grats to Ragan, its about time.
Grats to Ragan, its about time.
I'm a Mark Martin fan, and even I'm thinking that maybe it's time for him to retire after causing that crash.. eh, finished the season, but restrictor plate races I've always hated anyways.
It was 100% his fault, but that doesn't mean he should retire. He admitted to it after the race, because he thought he was clear and the 2 man crap is deadly important.
Harvick caused the mess with Gordon spinning by just simply running into the back of Vickers in the middle of the corner, I saw that as much worse tbh. He could actually see the car he was plowing into.
Harvick caused the mess with Gordon spinning by just simply running into the back of Vickers in the middle of the corner, I saw that as much worse tbh. He could actually see the car he was plowing into.
I agree, it's just he's been slower than what he needs to be all year
Oh well, yeah... the on with Gordan was not his falut, actually I think Mark did a great job of laying off of his bumper so that he had a chance to save the car. Anybody else was pushing him they both would have been destroyed more than likely that late in the race.
lol at junior.
Obviously he holds back because he doesn't say something regretful. Can't remember the exact year, but he said something in victory lane and was penalized for it, which hurt him big in the championship. Since then he doesn't like to talk much on air because of it.
He's right, not only about the racing but about the writers.
He's right, not only about the racing but about the writers.
I've ALWAYS hates the plate tracks. It's still a race, but that's just not how car racing is ment to be. Rather it be a pack of cars that can't pass each other or 21 sets of 2 cars sitting in draft lock, either way it's just not what racing should be.
The old Daytona was acceptable.. You actually had to have a car that handled, and there was a good bit of driving skill involved. Now it's just not so. Reguardless, you need the greatest drivers in the world to do something as stupid as what they are doing, but once you ecplipse the level of ability required to do it you don't have any way of getting an advantage really.
I don't know the solution, but I think something that would involve making the drivers lift their right foot would be a good place to start. 4 Races a year are a side show at some carnival, and I wouldn't mind as much, but 1 of them just happens to be the Daytona 500.
The old Daytona was acceptable.. You actually had to have a car that handled, and there was a good bit of driving skill involved. Now it's just not so. Reguardless, you need the greatest drivers in the world to do something as stupid as what they are doing, but once you ecplipse the level of ability required to do it you don't have any way of getting an advantage really.
I don't know the solution, but I think something that would involve making the drivers lift their right foot would be a good place to start. 4 Races a year are a side show at some carnival, and I wouldn't mind as much, but 1 of them just happens to be the Daytona 500.
2011 NASCAR Season
(1062 posts, started )
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