Absolute spastics.


That is all.

Quote from menantoll :

Many people have been saying for years that our youth are going to one day be out of control because they are pandered to the whole time. Police are left powerless, school teachers can't even raise their voice any more. Coupled with the reasons you give,yes I agree it's part of it. The only surprise is that it took till now to happen.

So how about some workable solutions that don't involve bankrupting our country?

I just asked about because there are communities in UK that do not get involved in riots. Probably with some own authority existing and not isolated from UK society.

Another perspective, from a guy on another forum I post on. Long, but worth reading:

Quote :

Sadly I think I am being optimistic. I mean insofar as nobody seems to be willing to look at this from the perspective of a healthier society v an ever-more "productive" one. Deep in an extremely severe world recession - of confidence, of actual productivity, of massive interrelated, unsustainable debts sold as "investments" of one kind or another, assume positive futures - I think the dialog these days is agonizingly dishonest, desperate to cling to a continuity of vantage, that they're writing From A Distance and Things Are This Way when the reality is the distance is as uncertain as the destination. I am more concerned at the LACK of concern for radical changes to ensure we don't lose this generation. We are frighteningly far along in TOTALLY IGNORING EVERYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 30 because of economic and political crises/concerns. Any suggestion that the agenda should be modified to help spread the wealth on an AGE basis, not just a mean income basis, is ridiculed because hey kids just need iPhones and headphones and hoodies and a corner to crash in. If you tell kids those are their requirements, how are you ever going to tell them they need to work for a living. How are you going to help them find value in the process of working if you tell ****ing Standford grads "EHHH STIPEND FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS THEN MAYBE YOU CAN FILE SOME SHIT FOR ME". Fully three years of top-tier law students are being put on the shelf, given incomes comparable to retail store managers. And explicitly, through that treatment, that GUESS WHAT, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL THIS WORKS ON MY TERMS.

Who's lobbying for the kids on the other end of this? They can't speak for themselves because they get told "Buck up you little pussy you gotta pay your dues this is how it works I made my bones when you were playin' Nintendo". Thanks, *******s: I WANT TO MAKE MY BONES TOO, BUT YOU WON'T ****ING LET ME. There's such an easy slide there of self-exclusion from the situation, terming ambitious kids "entitled" - 1) because entitlement is a serious affliction in the <30 set but 2) because if you write EVERYONE off in those terms, you don't have to feel guilty for ****ing them out of the opportunity YOU HAD to kick ass when things were flush.

Quote :

I've just never felt such a disconnect between surface society (media, adults, the gainfully employed), and youth in my life, because of the accident of being born in 1975 and basically seeing nothing but Good Times. I was too young to have any experience or even really much memory of the terrible recession we had running from 75-82, and Black Monday was an issue in the financial markets, it was quickly over. The early 90s recession, with the LA riots and all, that was a really bad time and it felt like we just needed to get a Democrat in and everything would be fine. And bizarrely it kind of was and I was a teenager so it felt like a solution and that was a blip and now, you know, life is grand. And I spend my late teens and get-my-first-job 20s in probably the best employment and compensation market for young people in the history of the entire world, the late 90s.

What I've realized since the 2008 crisis is that all of this was just a generational stroke of luck, and that for kids born ten years later than me, who are now 25, life is a huge bucket of shit. I mean even rich kids, even pedigreed kids, that I see coming into trading desks and analyst roles, jobs that pay well, these are jobs that you didn't go to ****ing Harvard Business School or Yale or Oxbridge, even the LSE for. Those were the jobs you *skipped* in going to the Ivies and the big networking unis in the UK. But now all that huge theoretical work and the better part of a decade accumulating loads of debt to get this degree is rewarded by a job that was once a way to give a kid from the mail room a shot.

Maybe you're so rich that it doesn't matter, and this is just a way of continuing to swim in that same pond, keep the club together, and you're ok with how horrifically, nakedly vile that is, how aristocratic. I'm in a position of sort of servicing this class - I see it, I'm not from that high-born class, but neither am I distant from it. And in this position, I feel so much more outrage, not because, in the words of Noel Gallagher "IT'S IMPORTANT THAT I'M WORKING CLASS" or that I could even hope to identify with the economic struggles people a couple rungs down from me on the earnings ladder face. Or that I would want to, I've worked my whole life to bring my salary up, to afford the things I have, but I afford them, just. I can't buy them on a lark, I don't own anything particularly luxuriant, and went into debt to build the best house I could. Everywhere else, I am in a position to spend intelligently. But like 90+% of the ****ing planet isn't even in that comfort zone. I can't pledge allegiance to the systems we have because I don't think they afforded me the opportunity to earn a solid salary - I think I did, and the systems we have afforded the 1%-ers the opportunity to keep being 1% of the population. I don't see how you need to make much more than I do. Everything that occurs in the income brackets above me is total ****ing largess and waste.

Quote :

I'm no expert, I just have some friends abroad I've known since I was younger and so much rage at the differing expectations they deal with culturally and wrt their families as we get older. It's just completely ok to be in your mid-thirties and "getting started" with work-life in most of Europe. And if anything there is less pressure to do so since the economic blowout. It's just envy you know I wish it was ok for me to live at home and scrap for beer money and make music, write, bullshit blag my days away, but the US has this hangover from the Greatest Generation that you get into the workforce ASAP to increase national productivity and pull our standard of living up, DOT DOT DOT, but the reality is without real production, living in a service delivery/consumer society with a glaring tier of elite bourgeois media dickbags beating each other off on a daily basis and only advertising and delivery devices as their revenue, that mindset no longer applies. Entrepreneurial success today is not starting or growing a company, it's flipping one, and rather than a company it's an advertising conduit in 90+% of cases. One of the only real US companies to come out in the last ten years, Tesla - paid for by PayPal. Service and advertising. If we're - well no, we have an entire generation that is being offered depressed incomes (through salary, opportunity and external inflation) and expected to go through these motions, get in the mix ASAP. But the older generations are survivalist and flattening their career tracks out to map their requirements, to maintain their exaggerated standard of living. We're coming out of the most illusory period of prosperity (95-07) in American history. Nothing in the last ten years has occurred without increased money supply, incentivized by the government as corp/VC tax breaks (Megabank conglomerations, .com boom) or raw capacity (current QE phase). I'm hanging on, I'm in a good earning bracket (not too little that I can't enjoy a plush lifestyle, not so much that I cost more than I provide), but I'm constantly struggling with what's happening to kids in their 20s. It's a ****ing mess.

That said, it's only worse if the expectations are out of whack. If parents who can afford it would embrace the reality - that none of this is their child's fault, that internship after internship is simply whoring them out as slave labor - and let these kids live at home, cost and hassle free, as long as they're productive, creative and thinking in some way, that generation has a chance to ride this out without feeling like the working world is a ****ing scam and having zero faith in the entire construct. Don't force them to pretend things are ok, that they can and should be able to make it out there because you did - there has never been a bigger disconnect between expectation and reality than these kids are being subjected to.

Quote from menantoll :

"the people have been screwed over in favor of the needs of corporations or career politicians."

Governments have been doing this for hundreds of years not just the last 40. THAT was my point. I'm a child of the 70's, I was taught respect. I was taught that if you want something you work for it. If I got into trouble when I was out I was more afraid of my mother and father finding out than anything else. I will try to teach my daughter the same values.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have their parents around to teach them values, some people have parents at work all the time just to stay afloat. The point is these riots may not necessarily be caused or motivated directly by economic or political problems and inequality, but these things helped breed the culture of disrespect that lead to these riots.

Quote from menantoll :

You really have no idea. Half the country out of work? Empty supermarkets? It would be a whole different level of suffering. No exageration. Banks are so much a part of what makes the world work these days that they cannot be simply left to fail. I agree the bankers should have suffered but your solution is just bonkers. Unfortunately it isn't even as simple as taxing them huge amounts as they'll just vote with their feet and UK will be screwed again. It's a mess, no denying that.

So we should let ourselves be held to ransom and extorted every time the markets take a nosedive? I can never understand how people are so quick to criticise individual people when they need some financial help, yet be so willing to give huge sums of 'free money' to organisations who then rub it in our face with huge bonuses in the face of austerity. I reckon we'd only have to go through letting the banks fail once. We'd certainly come out with a dramatically altered economy, but perhaps we need to build a more balanced economy that isn't at the mercy of the whims of these irresponsible and greedy bastards. The short term crisis may be deeper but in the longer term the UK economy would emerge fairer and more stable, and we really could say we're all in this together.

Quote from menantoll :

Many people have been saying for years that our youth are going to one day be out of control because they are pandered to the whole time. Police are left powerless, school teachers can't even raise their voice any more. Coupled with the reasons you give,yes I agree it's part of it. The only surprise is that it took till now to happen.

That's part of the issue, these young people have grown up being sold dreams on TV, while at the same time having the services and opportunities available to them slashed. They've been made to feel entitled yet at the same time come to realise that they can't have these dreams and opportunities. Throw in the gangsta' lifestyle sold to them which predisposes to violence, a general patronising and snobbish air amongst the better off and intrusive police tactics and you have the current situation.

Quote from menantoll :

So how about some workable solutions that don't involve bankrupting our country?

There aren't any. Its about time people dropped their denial and faced the fact that irresponsible financial practice has bankrupted our country, there are those who are trying to avoid that punishment by shifting the load onto the people, David Cameron has done an impressive political job of turning what was a crisis of bad banking into one of public spending, to further his personal political agenda of representing only the wealthy, but the reality is the financial sector both home and internationally started this crisis but is making you pay for it.

Quote from 5haz :

So we should let ourselves be held to ransom and extorted every time the markets take a nosedive? I can never understand how people are so quick to criticise individual people when they need some financial help, yet be so willing to give huge sums of 'free money' to organisations who then rub it in our face with huge bonuses in the face of austerity. I reckon we'd only have to go through letting the banks fail once. We'd certainly come out with a dramatically altered economy, but perhaps we need to build a more balanced economy that isn't at the mercy of the whims of these irresponsible and greedy bastards.

It seems I am more greedy than them - I take as a bonus 10% of first margin of every amount of money I brought in company

Quote from Bean0 :

You think bankers bonuses are paid out from the exchequer ?
Don't be daft.

I think a 500 billion (plus undisclosed tertiarry payments) bonus was a pretty big bous. I don't for one moment belief the bailouts where necessary. The first one ocurred after one bad days trading, and who's to say that wasn't as rigged as the whole shambles was. The entire bailout was a huge con. I don't have details and data on the UK bailout, but the US bailout led to half a dozen Goldman and Sachs executives and former executives ordering brand new Learjets within 6 weeks of the bailout.

Quote from menantoll :

So you think that the banks should have been left to fall so that we didn't have to make the cuts in order that the country doesn't go bankrupt?

The banks where not going bankrupt. At the time it received an 800 million bailout the RBS had lost 1.6m in the previous trading quarter. In the same quarter of the previous year it has made profits of 168m. The maths do not add up - are we saying that banks cannot be allowed to make a loss and that they must, at all times, be increasing their capital value?

Quote from AndRand :

It seems I am more greedy than them - I take as a bonus 10% of first margin of every amount of money I brought in company

Was that money public funding though? The point is these people were supposedly facing a crisis yet they've simply carried on their excessive ways as before, meanwhile we all have to tighten our belts for their mistakes.

Two Words could end this.

Natural Disaster!

A very large storm with great winds and heavy rain, it would be over, but alas

The human storm rages on.

Good Luck with all that, we got your back in Canada if yah need it

AAnt

I give up

5haz, you should stop making assumptions about people. The fact my parents taught me good values does not mean we were not poor. It does not mean they were always able to be there for me. It does not mean that they both didn't have to work very hard. They gave a shit and wanted me to grow up with good values.

As for the rest of it there is no point trying to reply as you'll just ignore it and spout the same old bullshit over and over again and quite frankly I'm tired of reading it.

Quote from menantoll :

I give up

5haz, you should stop making assumptions about people. The fact my parents taught me good values does not mean we were not poor. It does not mean they were always able to be there for me. It does not mean that they both didn't have to work very hard. They gave a shit and wanted me to grow up with good values.

As for the rest of it there is no point trying to reply as you'll just ignore it and spout the same old bullshit over and over again and quite frankly I'm tired of reading it.

LIES! Everyone knows poor people have no values. They are savages who beat up old ladies for their pension and sit on park benches. OH THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!

Quote from menantoll :

I give up

5haz, you should stop making assumptions about people. The fact my parents taught me good values does not mean we were not poor. It does not mean they were always able to be there for me. It does not mean that they both didn't have to work very hard. They gave a shit and wanted me to grow up with good values.

As for the rest of it there is no point trying to reply as you'll just ignore it and spout the same old bullshit over and over again and quite frankly I'm tired of reading it.

Going Ostrich won't help, has one person been Tasered yet...see that's what yah need 10,000 Bobbies with 50,000 volts each...

He who has the best offense, generally wins.

Your PM said today "We will do what is necessary" Zap em all.

Quote from atomant :

going ostrich won't help, has one person been tasered yet...see that's what yah need 10,000 bobbies with 50,000 volts each...

He who has the best offense, generally wins.

Your pm said today "we will do what is necessary" zap em all.

:d

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

LIES! Everyone knows poor people have no values. They are savages who beat up old ladies for their pension and sit on park benches. OH THE HUMANITY OF IT ALL!

Lets not forget helping a 14 year old to his feet just so you can rob his back pack...and then have it go viral on the net..what a sad state of affairs.

I'm offended that these " insert word" are using a Canadian devolved form of com.

Now is the time for Canada to riot to get out from under an unstable regime.

lol

Quote from AtomAnt :

Lets not forget helping a 14 year old to his feet just so you can rob his back pack...and then have it go viral on the net..what a sad state of affairs.

ya knaw maaait , ennit ?

Quote from AtomAnt :

Lets not forget helping a 14 year old to his feet just so you can rob his back pack...and then have it go viral on the net..what a sad state of affairs.

He was 20, but true enough.

I like this news, I do hope it will actually happen and not just posturing by the local council.

Quote from DeKo :

Blueflame, you're a fucking idiot.

We don't use that word here..please edit and remove Blueflame from that post...the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Look i made a funny

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

He was 20, but true enough.

I like this news, I do hope it will actually happen and not just posturing by the local council.

I'm on the fence..this starts like the Hockey Finals here last year , but day after day..lack of response enables the smallest faction.

And what it is for...oh right a young guy with a gun. Happens every weekend in a more popular city.

I just got off skype from someone in the thick of it...reassure her

You need to TAZ them...ZAP with 50,000 volts..or shoot them.

Where are all the Mothers and Fathers?

Rioters All Over the Shop

http://www.theage.com.au/opini ... -shop-20110810-1imnk.html

Quote from AndRand :

Well, I just dont believe riots is the way of changing status-quo.
I dont believe giving for free is way of changing status-quo.

The way is always individualistic, where individual can be proud of his gain, especially on known fair enough terms.
And the way is to sweep scums that block that.

A little revelation is a good thing..it can change a society, this isn't being done to change a social program, our news tells us this started with a black youth with a gun..in England...with a gun...that's a heavy jail sentence..so the family says the cops planted the gun..what..and now..what's his name without goggling it.

You Fail

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

He was 20, but true enough.

I like this news, I do hope it will actually happen and not just posturing by the local council.

This won't solve anything except make Middle England feel vindicated for a day or two (until the next outrage appears in the papers). You take away someone's house and they don't magically disappear. So we're going to have 1000 people (plus their possibly innocent families) living on the streets.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

This won't solve anything except make Middle England feel vindicated for a day or two (until the next outrage appears in the papers). You take away someone's house and they don't magically disappear. So we're going to have 1000 people (plus their possibly innocent families) living on the streets.

Day 3 you fail.
This is a full scale world concern.

And for what..a youth with a gun..

Correct me if i'm wrong..isn't this how civil wars begin

South England vs North...all you're missing is random bus bombing

bunch of ..

Look at me I'm Robbing hood in a hoodie..giving it to the poor, what if all those causing the damage are the rich?

No better time to have that failing restaurant pay off.

This is like anti anti-consumerism. It wasn't that long ago kids were ready to burn their Nikes in service of a saner world. These kids want Nikes. They're doing exactly what they've been told to do and it's their fault.

Quote from AtomAnt :

A little revelation is a good thing..it can change a society, this isn't being done to change a social program, our news tells us this started with a black youth with a gun..in England...with a gun...that's a heavy jail sentence..so the family says the cops planted the gun..what..and now..what's his name without goggling it.

You Fail

in what?

Quote from Crashgate3 :

I'd like to think that in a functioning society, people don't destroy their own city because they don't want to, rather through fear of what might happen if they do.

Well it doesn't seem like we have much choice, they do it because they want to, and there's no fear of repercussions or concequences. At the end of the day concequences are there not only as punishment but as something to fear.

Quote from Electrik Kar :

This is like anti anti-consumerism. It wasn't that long ago kids were ready to burn their Nikes in service of a saner world. These kids want Nikes. They're doing exactly what they've been told to do and it's their fault.

OK I'll go with that..this stops at the death of a 4 year old girl the the mob attached..then she died..i have an open international bet that states.

"Your bet is good, no one under the age of 12 has died yet"

I put much money on that..does/he she live..throw that rock.

It's 8 to 1 that a small child will die.

Just repeat that on your internet...enough