Just for the record, this isn't the first time a crash like this has happened, either. (Though in that case the cars were more spread out and there were fewer of them.)
2011 IZOD IndyCar Series - Season over, RIP Dan Wheldon
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RIP Dan Weldon, saw it yesterday, terrible.
I'd love to see them back to Dover, or short tracks, Richmond back, NH, maybe Darlington (if it's made safe enough)
Darlington would be great, and especially becausue of the fact that the track is not very wide.
An update on the other drivers I was only able to find here, and it was nothing specific. http://indycar.com/news/show/5 ... mbs-to-injuries-in-crash/
It's racing, very dangerous sport and every one that goes to an event of that type is putting his/her life in risk. Imagine an F1 without brakes after a long straight, rally car crashing into crowd, etc. You can get those types of accidents in every type of motorsports, sadly this one took the life of one amazing driver.
Rest in Peace.
I saw him winning the 500 live in 2005 and this year. Very sad happening.
I saw him winning the 500 live in 2005 and this year. Very sad happening.
Martinsville or IRP I think would be incredably fun races to watch in the IndyCars
I agree fully though. Speed to Weight ratio shouldn't be below 10 lbs per MPH on an oval in my honest opinion, and if Stock Cars didn't have roofs like the Indy Cars do, I'd say that in order to avoid deaths the cars should be held to around around 150 or less. This simply means that they have to stay at small tracks.
Indy Car: 1525 lbs going 225 mph: that's 6.77 Pounds per MPH.
NASCAR*: 3400 lbs going 200 MPH: that's 17 Pounds per MPH.
My Indy Car Suggestion: 1525 Pounds @ 150 MPH = 10.166 Pounds per MPH. Still dangerous, but, much safer.
*with their roof and obvious saftey advatages
I think I speak for alot of Racing Enthusiests when I say that the 225mph at Indy is a tolerable risk that the drivers are willing to take so long as fan's lives are not endangered by it.
1. That new car doesn't prevent cars going airborne. Front to rear wheel contact sure, but thinking that light front end can't get up after slamming into the back of another car or the side of it isn't thinking too far ahead.
2. Oval races get no attendence in IndyCar because they suck to watch. Superspeedways are the worst. They go single file most of the race nose to tail, and then with 20 laps to go start going side by side flat out. Whoever has the most push to passes at the end wins. That isn't racing. A short track at least you have to let off the gas in corners. If they can only find 2 small ovals and the Indy500, I won't be disappointed. If anything it would increase attendence because there are a smaller number of them.
3. Why does oval racing in IndyCar have poor attendence yet the road racing does not? Because the road racing is better. It's the only form of top level single seater racing here in the US. Ovals (other than Indy) never should have became apart of it in the first place.
2. Oval races get no attendence in IndyCar because they suck to watch. Superspeedways are the worst. They go single file most of the race nose to tail, and then with 20 laps to go start going side by side flat out. Whoever has the most push to passes at the end wins. That isn't racing. A short track at least you have to let off the gas in corners. If they can only find 2 small ovals and the Indy500, I won't be disappointed. If anything it would increase attendence because there are a smaller number of them.
3. Why does oval racing in IndyCar have poor attendence yet the road racing does not? Because the road racing is better. It's the only form of top level single seater racing here in the US. Ovals (other than Indy) never should have became apart of it in the first place.
IMO, ESPN's coverage (except Marty Reid) left a lot to be desired. The thing that angered me most was saying 'this is the final replay' then cutting to Danica. That got quite a lot of ire in the streamI was on. I felt also that they didn't give the drivers enough space, and I wonder if it'd been Danica, how the coverage would have changed.
2. Except that the ovals that get the most attendance actually ARE the superspeedways... have you ever wondered why there's a reason behind the fact that IndyCar can only get ovals like Las Vegas and Fontana? Because for some reason superspeedways get more attendance over tracks like Iowa or Milkwaukee Mile or NHS. Which baffles me because, according to you (and you are right), racing sucks on superspeedways. But it doesn't on tracks that are shorter (the Iowa race was one of the best oval races I've ever seen). Yet people ignore that and just put in money on the superspeeedways.
3. Ovals should have never been a part of it? Umm... so what about CART? Which is what IndyCar is trying to do. Bernard said he wanted more CART tracks like Phoenix, NHS, and Milwaukee Mile on the schedule as well as returning to a lot of former CART tracks like Cleveland, Belle Isle (successful), and Reliant Park. You can't honestly say that CART wasn't successful in both oval and road course racing and IndyCar as a league in 1996 started with the idea that top tier open wheel oval racing should never die. Indy has always raced on massive amounts of ovals and I'm sorry to say but Dan's death isn't really that outstanding.
Sure Las Vegas was a stupid decision to include but did people forget about Paul Dana back in Homestead? Or Tony Renna at Indianapolis? Greg Moore at Fontana? Why don't you just ban motorsports forever then...
I agree with you that superspeedways NEED to be limited to just Indy and maybe Texas or Chicagoland (great track for IndyCar). But saying that, Dan's death proves that IndyCar needs to go away from ovals is an overreaction. If you look at it from a big picture perspective from when CART was in it's glory years, nothing that's happened so far is really that shocking tbh. I mean what did people do after Paul Dana's death? Oh yeah... they still raced at Homestead...
IndyCar on ovals can provide great oval racing just as CART and early champcar races on ovals were fantastic to watch. IndyCar has a chance to reclaim that CART oval magic and it's very close to doing so.
No, it isn't anywhere close to reclaiming the CART oval magic. Having side by side racing all race is not magic. It's smoke and mirrors. The IRL cannot reclaim Indy 89 or Indy 92 (though it tried with 2006), or Michigan in 92, 94, 99 or 2000. It cannot reclaim California 97, or Gil's blistering qualy lap in 2000, or the race.
It is a long, long, LONG way from that.
It is a long, long, LONG way from that.
Not really... the new oval car looks pretty good to try to bring back some Indy oval magic. Also... have you noticed that the tracks you cited with "great racing" are all superspeedways? Heck didn't they use the Hanford device at Michigan and the cars were topping 226 MPH.
I hate to say it guys but this whole "superspeedway should never be there" attitude is pure 20/20 hindsight. I mean come on. Motorsport fans applauded the Hanford device back in CART for godsake.
Of course this doesn't mean I disagree with the lot of you. Superspeedways should be limited to Indy and Texas or maybe Chicagoland. Fontana doesn't need to be there and Las Vegas sure as heck didn't need to be there. But do not condemn all of oval racing just because of a small group of unsuitable ovals and Dan's death. It's disrespectful to Dan's memory since ovals were one of his most favorite venues in IndyCar
Texas is just as dangerous as Las Vegas. Keep it to flat tracks and you're probably mitigating the risks enough.
Well I think the reason this race was cancelled was because it wasn't safe for the rest of the drivers, I mean 15 cars were already totalled. In Paul's crash it was due to a mechanical failure. So sure a death should warrant a cancellation, but I think it was more or less due to the fact that more drivers could have died.
Plus there are just TOO MANY super speedways in Indy. I would like to see more tracks like New Hampshire. Heck they even have Iowa in the mix.
Also, this looks like a similar incident. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... LVM6s&feature=related
I guess we can fantasize that is how it all happened, some sort of mechanical failure.
Oh, and the air vaulted cars... not the first time its happened
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpux5JxqEk&feature=fvst
Agreed and to be honest, I wouldn't complain if Chicagoland leaves to. I want less superspeedways in Indy. I just think removing ALL oval racing in IndyCar is an overreaction and slightly insulting to Dan's memory since Dan loved IndyCar oval racing
Not totally true there Lizard, New Hampshire 1993. Look up that race, that is one of THE best oval races ever. IRL this year didn't come close at all to capturing the magic of that race. Or Phoenix 1995, another flat track with a great race.
Well that's because it was raining at New Hampshire this year. Though I was delighted to see Will Power scurry over the wall like a squirrell.
2. You must have missed the crowd at Vegas? Kentucky wasn't that packed either. They didn't even race at Chicagoland this year, Texas had probably the only good crowd, but it was 2 races in one. Iowa was straight packed, and it is a short track. Milwaukee isn't going to pay what IndyCar or NASCAR wants to run a race, that is their main reason for pulling out, same with IRP and NASCAR.
3. If IndyCar was anywhere near CART, then getting those races wouldn't be a problem. IndyCar now is much much different than CART. CART had cars that were not all aero. You needed much more mechanical grip, which not every team could find, which seperated the field quite a bit. That's why you have races like this, this, and this.
The change for IndyCar doesn't have to do with only Dan. When the cars were updated in the early 2000s, and speeds increased with grip, it provided many more dangerous situations. Kenny Brack's crash should have turned them away from it, but it continued. More than a handful have been seriously injured due to these "superspeedways". That's more than other top level series by miles. That lies the problem. You can say "well only one gets seriously injured each year", and I'll not only call BS, but ask why one would even be okay? Why cause that much risk for not much reward in the end?
I'm sure teams wouldn't mind the change either. Nothing like saving 1-2 cars each season.
I never said the superspeedways were the most profitable races ever for indycar. But the numbers are better with superspeedways than in shorter ovals (although admittedly Iowa numbers were decent which is why they are returning). Bernard has already stated that his oval choices are tied down because there's quite a lot of ovals that do not want anything to do with IndyCar anymore due to their low attendance and only the superspeedways are still willing
Also yes, the Dallara was too dangerous. But we're not using the Dallara anymore, is there evidence that the new ICONIC car is as or more dangerous? Whats wrong with running the ICONIC car on smaller flat ovals like Phoenix or Iowa?
Dreadful. Really shocking news. Heartbreaking to watch his father's statement.
Jody Schekter gave an Interview when his son was still in the medical center. He wanted his son to retire from IndyCars years ago, because he always feared those accidents. He moreover says that instead of making oval racing safer, IRL's decision to add more downforce to the Dallara made oval racing more dangerous in these cars, as you can easily go flat out on the 1,5mi ovals. People who struggled to find the right feeling to the car and who had to lift earlier then others are now able to follow and stay in a big pack.
Comparing Dan Wheldon with Paul Dana sadly is like comparing Senna to Ratzenberger.
I try to compare last nights IndyCar racing to what I remember from ChampCar racing there. ChampCars were much slower, because they used the road course aero kit. Also there were only 18 cars racing and with a not that crowded track, there is more room for errors. Pole lap was a 204,69mph one, in IndyCars it was a 215,75 mph lap. (NASCAR did a 188,88 mph lap this year). Additionally the progressive banking did not do anything good to the racing. Those open wheelers can now drive side by side throughout the lap. When ChampCars raced there, the outside lane was significantly slower. Even with push-to-pass the driver on the outside lane would struggle to keep up with the driver on the inside lane. This made the racing all in all slower then the full throttle side-by-side IndyCar racing those first 11 laps. 2005 Las Vegas saw only one full-course caution. Paul Tracy chrashed out, leading the race and paving the way to one of the few Bourdais oval victories. As Vasser and Tracy were the only racers with a real oval racing experience , the rest of the grid was less agressive. They feared the wall. The attitude in sundays race differed from that. why the hell do you stay in double file after the start? This would have been a damn 200mi race? Two-wide, three-wide, four-wide? In a situation where track position was less important then the shit of a fly? When all that stuff comes together it really gets really dangerous! We really should be thankfull that there happend just that few...
Comparing Dan Wheldon with Paul Dana sadly is like comparing Senna to Ratzenberger.
I try to compare last nights IndyCar racing to what I remember from ChampCar racing there. ChampCars were much slower, because they used the road course aero kit. Also there were only 18 cars racing and with a not that crowded track, there is more room for errors. Pole lap was a 204,69mph one, in IndyCars it was a 215,75 mph lap. (NASCAR did a 188,88 mph lap this year). Additionally the progressive banking did not do anything good to the racing. Those open wheelers can now drive side by side throughout the lap. When ChampCars raced there, the outside lane was significantly slower. Even with push-to-pass the driver on the outside lane would struggle to keep up with the driver on the inside lane. This made the racing all in all slower then the full throttle side-by-side IndyCar racing those first 11 laps. 2005 Las Vegas saw only one full-course caution. Paul Tracy chrashed out, leading the race and paving the way to one of the few Bourdais oval victories. As Vasser and Tracy were the only racers with a real oval racing experience , the rest of the grid was less agressive. They feared the wall. The attitude in sundays race differed from that. why the hell do you stay in double file after the start? This would have been a damn 200mi race? Two-wide, three-wide, four-wide? In a situation where track position was less important then the shit of a fly? When all that stuff comes together it really gets really dangerous! We really should be thankfull that there happend just that few...
Yes the ancient Dallara needs to go for sure and fortunately that decision was made a long time ago. It was just a shame the chassis overstayed its welcome by just one race Again, improvements were already made with the ICONIC chassis. I'm with you guys that superspeedways need to go but oval open wheel racing in general is fine.
Also I agree with Thilo. It's very fortunate this accident didn't claim more lives. Will Power flew and Pippa Mann did a barrel roll into the wall and it's lucky bystandards weren't killed either (Jeff Krosnoff's crash)
Again, improvements were already made with the ICONIC chassis. I'm with you guys that superspeedways need to go but oval open wheel racing in general is fine.Also I agree with Thilo. It's very fortunate this accident didn't claim more lives. Will Power flew and Pippa Mann did a barrel roll into the wall and it's lucky bystandards weren't killed either (Jeff Krosnoff's crash)
A quick note on attendance at Kentucky Speedway in what would become the final round of the season:
I was there, and most of the people who I talked to had gotten their tickets from the ticket exchange reguardeding the traffic disaster that happened there when the Sprint Cup Series came there for the first time. Those who failed to make the race in time to see the green flag like myself received a free ticket to another Cup series race, and your choice of that Indy Car series ticket or a truck series ticket. I chose the Indy Car series ticket, because I'd never seen them race before.
If there werre 107,000 people there for the Cup race, then the Indy Car race might have made it to 25,000... maybe. Truly, the attendance was attrocious, and less than half of those tickets were actually bought in the first place.
Race its self? Well, it wasn't the most exciting until the last 15 laps, and it just came down to stratagy play between the two with their push to pass button. Close, exciting finish aside, the rest of the race was all pit strategy single file pace laps (at 215 mph).
I was there, and most of the people who I talked to had gotten their tickets from the ticket exchange reguardeding the traffic disaster that happened there when the Sprint Cup Series came there for the first time. Those who failed to make the race in time to see the green flag like myself received a free ticket to another Cup series race, and your choice of that Indy Car series ticket or a truck series ticket. I chose the Indy Car series ticket, because I'd never seen them race before.
If there werre 107,000 people there for the Cup race, then the Indy Car race might have made it to 25,000... maybe. Truly, the attendance was attrocious, and less than half of those tickets were actually bought in the first place.
Race its self? Well, it wasn't the most exciting until the last 15 laps, and it just came down to stratagy play between the two with their push to pass button. Close, exciting finish aside, the rest of the race was all pit strategy single file pace laps (at 215 mph).
I mean isn't IndyCar building a new oval in China just for the series? I feel like IndyCar can find a new home in foreign ovals although I'm not so sure Eurospeedway would be that much of a better choice in terms of safety since that is another superspeedway
2011 IZOD IndyCar Series - Season over, RIP Dan Wheldon
(542 posts, started )
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