^ That.

Also copypaste from one forums, it was said to be Tagliani's phone call with Bernard:

-I just spoke to Randy Bernard 5mins ago on the phone for 1/2hr.
-Starting today, I can guarantee you that there will be some unique developments to our cars.
-We are not saying we will never race on an oval again, but the cars of the future, once they arrive on ovals, will look like nothing we have even seen before.
-The wings will be removed, the nose of the cars will be modified, the rear wings will disappear, the cars will have less downforce, the wheels will be protected on the sides with added components, same thing for the rear wheels, the cars will not be the same and will not have the same look as cars that run road courses.
-Maybe this will bring us forward to a new technological level, to the point where we can say we still run on ovals, the Indy 500 is still an integral part of the series, but our cars are 99.9% safe.
-If we can get to this level of security, at least Dan's incident will not have happened in vain.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95492 Paul Tracy talking some sense for once.

Also I think everyone is overreacting about larger ovals, imo the race next year at Auto Club Speedway (2mi banked 14deg in corners) is 100x safer than any race at a high banked 1.5 miler simply because its much, much wider and the cars generally leave the top half of the track alone during the race.

Am I the only one who finds all these racing drivers who are now saying "Vegas was a recipe for disaster" quite annoying?

I am sorry but if you think Vegas is such a dangerous track then why didn't you do something about it before? From what I have read, this track has been filled accidents over the years. Why wait til someone get killed to say it?!

Quote from JackDaMaster :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95492 Paul Tracy talking some sense for once.

Also I think everyone is overreacting about larger ovals, imo the race next year at Auto Club Speedway (2mi banked 14deg in corners) is 100x safer than any race at a high banked 1.5 miler simply because its much, much wider and the cars generally leave the top half of the track alone during the race.

A track already have seen 2 deaths in American Open wheel racing... Greg Moore died there, so did a women last year during an "Indy Experience" drive

Quote from TFalke55 :

A track already have seen 2 deaths in American Open wheel racing... Greg Moore died there, so did a women last year during an "Indy Experience" drive

Greg Moore's crash was because of an access road that wasnt level with the grass. There is now tarmac there covering the whole inside of the track. So you're telling me a freak accident that happened over 10 years ago should lead to cars not racing there? (and instantly branding the track as 'OMG UNSAFE')

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

Am I the only one who finds all these racing drivers who are now saying "Vegas was a recipe for disaster" quite annoying?

I am sorry but if you think Vegas is such a dangerous track then why didn't you do something about it before? From what I have read, this track has been filled accidents over the years. Why wait til someone get killed to say it?!

It's hindsight 20/20 at its best. Although to be fair there were a few drivers who did voice concerns but a large number of the people criticizing IndyCar are doing it now when something has happened rather than before

Quote from JackDaMaster :

Greg Moore's crash was because of an access road that wasnt level with the grass. There is now tarmac there covering the whole inside of the track. So you're telling me a freak accident that happened over 10 years ago should lead to cars not racing there? (and instantly branding the track as 'OMG UNSAFE')

no, but that woman died actually in accident which was very much the same...

I'm a bit late, but better than never..

R.I.P Dan Wheldon

Quote from TFalke55 :

no, but that woman died actually in accident which was very much the same...

And I suppose if someone does a driving experience in a 'replica F1 car' at Silverstone tomorrow and is killed in an accident, that means they should reconsider racing there?

Quote from JackDaMaster :

And I suppose if someone does a driving experience in a 'replica F1 car' at Silverstone tomorrow and is killed in an accident, that means they should reconsider racing there?

ok... agreed... still it is the fastest track... it was way too fast 10 years ago, why should it be any better next year?

Quote from Kid222 :

^ That.

-The wings will be removed, the nose of the cars will be modified, the rear wings will disappear, the cars will have less downforce, the wheels will be protected on the sides with added components, same thing for the rear wheels, the cars will not be the same and will not have the same look as cars that run road courses.

I'm not a huge fan of this, so they're basically making them have no downforce and covered wheels, and they plan to run them on ovals? Wouldn't that mean more spins or crashes due to the cars being more slippery?

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

I'm not a huge fan of this, so they're basically making them have no downforce and covered wheels, and they plan to run them on ovals? Wouldn't that mean more spins or crashes due to the cars being more slippery?

Well, yes, in theory, but there would be much less of a chance for the cars to be sent into the catch fencing. Honestly, I think that it would make for much better racing anyways

Also, there would be less of a possability for the cars to get all bunched up in a pack like they were at Vegas. That pack racing is what needs to be gotten rid of more than anything.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Really? IndyCar is THAT dangerous on ovals that it needs to stop going to ovals in general? So IndyCar at Phoenix would be a deathtrap? Or Milwaukee Mile? Or New Hampshire Speedway? Or Richmond? Yes lets condemn all of Dan Wheldon's favorite type of racing just because two categories (speedways and superspeedways) can lead to dangerous situations? Because IndyCar unacceptably dangerous on Texas and Las Vegas must mean that IndyCar is equally as dangerous on Richmond or Martinsville right?

Honest, this type of overreation is what kills motorsports at times. Yes, something must be done so Dan Wheldon incidents don't repeat. But must we really make IndyCar the American GP2 just for that? Would IndyCar at Richmond or Iowa be so infinitely more dangerous than IndyCar at Sonoma? Wasn't someone seriously injured at Sonoma too? Oh hey, lets ban road courses with blind corners now. Cause that's not an overreaction at all. No sir.

Seems you are the one over reacting with that post lol. High banked superspeedways should essentially be gone. Not much enjoyment watching cars go flat out for 200 laps with one touch being able to destroy many cars. Sure, short tracks would be nice, but as you said yourself the short tracks are not resigning, so wouldn't that mean no more ovals? You are the one that said short tracks are not wanting to be a part, yet you act like they can just create events at those tracks.

Quote from Kid222 :

^ That.

Also copypaste from one forums, it was said to be Tagliani's phone call with Bernard:

-I just spoke to Randy Bernard 5mins ago on the phone for 1/2hr.
-Starting today, I can guarantee you that there will be some unique developments to our cars.
-We are not saying we will never race on an oval again, but the cars of the future, once they arrive on ovals, will look like nothing we have even seen before.
-The wings will be removed, the nose of the cars will be modified, the rear wings will disappear, the cars will have less downforce, the wheels will be protected on the sides with added components, same thing for the rear wheels, the cars will not be the same and will not have the same look as cars that run road courses.
-Maybe this will bring us forward to a new technological level, to the point where we can say we still run on ovals, the Indy 500 is still an integral part of the series, but our cars are 99.9% safe.
-If we can get to this level of security, at least Dan's incident will not have happened in vain.

Good luck paying for two types of cars all year...

Quote from JackDaMaster :

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95492 Paul Tracy talking some sense for once.

Also I think everyone is overreacting about larger ovals, imo the race next year at Auto Club Speedway (2mi banked 14deg in corners) is 100x safer than any race at a high banked 1.5 miler simply because its much, much wider and the cars generally leave the top half of the track alone during the race.

It isn't just the large ovals. It is more about the banking. California and Michigan had always been safer, besides the flip(s) because the flatter track creates more single line racing that indy provides. Those two are the only tracks I could tolerate. Chicagoland, kansas, and Kentucky are similar, but are not wide enough imo.

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

Am I the only one who finds all these racing drivers who are now saying "Vegas was a recipe for disaster" quite annoying?

I am sorry but if you think Vegas is such a dangerous track then why didn't you do something about it before? From what I have read, this track has been filled accidents over the years. Why wait til someone get killed to say it?!

Quote from lizardfolk :

It's hindsight 20/20 at its best. Although to be fair there were a few drivers who did voice concerns but a large number of the people criticizing IndyCar are doing it now when something has happened rather than before

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1640459#post1640459

We called it, just like many other people said before the race. There were many concerns, it was on windtunnel for two weeks straight. Just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean it didn't happen.


Phone posts in class ftw

Ryan Briscoe's saying Indy ought to have closed cockpits. No, those have their own issues

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Ryan Briscoe's saying Indy ought to have closed cockpits. No, those have their own issues

Yea, a closed cockpit won't do much good when it gets ground off by the cheese graters lining the circuit.

Everyone I'm seeing talking about the issue is only addressing one thing (in the media, anyways, not on the forum). Yes, we need a new catch fencing solution. Yes, we need to break up the pack racing. Yes, we need to race on tracks that don't allow 3-wide for 200 miles at 225mph.

But, what most people are neglecting to say is that truly we need all three.

RIP Dan.

Quote from JPeace :

Exactly, the amount of cars that burst into flames in that accident, I would prefer a open cockpit if my car was to burst into flames!

That's exactly what I thought of, that and the impact of a closed cockpit car into fencing wouldn't be pretty.

It needs a number of solutions, but the problem is which is the most pressing

Indeed, the cheese grader of fences could use improvement. Questions there are: Will a plastic or glass solution really work? How well? Will the fence still need to be in place as a back up? Will spectators be safe? Will spectators be able to see as well?

Pack racing. In my honest opinion, I think that this is the first thing that needs to be done away with. Flatter tracks, less grip, more difference in cars.

As far as tracks go, the question becomes: What are the options? I know I wouldn't go to anywhere that allows over 215 max, and even that would scare me as a race director, but as I said.. We don't know the options.

Closed cock pits seem to be okay with the bigger cars such as NASCAR. Fires are very rarely an issue there, but what kind of mesaures would have to be taken to avoid fires for a small Indycar vs. a stock car?

Quote from JPeace :

What about the large concrete walls surrounding the track?

Actually, the most pressing issue is that they crash, but we can't fix that

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

I'm not a huge fan of this, so they're basically making them have no downforce and covered wheels, and they plan to run them on ovals? Wouldn't that mean more spins or crashes due to the cars being more slippery?

But it would lead to the drivers having to back off and be more cautious just to keep their cars on the track. The situation at Vegas was that it was easy for all the cars to run flat out no matter what line they were on, which meant that the drivers had more confidence and ability to run close together.

Quote from Cornys :

Closed cock pits seem to be okay with the bigger cars such as NASCAR. Fires are very rarely an issue there, but what kind of mesaures would have to be taken to avoid fires for a small Indycar vs. a stock car?

The cars in NASCAR have windows though, the issues with a closed cockpit open wheeler come from lack of a way to exit quickly when they are upside-down.

The concrete walls aren't concrete, they are SAFER barriers though.

Quote from PMD9409 :

Seems you are the one over reacting with that post lol. High banked superspeedways should essentially be gone. Not much enjoyment watching cars go flat out for 200 laps with one touch being able to destroy many cars. Sure, short tracks would be nice, but as you said yourself the short tracks are not resigning, so wouldn't that mean no more ovals? You are the one that said short tracks are not wanting to be a part, yet you act like they can just create events at those tracks.

So every single oval that's not superspeedways is completely absolutely unconditionally against IndyCar? Even foreign ovals? Yes, superspeedways should go but that doesn't mean that we should just give up on IndyCar oval racing and just call it quits.

If short tracks dont want indy put in effort to try to change that. If High banked superspeedways are the only ovals willing, do something to make them safer. We shouldn't just give up on IndyCar oval racing as Jimmie Johnson put it that's the attitude I'm bashing. Maybe IndyCar oval racing is at a point of no return and it will die out. I'm not saying it wont. But the attitude that "oh we should just make it a road series and not put any more thought into the oval aspect of IndyCar" is specifically what I'm posting against and it is Johnson's attitude

BTW great article: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-oval-madness/

EDIT: Randy: "I can tell you I see the value in ovals more than the purists of the sport," Bernard said Thursday. "If we want more great American drivers, we have to have a balanced series. I'm not giving up on ovals, but I can't do bad deals. For now, we also have to make wise business decisions. We may have a take a step backward [off ovals] to accomplish our long-term goals on ovals."

Quote from lizardfolk :

So every single oval that's not superspeedways is completely absolutely unconditionally against IndyCar? Even foreign ovals? Yes, superspeedways should go but that doesn't mean that we should just give up on IndyCar oval racing and just call it quits.

And wait multiple years for foreign tracks? The wait is what caused this disaster to begin with. They waited too long to produce safer cars, and they waited without doing a thing to the cars they currently had to make racing safer on the super speedways.

Quote :

If short tracks dont want indy put in effort to try to change that. If High banked superspeedways are the only ovals willing, do something to make them safer. We shouldn't just give up on IndyCar oval racing as Jimmie Johnson put it that's the attitude I'm bashing. Maybe IndyCar oval racing is at a point of no return and it will die out. I'm not saying it wont. But the attitude that "oh we should just make it a road series and not put any more thought into the oval aspect of IndyCar" is specifically what I'm posting against and it is Johnson's attitude

Short tracks can't afford things like the big tracks can, it just isn't possible. Most short tracks are not owned by major companies (SMI for example), and if they are, they don't see IndyCar as a priority because of revenue made it past races, viewer ratings, and many other things. NHMS had a piss poor crowd this year, don't be surprised to not see them coming back for at least 2-3 years if that. Other tracks like Milwaukee, who is privately owned still I believe, had a pitiful crowd as well. It would take quite a bit for the owners to have IndyCar there again.

Also, you might want to read Johnson's POV again, because you keep jumping to conclusions of people/situations without comprehending them. Yes, Johnson said no more ovals, but he said with the tracks and cars at their current state. "I have never went 225mph in my life, and they average it". After changes that IndyCar should make, those cars would be no where near that. You need to comprehend something before criticizing it.

Quote :

BTW great article: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-oval-madness/

So you agree with us, cool, about time. Did you read Fernandez? Did you notice he said people were worried before the race as well? Or is he lying too and just saying that after the fact?

You really contradicted yourself posting that article, just saying.

Quote :

EDIT: Randy: "I can tell you I see the value in ovals more than the purists of the sport," Bernard said Thursday. "If we want more great American drivers, we have to have a balanced series. I'm not giving up on ovals, but I can't do bad deals. For now, we also have to make wise business decisions. We may have a take a step backward [off ovals] to accomplish our long-term goals on ovals."

Yeah it is called go off the ovals until you can build proper cars that have better specs for oval racing. If you can't prevent cars from going completely airborne (freakin Will power is close to 15 feet above the track) then sorry, you shouldn't be racing there.

Personally speaking I would hate to see the ovals go completely from the schedule, I liked them....however going by the crowds this season I think I'm in a minority here.

We could sit here and analysis what could/should have been done, the sad thing is we never ask these questions till something like this happens. Lets be honest we had big crashes before (Conway at Indy last year in the catch fencing) but since they got away from the crashes relatively unscathed (Conway brook his back granted but still can race) it was never approached. Sadly we needed the death of a driver for these questions to be asked.

What we need to do is not portion blame, but look at solutions and improve the sport. It's the least they can do in honour of Dan.