I don't think LFS attracts a particularly young audience. I would consider young to be under 18s. Not that being any older makes you old, but rather I feel like I'm talking to and racing with adults rather than kids. See how many over 18s play Rugrats Golf. It'll be minority.

Sure older cars in games like GPL will obviously attract a positively ancient audience , that's only to be expected. I would definately like to see some older cars in LFS though. And trucks. And bikes, three-wheelers, six wheelers, and.... the list is endless.

Quote from durbster :

You've missed my point there though, I wasn't suggesting a difference in the functionality of the interface, just purely how it looks. You could have exactly the same menus, layout, buttons, sliders etc., but presented in a sort of Microsoft Visual Basic style the whole product would feel completely different.


It's a widely held view but I'm not sure it's true. I've never seen stats to back it up. If you look at the readership of PC gaming mags for example, the average age is mid-late 20s, and you get just as many adults with PS2s as kids, possibly moreso since they're the generation that have grown up with computer games.

Sorry, I missed your point there. Standardized controls, albeit somewhat boring, do make for a more usable interface, and can look a bit more "professional". However, I think those things are hard to do when you are drawing with DirectX. By definition, that means that you have to create a draw everything yourself.

I'm sorry, but I am an old fart, mid-20's IS a kid to me.

Quote from Vykos69 :

LFS attracts at first the "non-conservative" Simracer, cause it came from a total different point of view. Ask any GPL freak, Nascar fan or whatever, to race you in the GTi. He wont.

Uh, gotta disagree there. I was a GPL... well not freak, but fan. I actually like NASCAR 2003. Both of those sims have more in common with LFS than there are real differences. It all comes down to good physics and good racing.

Quote from Vykos69 :

And that's the main reasons new people come to it, that's maybe also the reason some of "us" are fanatics when it comes to advertising the "own" Sim. Because LFS goes new ways, compared to the old and conservative ones of the simracing scene since years.

I think that is what keeps a lot of us here. I came in the first place because of the good physics modeling and the great online play. I stay because of the community and yes, because that feeling of connection with the developers that makes me (and all of us) part of the product. I really don't understand the "old and conservative" reference though. If by conservative, you mean established large companies that produce products for the largest possible demographics, then I could agree (but think that "conservative" is an odd way of describing that), and "old" is always relative

Well im only 14 i first played S1 when i was like 12 (on a demo cd of a mgazine) AND I HATED IT!!! (lol i thought it was so stupid caus you couldnt take any of the corners properly) then a few years later somone said something on some forum about live for speed and that there was gonna be damage in the next version (S2) so im like ok cool. i started to play s1 (i had a wheel now that made it very enjoyable) then S2 came out and i havent had a social life that didnt involve cars for months :P

depends on how you define younger ... if you mean 18 year olds (the type that just got their drivers license) its obviously that "wow this thing feels exactly like my own car" feeling you instantly get when you first take the gti for a spin with the default setup

just turned 16 and got my drivers liscense but ive been driving s1 demo until s2alpha played demo for awhile then finally i got s2 liscense cause I probably am one of the more mature youngens and I wanted to race along side people that wanted to race clean, fast, and fun instead of wrecking and just screw'n around. I got a wheel for the demo I really liked it back in s1 and decided to play the demo until I couldnt play it no more and wanted more maps and cars. Diffently made a good switch I think young people get attracted by the eye candy. I found it after trying to find alternatives for gtr, didnt really like it that much and it was really expensive too. Wasnt even a sim racer at the time I was flight simmer and bf or cs player. I play cpu games as a small hobby dont play everyday and not for long either. But its fun when your looking for something to do, Im not a big tv fan so this is my tv slash ps2 Thats my 2 whopping cents

I don't think it is JUST LFS that attracts younger gamers (note "gamers" -- the majority of them are younger than 18 years old)... Almost every other game that is in the main market are under a popular category and no doubt attract the youngest of gamers. Matter of fact... I have noticed that PC gaming is becoming much more common for younger people. In the late 90's you didn't see a 12 year old playing an advanced simulation... and playing it well. The fact is, many younger players are around these days, on PC, console, whatever... It is much more accessible and possible for people of any age. And in LFS' case, this game can be played by even a 5 or 6 year old computer system, which is maybe one reason why you get a lot of mixed ages... not a lot of people can upgrade either, so LFS is their only hope.

I do see people playing other simulations, young ones too... but they lack the interest in games like those... it doesn't 'look pretty', it is 'too hard' for them, etc. LFS is still a hard game for any youngster I think, but I still think it appeals to them because it is fun, like any game should be. That... and they probably are in belief with how the car drives... something they cannot do in real-life probably until they are 16 or older.

I find that a game that has a lot of 'young appeal' is somewhat of an advantage... for the developers to make more money at least. How do you think EA makes so much? You don't see EA making an incredibly hard game. The age group of around 12 to 16 buy the most games! So expect to see it... and those age groups primarily are sucked into GOOD ONLINE GAMES, which is the most popular detail of any video game these days. Almost a requirement that a game has multiplayer these days.

That's all I gotta say

On a side note about age, and youngsters becoming very smart & good at games these days... a recent example of this has been my younger cousin. He is 8 years old and plays Counterstrike really REALLY damn good... No pro, but he finishes his games with a 2:1 k/d ratio

Hmmm... "younger"

When I was a member of Memphis Bleek, I was one of the youngest. I believe that only Reed was younger then me.
I'm 23 now, was, I dunno... 21 or 22 then? Reed I think was 19.

But many others on the team were in their 30s, 40s, even 50s.

I can see the demo attracting younger players, especially now with damage, smoke, skid marks, etc...
Before all that there's wasn't much "just screwing around" type stuff to do. Not to say you couldn't, there was just less to do.
Damage I think will bring the yougest croud. Seriously, who doesn't want to smash stuff up?

But in the paid version I can only imagine the average age getting quite a bit older. At least old enough to the point where you are paying for LFS out of your own pocket.

Coming from a Grand Turismo communtiy years back (GT2, GT3) there was lots of 40+ y old guys racing what we called online racing (just comparing times actualy) we did get together and race some iLink racing too. (6 PS2 conected together via cables) But even there in console racing we hade lots of guys over 30 y old too, but of course most was in the 18 - 30y. There was about 10 guys in the 50´s. Oldest being 59y.

with PC racing, I race weekly with Nascar, rFactor and LFS. we are a group of guys mostly in the 40´s and up with a few younger guys. 2 of us over 50y. we´ve raced Nascar trucks for a few years now, and currently waiting for rFactor Utes mod to continue racing.

We also race GTP in the world online Sports Car endurance championship. (monthly)

Recently we´ve tryed some LFS races, but its a bit hard to tell if it will get much attention in the future, I dont think so.

I like the game, and some of my Finn buddys (40y+) have now bought it and have got into racing it with me. They find Nascar, GPL etc. too hard to race with, LFS has slow cars and wide tracks that makes it easy straight off the block.
Heh, even my brother bought the game so he can watch us race (he dosnt play at all) and now makes an excellent server for us. If cóurse one extra point is that the game has a Finnsih menu for the non english speaking.

Real cars and real tracks are the thing that atracts most serious simmers I suppose, although its not a big issue for me, but I can see how it is for lots of guys my age that i race with. That will be an important thing for many when rFactor modders start releasing real tracks.
Although, with reflexes and eyes getting old and wheary, LFS with wide tracks and slow cars is getting more and more my kinda cup of tee.

I´d realy love to race my Mini in long endurance races.

I think that LFS is just more accesible overall, it's also more open than many other sims. How many other sims allow you to play with a mouse or a keyboard, not many. I also think the community is more open minded and not so stuffy like the older more established sims. The comments in that issue of ASS was the perfect example of how intolerant the supposed 'hardcore' sim racers can be.

i dont think LFS attracts younger people more, i find the age field to be widely spread though its true younger people have more time to play games these days than soem mature lfs members...... also the every spready of home pc's is ading younger players to get online at an earlier age....

maybe the devs should make a graph on lfsworld which would put together all the ages of licensed racers if they have entered their DOB correctly

or someone start an age poll to get some numbers :clapclap:

btw i am 20


mad

Lots of Dads in LFS.

I really don't know anybody in the real world that plays racing games, sims consoles or whatever. They just don't around here. But one thing I noticed when my son's friends come over, if they play LFS, they usually don't like it. they prefer the NFSU type stuff - yet still don't play that either. Now when my friends come over, they actually like playing it. I think it's the wheel though TBH.
You know, to them it's a totally different way to interact with the computer
a mouse and a K/b. But they all like RTS games. Mainly Red Alert. Man we've played that game and it's Variants since 1995... I'm sick of Tesla towers and Tiberium!!!!!!
But online I notice most people that play when I do are adults of some sort a demographic group. there's quite a bit a kids, but mostly adults.

I thought the main driving force behind the game industry were males between 25-35; which buy the most gaming related gear (games/pc/console)

Quote from Gunn :

Lots of Dads in LFS.

One here

Can't wait for my son (3) to be old enough to race against

Well he's 2 years late already then!! Start 'em young!

Quote from tristancliffe :

Well he's 2 years late already then!! Start 'em young!

Actually....
he loves the BL car park - I do the pedals & he does the steering

However....
he's a wrecker and we have to bash the car up so better keep him off-line for a while

I dont think its a younger audiance than in Nascar 2003 thats for sure, that was split like 60/20/20, 60 being the sub 18 year olds, 20% the 18-30 year olds and 20% the older crowd, I see a much higher 18-30 year old % in LFS, and it showes in the racing, I see a lot more skill over here, and a lot more maturity. Most nascar 2003 races ended up with some young kid (12-16) going out full blast and spining out wrecking half the field and starting a huge flame war haha.

It would be great to hear from a father / son playing this game.

My son (30y) isnt interested in racing games, but I have fun racing my nephew however.
A dream would be to race a grandson some day!!!

I think it's the general arcadey feel, not saying there bad, but LFS does not present itself like a sim, that combined with the demo car selection and a drifting are likely to attract the younger players in a way that GPL/N2003 would not.

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

Quote from 5th Earth :

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

Not many.

When I think of you all saying there are alot of young people in LFS, I think of ages under 20. To me at the times that I am racing, it just doesn't seem to be that young of a crowd. The maturity level that I encounter usually is quite good. I know a few who are 20-22, but assume that most are around my age (33). I know Tweak who I believe is 20 I think and there is Gu3st (is that his LFS name?) who is the youngest that I know of and is 13. But then some have surprised me, W.Gooden and Modoff from Team 400 who I always assumed were late 20's to very early 30's. I just recently learned they were 16. Also there is Infiniti, who I knew back in the S2 demo and just learned he turned 16. I must say, I'm impressed with the maturity level of those I do know under the age of 20 as I've known them online for quite a few months since S2 demo and never realized their actual age. It does amaze me how young and old alike can get together anonymously every night racing computer games and having a great time together. And for all you youngsters out there, you can thank us 30 year olds for bringing them to you. What would life for you be like if we didn't bug our parents to death to get an Atari 2600 or Intellevision back 20 years ago. :throwrose :bowdown: :laola:

Quote from 5th Earth :

I think it's mostly because it's simple, straightforward, and open ended. There's no pretentions of a "plot" to worry about, no slogging through pre-generated tournaments, just hop in the car and drive. You don't even have to install anything.

The multiplayer works very well, which is something very few racing games can claim. That's a very big selling point these days.

Finally, I think people really appreciate the developers being so involved in the community. Unlike most games, where you buy the game, maybe download a few patches for serious bugs, and then what you've got is all you're getting, the LFS team are continually improving the game, and seriously considering the opinions of the players. When everyone was complaining about the "Blackwood Bump" and the dangerous chicane, we got an updated track with the bumps smoothed out and the chicane widened. People asked for a high speed track, and we got Westhill. We wanted touring cars, and got the GTRs. How many games can boast improvements like that?

none of which explains why there would be more younger players than in other games ... on the contrary these arguments make you wonder why lfs doesnt have a much lager playerbase than it currently has

IMO it has to because most are tired of other driving games.

Not talking about GPL or NR2003 or RFactor, but it's quite well known nowadays. A well known game usually attracts a lot of people.

BTW, I've played LFS since I was 10.
I'm 12 nowadays, and I can do 1:34s-1:36s? WTF?