Quote from Chris_Kerry :

I think I understand, but that's the same in any type of racing. Moving chicanes and all.

Hotlapping though, I think you see my point.

Si, i see it btw im at the FM Event server doing some practice at SO long. Join if you want. Any cars exept open wheelers

Quote from 510N3D :

so you did many races on the oval and know what you are talking about right?

You're doing it again. The number of laps you've driven on the oval is not a measure of your authority to state your opinion of it. It completely undermines your credibility when you try to assert by implication that it does.

Quote from SamH :

You're doing it again. The number of laps you've driven on the oval is not a measure of your authority to state your opinion of it. It completely undermines your credibility when you try to assert by implication that it does.

no im not, you see the questionmark behind that sentence?

@ SamH:

Yeah everyone can have hís opinion about something. But when you never have driven the cars on the oval to a limit, you cant say how much skill it really needs. I can do a lap at Blackwood in 3 Mins with the BF1 and can say oh yes BL GP doesnt need some skill at all! Thats the same.
There were a lot of Oval events in the past from the FM community almost allways the same drivers were on top, like (Eagle)Racer, Quietscheente or (FM)Evensis, so you need no skill? So it just has been luck that those were allways on top!?
Yesterday i had a league race on Ky National Rev. with FXR...a car turnded right into me, because he couldnt handle the dense traffic...and thats really a skill you are leaning on the oval.

In the end, if you want to be TOP in something you need skill for everything. Just saying the Oval needs no skill because of only 3 left turns is not true.

Quote from 510N3D :

no im not, you see the questionmark behind that sentence?

Yeah, that's why I said it was an implicit assertion. The question you asked was rhetorical.

Quote from SamH :

Yeah, that's why I said it was an implicit assertion. The question you asked was rhetorical.

what about this one: the current oval requires zero skill level

thats the same for me but a bit more offence then my QUESTION.

Quote from 510N3D :

what about this one: the current oval requires zero skill level

thats the same for me but a bit more offence then my QUESTION.

but that wasn't SamH's point! he is saying that if you have an argument with someone else, you shouldn't point at his "stats" as a response, you should try to discuss.

p.s.:
i would say, oval racing requires a 0.08 skill level ( IN LFS! i have driven Nascar 2003, this IS challenging). zero is a little harsh. drag racing however requires only a 0.05 skill level.

@Nobo
I neither stated nor denied that skill is required. I merely drew a line under the suggestion (again) that someone who hasn't driven thousands and thousands of laps around the oval, or achieved =<31.5 second laps, doesn't know what they are talking about. I am adamant that everyone is entitled to their opinion on any circuit, whether they have driven 1 lap or 1 million laps on it.

I have personally driven 1063 laps around the oval, and can state firmly but subjectively, based entirely on my OWN experiences, that:-

1. It is the most mind-numbingly boring track I've ever driven
   
2. Skill requirements are COMPARITIVELY low (i.e. compared with other types of track)
   
3. If I want to race against people that I think are idiots, petty-minded individuals, hotlappers or the most offensive primadonnas, then I am most likely to find them by joining an oval server.

Quote from Fetzo :

but that wasn't SamH's point! he is saying that if you have an argument with someone else, you shouldn't point at his "stats" as a response, you should try to discuss.

p.s.:
i would say, oval racing requires a 0.08 skill level .

i did no point at all i was asking him if he got experiences to build up (which i dont think because he says oval needs no skills and aliens like him dont race tracks that requires no skills j/k) that was my goal and if it sounded like that im sorry and i have to say my english is very poor and i really try to understand whats going on but its not easy ok.

Quote from SamH :

If I want to race against people that I think are idiots, petty-minded individuals, hotlappers or the most offensive primadonnas, then I am most likely to find them by joining an oval server.

i dont like to disscuss with persons that aint have a clue so im out of here. I mean if youre not able to stay/keep(?) objectivity why should i try?

@ SamH

Yeah i agree in some points you said, not completely, especially on point 3 i'm doing not, because, my experiences in public circuit races are that its even worse then on the oval.

I pointed out my point of view because i read this sentence before : "the current oval requires zero skill level"

wasnt from you.

Quote from 510N3D :

i dont like to disscuss with persons that aint have a clue so im out of here. I mean if youre not able to stay/keep(?) objectivity why should i try?

I am one guy sitting in front of a PC, playing a racing simulator with other people I cannot see and don't drink beer with (mostly). My opinion can only BE subjective. I could fake objectivity if you prefer, but it's not going to convince anyone. Opinions are opinions, and we all have them. My opinions are still no less valid than yours, nor yours less than mine

Quote from SamH :

I am one guy sitting in front of a PC, playing a racing simulator with other people I cannot see and don't drink beer with (mostly). My opinion can only BE subjective. I could fake objectivity if you prefer, but it's not going to convince anyone. Opinions are opinions, and we all have them. My opinions are still no less valid than yours, nor yours less than mine

i dont get this i mean ok we all gain experiences in different ways and to speak for myself i was lucky to meet such friendly players on the Oval server like the FM guys are, so i joined them because i had fun, we had and have fun together and that because we are doing races that need skills otherwhise i would not play this game or this track/car combo at all. You aint had that luck and surely you guys where on your own or everytime there where just noobs/idiots (you name it) around when you tried the oval so i understand it just a lil bit. So i mean sure you can have your opinion as long as it makes clear what youre going for but not in that offence way tristan and you are going which in my pov is totally stupid and the only goal is to start/bring this oval - curcuit disscussion foward in a way that is totally senseless. And Objectivity needs facts and there are facts but you guys dont want to believe us so its surely getting subjective for you. Im sure we could talk in a different way but you aint giving us a change so you cant expect a propper answer on this. I mean i really really tried to understand why guys think this way and the only way to get an idea of that is to check lfsworld or simple ask you. But you know and see tristan is not even reply so thats says to me his goal is to bring this disscusion in a light that do not fits to us at all.

And to say this one more time i really have problems with english and maybe i missunderstand some things but you know its not fun for me to see such things and its driving me crazy cause it seems to me its like a never ending story which i dont want.

Quote from tristancliffe :

blahblah...the current oval requires zero skill level ....blahblah

It´s always the same. Boring. Shittalk all the time. I´m sick of that stupid discussions.

Quote from 510N3D :

But you know and see tristan is not even reply so thats says to me his goal is to bring this disscusion in a light that do not fits to us at all.

That maybe because he hasn't been online to reply.

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

That maybe because he hasn't been online to reply.

uhm i mean the post from that stupid munkies thread which is a while ago.

just drive fz5 @ oval, stay on full throttle and tell me afterwards that its easy ...everyone like he/she likes...

IMO any!!!lfs track /car combo needs a certain level of skill 2 drive FAST times (hl/ol)!!!, so useless discussion here again?!

I'm puzzled as to why you guys get so upset about this.

Perhaps you could post some stuff directed at me, like "AS Club in the FOX? You complete puss! That track requires zero skill! You're an idiot!" so I can see if I would take it seriously.

Thanks,
--J.

Yes but you have to break and turn right too...

*runs.








Joke guys, before I get flamed.

Quote from jtr99 :

I'm puzzled as to why you guys get so upset about this.

Perhaps you could post some stuff directed at me, like "AS Club in the FOX? You complete puss! That track requires zero skill! You're an idiot!" so I can see if I would take it seriously.

Thanks,
--J.

because there are allways the same persons about the same subject acting in the same way with the same disoriented arguments. And look at this Thread it got nothing to do with the oval itself but with an area which includes an oval but all they see is that oval and they start argumenting which is absolutely funny to see at one side but on the other side its uhm i cant find any words for this. illepall

Quote from Chris_Kerry :

Yes but you have to break and turn right too...

*runs.








Joke guys, before I get flamed.

:smileyrai

I can see the fun in this track (im talking about the track being suggested). Its a whole other kind of racing as stated, and it may not require as much skill, it is more about tactics and teamwork. As stated earlier, imagine teaming up, driving in trains where the car in the back go up front and you switch places to keep the train going as fast as possible. I think that sounds pretty cool, and it would require coordination between people.

I say +1 to the suggestion. As have been suggested somewhere else, if there where "official mod-teams" this could be a cool track 4 sure, as long as it doesnt hold up the development of other, more mainstream tracks.

Quote :

Originally Posted by Chris_Kerry
Yes but you have to break and turn right too...

*runs.

Joke guys, before I get flamed.

you can run but you can`t hide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :haha:

Quote from djdolber :

I can see the fun in this track (im talking about the track being suggested). Its a whole other kind of racing as stated, and it may not require as much skill, it is more about tactics and teamwork. As stated earlier, imagine teaming up, driving in trains where the car in the back go up front and you switch places to keep the train going as fast as possible. I think that sounds pretty cool, and it would require coordination between people.

I say +1 to the suggestion. As have been suggested somewhere else, if there where "official mod-teams" this could be a cool track 4 sure, as long as it doesnt hold up the development of other, more mainstream tracks.

Good to see that some people are wise enough to see the fun between "black and white".

BTW, you even don´t need to switch places. There is a nice bug in lfs that allows you to push openwheelers. Sometimes it´s fun to use that bug for :bump: -drafting.

I didn't reply in the other thread because I don't, believe it or not, read every thread, even once I've replied to it. This is one I've missed, and I've just read your remarks. It's all BS. You strike me as clearly NOT stupid, but how you can say that Oval racing in LFS requires any skill is beyond me. In real life it takes skill - of course it does. But the 8 lap races in LFS, with computer controlled kicking to pits, silly messages and rude drivers doesn't make it skill worthy.

I have popped into the oval junkies server once or twice in the not too distant past, but I never have the slightest of urges to drive on the same track as those currently there.

The oval can be driven well by anyone, of any natural skill level, simply by doing a million laps, which as everyone uses the easiest and fastest car, takes about forty five minutes. A road course (maybe AS Club is a poor example above as it only has two corners, but the last is a lot harder than it looks) responds differently. You have the skills of passing, turning left and accelerating just like an oval. You also have pitstop strategy in longer races, just like an oval. But a road course also requires braking skill. Turning right skill. Power application skill.

Does it surprise you that more people go from F1 to oval racing successfully that from oval racing to F1 successfully? The simple fact is that oval racing is easier. It's popularity in LFS is because noobs want to go as fast as possible without learning anything. The oval is ideal for this, but unfortunately some people get stuck in it's trap forever, and never learn racing.

I would pay £100 to have to oval either removed, or removed and replaced with something that isn't flat out with minimum downforce. I quite enjoy Kyoto Ring in the GTR cars, as long as the race is 75 laps MINIMUM, because you have to balance your entry speed with being quick, without wrecking your tyres. That is why, although NASCAR is easier than F1, both are infinitely preferrable to IRL/Champ Car/Whatever it's called this month.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I would pay £100 to have to oval either removed, or removed and replaced with something that isn't flat out with minimum downforce.

NO!!!! because then we'd get all the oval people populating racing servers which wouldn't be pretty