Speaking of religion, let's not forget Romney is a Mormon.

The Mormon 'church' was started by a con man from New England, who eventually died trying to shoot his way out of jail. The cult was then taken over by his right-hand man Brigham Young, a violent racist misogynist.

They have some pretty strict doctrine in their third testament (the one that was given to Joseph Smith on golden plates by the archangel Gabriel, but nobody was allowed to see them and they vanished once he'd finished translating them [he was later given some more mysterious plates to translate which he declared were written by the descendents of Abraham, only for the guy who provided to plates to respond that he'd copied the 'hieroglyphs' off tea crates shipped from China]), but because whoever is the current leader of the church is believed to be a prophet, they can each successively re-write the word of god however they see fit.

Doesn't seem to stop the republicans from thinking this guy from one of America's weirdest cults (they have to wear special underpants with masonic symbols on them. I am not making this up) would make a great president.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

They have some pretty strict doctrine in their third testament (the one that was given to Joseph Smith on golden plates by the archangel Gabriel, but nobody was allowed to see them and they vanished once he'd finished translating them [he was later given some more mysterious plates to translate which he declared were written by the descendents of Abraham, only for the guy who provided to plates to respond that he'd copied the 'hieroglyphs' off tea crates shipped from China])

South Park

Btw, I think all this religious discussion leads to be very off topic. I mean when it directly deals with the candidates, I can understand a certain discussion but that we now have a discussion why a certain religion is bad and why another one is better or worse...

Anyone who is full on creationist, earth is 6000 years old and dinosaur fossils are a test of your faith style should never be allowed any power. All religions are bad TFalke, but Mormons are at the top of the crazy scale. Extremist Christians are 100x more mental than the extremist Muslims that Mike seems to be terrified of.

Has Romney released his tax returns yet? I really do wonder what they show that he doesn't want anyone to see, massive avoidance of tax?

I believe I'll be proven right in time. You say it is wrong to have a high birth rate because the world is overcrowded. The birthrates are not going down all over the world, just in white societies. If an average European birthrate is 1.6 (generous) and Sudan's is 7.6 the question is who do you want the world overcrowded with? People who built an advanced technological democracy or people who believe if you touch an infidel your penis will retract into your body? (true story). The low white birthrates in Europe are so low it can only be described as a self-inflicted genocide. No society in the history of the world has recovered from a sustained birthrate below 1.5. Ever. Spain is at 1.2 Italy 1.3.

No one answered my first question about what will happen to the Turkish immigrants in the second video. Why do they deserve to be Germans if they hate Germany, Germans and democracy? And on top of that don't value education at all? Were they worth bringing in if they beat their white schoolmates into submission as was described by the Muslim in the video?

When you look at the state of human rights and overall quality of life in majority Muslim nations I must not be the only one who sees that our way is vastly better in every single way. Islam cannot be separated from politics as the Imam in the first video made clear Allah is the legislator.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Speaking of religion, let's not forget Romney is a Mormon.

The Mormon 'church' was started by a con man from New England, who eventually died trying to shoot his way out of jail. The cult was then taken over by his right-hand man Brigham Young, a violent racist misogynist.

They have some pretty strict doctrine in their third testament (the one that was given to Joseph Smith on golden plates by the archangel Gabriel, but nobody was allowed to see them and they vanished once he'd finished translating them [he was later given some more mysterious plates to translate which he declared were written by the descendents of Abraham, only for the guy who provided to plates to respond that he'd copied the 'hieroglyphs' off tea crates shipped from China]), but because whoever is the current leader of the church is believed to be a prophet, they can each successively re-write the word of god however they see fit.

Doesn't seem to stop the republicans from thinking this guy from one of America's weirdest cults (they have to wear special underpants with masonic symbols on them. I am not making this up) would make a great president.

And white men enslaved black men, does this mean were still racist

Quote from flymike91 :

I believe I'll be proven right in time. You say it is wrong to have a high birth rate because the world is overcrowded. The birthrates are not going down all over the world, just in white societies. If an average European birthrate is 1.6 (generous) and Sudan's is 7.6 the question is who do you want the world overcrowded with? People who built an advanced technological democracy or people who believe if you touch an infidel your penis will retract into your body? (true story). The low white birthrates in Europe are so low it can only be described as a self-inflicted genocide. No society in the history of the world has recovered from a sustained birthrate below 1.5. Ever. Spain is at 1.2 Italy 1.3.

No one answered my first question about what will happen to the Turkish immigrants in the second video. Why do they deserve to be Germans if they hate Germany, Germans and democracy? And on top of that don't value education at all? Were they worth bringing in if they beat their white schoolmates into submission as was described by the Muslim in the video?

When you look at the state of human rights and overall quality of life in majority Muslim nations I must not be the only one who sees that our way is vastly better in every single way. Islam cannot be separated from politics as the Imam in the first video made clear Allah is the legislator.

Less developed countries tend to have a higher birthrate, but lower quality of life, it is basic social science taught when I was 15. (I don't know how advanced your education system is) Quality of life over quantity of life, is pretty much a common understanding in the modern era.

About the "white supermacy" theory, if a culture is vastly superior, it need not to be worried about a being polluted by a lessor culture, because your population is more educated and can separate good from the bad. While you are smart enough to acknowledge the advancement of western culture, you are not yet wise enough to see that even in a less advanced culture, there are sources of reflection and lessons to be learnt, it is sign of a narrow world view and from what I saw, such world view contributed a lot to the right wing extremist idealogy. Another reason is people who carry such view seldom or never enjoy the close company of someone from a vastly different culture, if you don't know someone personally you will be stuck into a generalized perception of people, while the truth is within the same race, people are diversed and the basics of humanity remain mostly the same.

I am pretty emphatic when it comes to right wing extremists, because their life is an inward spiral of fear against the unknown, which they cover up by demonizing others, and with the false sense of superiority, they can temporarily fool themselves of their insecurity.

People with real strength are not afraid of challenges from a lesser enemy, if you are in constant fear and paranoia, you are not as strong as you make yourself out to be.

E

Quote from flymike91 :

No one answered my first question about what will happen to the Turkish immigrants in the second video. Why do they deserve to be Germans if they hate Germany, Germans and democracy? And on top of that don't value education at all? Were they worth bringing in not be separated from politics as the Imam in the first video made clear Allah is the legislator.

You shouldn't believe every video. Especially if they deal with Germany there is a high chance of Nazis being involved in the production. The German problems with immigrants are caused mainly by the hypocrite society which cherishes the multicultural bits but discriminates them in the daily life. I would say there are more Germans wishing the democracy to end than people with immigration background do.

Birth rates are also down in Japan and South Korea, Mikey. There goes your "white societies" theory.

Just remember those boys in those German schools because in a few years they will be voting and having children. When Muslims gain significant political power in Europe do you think they will vote for the same tolerant and democratic policies that allowed them to colonize your countries? Will they extend to you the same human rights you extended them? If the countries they came from are representative of the societies they build then I suspect you are in for a very rough ride. Just watch how the white Germans in the video are beaten, robbed, and scared by the Muslims in their school who reject the best education the world can offer them. These people are the future of Germany and Europe. The birthrates cannot lie.

You can't take a handful or bad examples as a cross section of an entire race, you just can't.

About Muslim raise to power, if you are implying they can out reproduce the white and dominate the demographic landscape, (cos surely if they are inherently evil and backwards white won't vote for them.). how many people you are talking in a generation? Raising children isn't exactly cheap.

Islam is not a race, for one. It is a sociopolitical ideology with faith tacked on.

There are fewer white people because they won't have children, and there are going to be many more Muslims because they have many children with multiple wives in some cases. It is exactly that simple. Raising children is cheap when welfare is easy to get. The Imam said in the first video that Muslims are absolutely outproducing white people and it only serves to propagate the hatred of Western democracy he and many other Imams preach in Europe.

Even if we pretend only 5% of the 50 million Muslims in Europe hold radical views (2,500,000), then how many will be radicalized when there are 150 million?, a lot, unless Europeans can convince those radical Muslims to pledge allegiance to their countries and secularism rather than Islam. It will not happen. Islam is inferior in many ways but Muslims are far superior in strength of spirit and soon in numbers to whites in Europe.

How did you grow to become so hateful of so many people from one religion, Mike?

Their fascist ideology of Sharia is the antithesis of everything that the enlightenment brought Europe. While the west came to value rationalism, education, scientific reasoning, tolerance, human rights and democracy, Islam rejects all of those values. There could be nothing so polar opposite to the aspirations of an advanced technological society than the primitive dogma that is imposed by Sharia, a policy that a full third of UK Muslims under age 30 say they would rather live under.

Muslims know how weak-willed Europeans are and how unsure of themselves they have become post-nationalism. They know that they can do anything to your people without punishment, especially once they are the majority. They use your extreme liberal politics to get away with spreading fascist politics in mosques under the protection of a religion. The second video I posted clearly shows that the attitude of many Muslim immigrants towards their host country is hateful. They beat and rob their schoolmates for fun and prestige in their community. The worst part is, dreamy-eyed Europeans see this and only say that they have not done enough for these poor people!

Islam, according the the Imam in the video, is a political movement. Unlike the more benign Abrahamic religions, Islam has no separation between the sacred and the secular, and therefore it's followers cannot live in a secular democracy. The fact that the experiment of multiculturalism has been an admitted failure in Germany and the UK is proof of that inescapable fact.

Do you have any reputable sources for the claims you make (especially in terms of numbers and support for things such as sharia law)?

Quote from flymike91 :

Unlike the more benign Abrahamic religions

This comment is also worth pointing out, but I won't comment on it.

I think it is the just same for Christianity, which in its most fundamental form, it is an dictatorship, where all human values are buried under god's value, and you get minority groups like West Boro Baptist Church. However in the real world there are many who are under the christian umbrella but with different personal interpretations on their religion, the want for freedom is a universal humanistic instinct, we all came from a dark age of suppression which we grew out of.

The same is for Islams, the ideology and doctrines of Islam has its suppressive and dark elements, but Muslims are also just people, in this day and age of overwhelming information technology I don't believe any single entity can push a hive minded agenda, even the Illuminati and their moon brain control signals. (note: I am not totally serious)

From my perspective, in China, even with its control on internet and all sorts of censorship, the progress to create a totalitarian state is met with huge resistance, its an agenda that is gradually moving backwards, the world is an accelerating entropy, and with all the intertwining of ideas and knowledge, fragmentation is the natural force, not homogeneity

People tend to use religion and cultural differences as an excuse, to let loose their greed and abusive nature, that is the only thing that I take away, the religion itself is just a vessel, like Nazism, in the very end it is just about people's lack of understanding and communication, a fear of the unknown, and to settle their fear, they find assurance in these ideologies, and in turn it rationalize or even justifies their fear.

But in the very end, religion and radical ideas is not a cause, it is merely a symptom.

The difference is that there are no Christian theocratic nations where Christianity isn't just a religion but law, where apostasy means execution by the state. There used to be, but then Western society advanced past that point in the 16th century, 500 years ago.

Here is the poll I was quoting.

Quote :

Aug. 7, 2006 update: GfK NOP Social Research has published a survey, "Attitudes to Living in Britain," and made the findings available. Despite the generic title, only Muslims were polled. They numbered 1,000 in all, and included young and old, male and female.

Refer to the United Kingdom as "my country": 49 percent.
Agree with the idea that Muslims should keep themselves separate from non-Muslims: 4 percent.
Prefer to live under Sharia law: 30 percent.
Wish to see Britain as an Islamic state: 28 percent.
Punish the people who published the Danish cartoons: 78 percent.
Arrest and prosecute British people who insult Islam: 68 percent.
The Jewish Holocaust did not happen or has been exaggerated: 19 percent.
9/11 was a conspiracy by America and Israel: 45 percent. (Plus 35 percent reply "don't know.")
Princess Diana was killed to stop her marrying a Muslim: 36 percent.
Likely that British Muslims will become victims of extreme religious persecution: 56 percent.
Agree that the July 2005 transport bombings were justified because of British support for the war on terror: 22 percent. (Of note: 31 percent of young Muslims agree, compared to 14 percent of those 45 and over.)
Can understand why young British Muslims might want to carry out suicide operations: 13 percent.
Think that a Muslim who knew about an act of terrorism being planned by another Muslim and did not report it to the authorities is not at all to be blamed: 9 percent.

Quote from flymike91 :

Here is the poll I was quoting.

From the same poll:

• 48% never attend mosques, 19% attended once and 6% only attend on special occasions
  
• 38% indicate that they belong to both Britain and Islam 'very strongly'
  
• 81% strongly disagree that Muslims should keep themselves separate from non-Muslims
  
• 70% would rather stay in Britain (without Sharia law) than move to another country with Sharia law
  
• 63% feel that hostility towards Muslims has increased (significantly or slightly) since 7/7
  
• 80% can't understand why British Muslims might want to carry out suicide operations
  
• 85% disagree that it is acceptable for religious or political groups to use violence
  
• No one group got more than 19% support when asked who represented Muslims politically. This speaks to disenfranchisement.
  
• 49% would allow their daughter to make up her own mind on wearing a hijab. This doesn't seem particularly high, but it speaks towards a more progressive movement amongst British Muslims
  

I would agree with (at least to an extent) that the 30% support for Sharia law (along with the other findings you have quoted) is worrying, but it should be contrasted with those above. It would have been interesting to discover what the people questioned thought towards the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the very strong support for Israel from the US. There also seems to be a certain degree of disenfranchisement (as I noted above) in some of the answers. When people feel they are not connected to local/national politics they are generally going to take a dimmer view towards their country and its policies (just look at the domestic support for the US administrations during the Vietnam war).

Additionally, a sample size of only 1000 seems fairly low, especially considering the poll attempts to look at patterns among Muslims in different parts of the UK.

Quote from flymike91 :

There used to be, but then Western society advanced past that point in the 16th century, 500 years ago.

Given how rapidly civilization has progressed in the last century, I would expect the differences in advancement to narrow down a lot quicker, given - grasp - multiculturalism to flourish.

With regards to Britain, it's worth noting that only 4.6% of the population are Muslim. When you look at that figure combined with the results of that poll it really put into perspective the real situation.

Again, I put it to you that flymike is doing nothing but scaremongering and exaggerating . His ridiculous claims are nothing but the kind of rhetoric we hear from the BNP. They bare no relevance to reality.

Quote from flymike91 :

Their fascist ideology of Sharia is the antithesis of everything that the enlightenment brought Europe. While the west came to value rationalism, education, scientific reasoning, tolerance, human rights and democracy, Islam rejects all of those values.

Hmm. Perhaps you should be warning of the dangers of allowing your christian right to worm their way into power rather than worrying about Muslims in Europe. Your christian fundamentalists do not value rationalism, education, scientific reasoning, tolerance OR human rights!

You also seem to be struggling with the rationalism, scientific reasoning, tolerance and human rights yourself.

I can't work out on who's side Mike is . . . . Is he a muslim with some radical views? Or a right wing nationalist who's scared out of his tiny little mind?

And as for that pole, give me the breakdowns of the 'old,young, male, and female' as well.

that pole seemed to contradiuct everything I've read that mike was trying to argue aobut.

I don't understand.

well, Mikes source of information seems to be pretty biased. I mean he basically tries to educate us about whats happening on our doorstep.

I could go on about the muslims situation here in Germany, but I suspect ma english is not good enough to get my point right, and Mike is not open for our view.

and we're pretty offtopic already (then again, if he is representative for american voters ... )

99.9% of the population of Earth are moderates. It's a human condition. It's how we have reached the point in civilisation that we are at now, and have done so throughout history.

We have a civilisation because we get along together. It's what us humans do best. It's biology, it's simple, it's fact.

but then there is 0.1% who go and ruin for the rest of us. And I'll put politicians, Bankers, anyone from the BNP and any other Nationalist parties, Flymike and his ilk and anyone who uses their religion as an excuse to kill people. And I include Christians, Muslims, Jews, Bahai . . . Whatever theistic life choice you make and then use as an excuse to hurt other people. Especially Bhuddists. You gotta watch them Bhuddists. They come around pretending to be all nicey nicey and kind to animals and WHAM!!!! They've destroyed the world and everything we hold dear.

Damn Bhuddists, taking over the world one quiet word after another. Them and Ninja's.

Damn - he's onto us.
I thought the Ninjas were secret........

You guys have restored much of my faith in humanity.

Quote from ACCAkut :

well, Mikes source of information seems to be pretty biased. I mean he basically tries to educate us about whats happening on our doorstep.

I could go on about the muslims situation here in Germany, but I suspect ma english is not good enough to get my point right, and Mike is not open for our view.

and we're pretty offtopic already (then again, if he is representative for american voters ... )

You're right in all points.