Quote from Shade Of Neon :

If so, isnt drag racing about speed? so to be the best and get reputation you need to SHOWOFF speed and talent? To get sponsers in Circuit racing you need to SHOWOFF you skill with controll of the car. So your telling me that showing off is just a waste?

Regards,

Neon

Nope.

I've never really seen the issue of this. Racing is not drifting and drifting is not racing. Racing is going from A to B in the least amount of time, drifting is to score points.

Doesn't matter whether you take circuit racing, drag racing, hillclimb, rally etc. Winner is the person who gets from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Drifting is about showing off, not getting from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Therefor, two seperate sports.

Any sport with a judge is pointless. Be it with horses, gymnastics, drifting, etc. Sports should be easily measurable (eg score most amount of points, get from A to B in the least amount of time). Any sport which includes a judge who is measuring things you do is a sport I cannot take serious.

Aside of that, I don't really see why you would use something to 'showoff' instead of going fast. Doesn't matter if they're using cars, horses, bikes, skateboards etc. Doesn't mean it is not good, or you're not having a talent, just don't see the point or need.

Quote from Sternendaal :

Nope.

I've never really seen the issue of this. Racing is not drifting and drifting is not racing. Racing is going from A to B in the least amount of time, drifting is to score points.

Doesn't matter whether you take circuit racing, drag racing, hillclimb, rally etc. Winner is the person who gets from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Drifting is about showing off, not getting from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Therefor, two seperate sports.

Any sport with a judge is pointless. Be it with horses, gymnastics, drifting, etc. Sports should be easily measurable (eg score most amount of points, get from A to B in the least amount of time). Any sport which includes a judge who is measuring things you do is a sport I cannot take serious.

Aside of that, I don't really see why you would use something to 'showoff' instead of going fast. Doesn't matter if they're using cars, horses, bikes, skateboards etc. Doesn't mean it is not good, or you're not having a talent, just don't see the point or need.

WTF Drifting is not Racing?! Drifting is ALL about Racing and speed!!!

Drift is the fastest way of driving a corner, especially on a Downhill.
The only reason why they dont drift in most Motorsports are the Tyres. Cause they drive too many rounds and need to safe there tyres.
But on Mountain you race Max. 3 Minutes so Drift is a good option to drive good times on a Mountain, even if not that easy.



And about Points
Indeed its just a waste of time to drift for Points.
We're not in D1GP here, we have no skilled judges just some realy dumb server sided Point-System what u can Cheat with Drifting on straights ect.

Thats it.
The most Points-Drifter are just kidz who has no idea about Drifting and Drives Slalom on straights to get more points, and call it Arab-Drift haha XD.

They just ruin the real Drift, a advanced Racing Technique to drive corners really fast.

Quote from RiddinGT :

WTF Drifting is not Racing?! Drifting is ALL about Racing and speed!!!

Drift is the fastest way of driving a corner, especially on a Downhill.
The only reason why they dont drift in most Motorsports are the Tyres. Cause they drive too many rounds and need to safe there tyres.
But on Mountain you race Max. 3 Minutes so Drift is a good option to drive good times on a Mountain, even if not that easy.



And about Points
Indeed its just a waste of time to drift for Points.
We're not in D1GP here, we have no skilled judges just some realy dumb server sided Point-System what u can Cheat with Drifting on straights ect.

Thats it.
The most Points-Drifter are just kidz who has no idea about Drifting and Drives Slalom on straights to get more points, and call it Arab-Drift haha XD.

They just ruin the real Drift, a advanced Racing Technique to drive corners really fast.

im not sure if you understand but if i was in a xrt drifting around a corner and a xrt was grip racing on the inside line while i was attempting to even get a straight lline in the inside i would get passed and destroyed, when someone drifts its about having fun. and that's how the sport started with people driving on the mountains and going sideways for fun.

as for the track i think we would all be happy with having ebisu on the game, personally drifting the japenese touge would be be fun and all but if it was in the game you would need to have a sustained challenge like driving on the right side of the road in a right hand drive car with traffic in the middle of the night. and i think that would just be way too much to sustain the fun factor and after a while it would get boring going on the same touge over and over again. so i think a randomizer for the track would be a fun way to keep it fresh or maybe have the akagi and osaka touge from real life. idk, i think that its a cool idea but it would soon wear off on me so id just like all of the ebisu courses.

Quote from RiddinGT :

Drift is the fastest way of driving a corner, especially on a Downhill.

Yes and no.

A tire is known to have its peak grip at about 20% of sliding, anything beyond that point will end in much less grip than staying below that percentage.

In LFS we can see this in RAC and specially in the LX6 where the tail should be sliding all the time. But tires must be gripping (no huge skids, wheel spin, etc). Is that called drifting? No. Is it grip racing? I'd say yes, but I'll accept a "almost" as a valid answer.


PS: hairpins may be an exceptions.

Quote from RiddinGT :

WTF Drifting is not Racing?! Drifting is ALL about Racing and speed!!!

Drift is the fastest way of driving a corner, especially on a Downhill.
The only reason why they dont drift in most Motorsports are the Tyres. Cause they drive too many rounds and need to safe there tyres.
But on Mountain you race Max. 3 Minutes so Drift is a good option to drive good times on a Mountain, even if not that easy.



And about Points
Indeed its just a waste of time to drift for Points.
We're not in D1GP here, we have no skilled judges just some realy dumb server sided Point-System what u can Cheat with Drifting on straights ect.

Thats it.
The most Points-Drifter are just kidz who has no idea about Drifting and Drives Slalom on straights to get more points, and call it Arab-Drift haha XD.

They just ruin the real Drift, a advanced Racing Technique to drive corners really fast.

Drifting as a driving technique is indeed racing but has nothing to do with "style" or "showoff". It is purely used to go faster from A to B, altough at a cost, not to impress the crowd.

Drifting as in showing off (Formula Drift etc) has nothing to do with racing but is a seperate sport. Just like Cycling and BMX Freestyle are two different sports altough they both use a bicycle.

Just because drifting is not racing doesn't mean there is no overlap

Quote from RiddinGT :

The only reason why they dont drift in most Motorsports are the Tyres. Cause they drive too many rounds and need to safe there tyres.
But on Mountain you race Max. 3 Minutes so Drift is a good option to drive good times on a Mountain, even if not that easy.

to much initial d man, too much... go drift on wtac and see how you do against the other people.

If Forza Has It... Why not LFS?

Quote from EHR11 :

If Forza Has It... Why not LFS?

Yeah exactly. Forza also has more cars... Why not LFS?

Quote from Ian.H :

A rhetorical question?
And that pretentious name is one reason to ignore anything he says. I've seen that "drift bible" movie.. my bro and I hadn't laughed so hard since watching Jimmy Jones or Lee Evans on stage

And there you've just proven you have no idea either thus just nulled your argument... it has _nothing_ to do with racing, but _everything_ about posing / showing off.
Regards,
Ian

+1 for mindlessly hating. As a point of reference, New Zealands Mad Mike has the skills to take corners on the pukekohe v8 track, large margins faster than a v8 supercar, whilst completely sideways, exhibiting complete control of the car.

Racing == Drifting, and before the haters jump on this wagon, realistically here, a comparison of racing (in the manner you speak) to drifting (where you label drifters solely as hoons in car parks) is both stupid, and ignorant.

Its a skill, as much so as racing, and is becoming one of the fastest growing racing styles (see, its even a style) in the world.

I read between the lines of drift haters for a while, and really, beyond the pigheaded quiff thats being fronted, the only issue you have is drifters with no manners, ruining a race. And it IS an annoyance, I do know, which is why when im drifting on any server thats not specifically drift labelled, I happily pull right out of the racing lines when any cars come close, even if I have to bail on what would have been a perfect powerslide. Manners man, thats the issue here, not this apartheid crap im reading.

Quote from Sternendaal :

Nope.

I've never really seen the issue of this. Racing is not drifting and drifting is not racing. Racing is going from A to B in the least amount of time, drifting is to score points.

Doesn't matter whether you take circuit racing, drag racing, hillclimb, rally etc. Winner is the person who gets from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Drifting is about showing off, not getting from A to B in the lowest amount of time. Therefor, two seperate sports.

Any sport with a judge is pointless. Be it with horses, gymnastics, drifting, etc. Sports should be easily measurable (eg score most amount of points, get from A to B in the least amount of time). Any sport which includes a judge who is measuring things you do is a sport I cannot take serious.

Aside of that, I don't really see why you would use something to 'showoff' instead of going fast. Doesn't matter if they're using cars, horses, bikes, skateboards etc. Doesn't mean it is not good, or you're not having a talent, just don't see the point or need.

Sometimes drifting (oversteering) is the fastest way around the corner. Rally is a good example. You can get thru a mountain pass with lots of narrow, sharp turns with pulling the e-brake, go in oversteering, leave the corner with greater speed... or slow down to 15kmh, find your 'fast line', lose time with accelerating again.

Yeah the drifting most of the ppl think of is a showoff, a big fun. Showing off your skills of keeping your car oversteered, keeping it on track, keeping high speed, high angles...

Also i dont see why would people say NO for a chance to get a new kind of track, what others might enjoy. If you dont want to use a touge track, then dont, but dont kill the fun of other people. my comment is not only aimed you, but did not want to quote all the haters.

Haters gonna hate. Drifting is fun, and you need loads of experience and skill. I also like it, because anyone can enjoy and learn it, without investing super loads of money... And its not that dangerous like rally or any track races :P
And yeah touge racing is not = show drifting

Quote from Whiskey :

Yes and no.

A tire is known to have its peak grip at about 20% of sliding, anything beyond that point will end in much less grip than staying below that percentage.

In LFS we can see this in RAC and specially in the LX6 where the tail should be sliding all the time. But tires must be gripping (no huge skids, wheel spin, etc). Is that called drifting? No. Is it grip racing? I'd say yes, but I'll accept a "almost" as a valid answer.


PS: hairpins may be an exceptions.

So essentially, You want to be at a 15 degree angle to the way your car is actually moving, for it to be at peak grip. Learn something new everyday I guess

Just clarifying:

Like Sternendaal said, Racing is going from A to B in the lowest amount of time, if you are going foward, backward, sideways, upside down or flying, doesn't matter...

That said, i must highlight this part: "going from A to B in the lowest amount of time"
This is what defines "racing". Not how you do it, but the fact that you are competing with others to see who is faster.

So finally:

If you are talking about sliding just for the sake of it, for showing off to others, without competing about who is the faster, then it is not racing...
If you talk about sliding the car to get a corner faster in a race, then its racing....
What the heck it changes if its racing or not, i don't know...

Simple

Quote from GraemsayBuey :

So essentially, You want to be at a 15 degree angle to the way your car is actually moving, for it to be at peak grip. Learn something new everyday I guess

Kind of, not 15º, but usually on a RWD you should be at sliding your rear at 1-2º.
ABS systems let the wheels slip/block at about 30% to brake in less distance.

BTW, cant we just adopt/convert rfactor tracks? they have many mountain passes...

Quote from Si Mclaren :

Just clarifying:

Like Sternendaal said, Racing is going from A to B in the lowest amount of time, if you are going foward, backward, sideways, upside down or flying, doesn't matter...

That said, i must highlight this part: "going from A to B in the lowest amount of time"
This is what defines "racing". Not how you do it, but the fact that you are competing with others to see who is faster.

So finally:

If you are talking about sliding just for the sake of it, for showing off to others, without competing about who is the faster, then it is not racing...
If you talk about sliding the car to get a corner faster in a race, then its racing....
What the heck it changes if its racing or not, i don't know...

Simple

I agree.
Drift is not a race. Drift is an Art! The Art of Driving…

Quote from Si Mclaren :

Just clarifying:

Like Sternendaal said, Racing is going from A to B in the lowest amount of time, if you are going foward, backward, sideways, upside down or flying, doesn't matter...

That said, i must highlight this part: "going from A to B in the lowest amount of time"
This is what defines "racing". Not how you do it, but the fact that you are competing with others to see who is faster.

So finally:

If you are talking about sliding just for the sake of it, for showing off to others, without competing about who is the faster, then it is not racing...
If you talk about sliding the car to get a corner faster in a race, then its racing....
What the heck it changes if its racing or not, i don't know...

Simple

There is a lot more to racing than what you describe. Racing is sometimes done going from point A to point A around a circuit. Sometimes several laps. And it does indeed matter how you do it. For instance you're usually not allowed to short-cut over the grass.

If drifting equals racing is irrelevant to the topic. However, the fact that this type of course would greatly benefit both racers and drifters, and whoever does something in between is relevant. Also, there is no current resemblance of this type of course. In my opinion, this is one of the things LFS currently needs the most.

Quote :

BTW, cant we just adopt/convert rfactor tracks? they have many mountain passes...

No. You can't just officially import other peoples work into a game like that. Also, there would still be a lot work that needs to be done. Like adding the collisions mesh.

however u can make lfs cars into rfactor and there are hillclimb tracks on it. Tho rfactor sucks like any other game out there

Quote from e2mustang :

however u can make lfs cars into rfactor and there are hillclimb tracks on it.

That's because it's done by the community. Communities usually never care about copyright and stuff.

Quote from pärtan :

That's because it's done by the community. Communities usually never care about copyright and stuff.

yea rfactor mountain passes are done by random ppl... no copyrights. So i dont think we would have problems using their tracks.

Also LFS community is trying to get something done

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOsZjMsp2M

add some hills and rocks and we are done.

Quote from VinceKouki :

yea rfactor mountain passes are done by random ppl... no copyrights. So i dont think we would have problems using their tracks.

Also LFS community is trying to get something done

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxOsZjMsp2M

add some hills and rocks and we are done.

I don't think you know how copyright works. Just because the tracks are made by 'random' people doesn't mean anyone can use them however they want. Especially not the developers of a commercial product. In addition to that, the LFS devs don't want to use content made by this community, so why would they take content from a different community?

Quote from pärtan :

I don't think you know how copyright works. Just because the tracks are made by 'random' people doesn't mean anyone can use them however they want. Especially not the developers of a commercial product. In addition to that, the LFS devs don't want to use content made by this community, so why would they take content from a different community?

Im not talking about the devs using it.Maybe there is a good programmer in our community who could make a converter or convert a track. rfactor community uses all our tracks and cars. we could do the same, if we were open for it.

also i can do some c++ c# if needed, still a newbie but can help do simple tasks


and anywayas there is an autocross mountain pass coming out soon :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?f ... mbedded&v=7wo7kpCV6VE

Quote from VinceKouki :

Im not talking about the devs using it.Maybe there is a good programmer in our community who could make a converter or convert a track. rfactor community uses all our tracks and cars. we could do the same, if we were open for it.

If a bunch of mod tracks came out for LFS, it would ruin the game. It's one of the reasons to why LFS is more successful than rFactor. The fact that everyone got the same content and that people don't need to download mods to be able to play online against other people.

Edit: At least I think LFS is more successful :P

Quote from pärtan :

If a bunch of mod tracks came out for LFS, it would ruin the game. It's one of the reasons to why LFS is more successful than rFactor. The fact that everyone got the same content and that people don't need to download mods to be able to play online against other people.

Edit: At least I think LFS is more successful :P

LFS is better, thats why i dont just go play rfactor and drive on mountain passes. I want to do that in LFS. I dont really care about multiplayer,i would be pleased if i could playon mountain passes SP mp would be sick tho... AND you never HAVE to download a track mod if you didnt want to. we have the same content (mostly), but if someone needs extra stuff he can just get it... better said: he could, if we had that extra stuff he ( I ) needed

I lived on a Mountain Top for many years, and consitently these are to me the roads that are most fun to drive. I would love to see a Togue road with uphill/downhill available. We already have enough race tracks, lets see some more "realtime" style roads or at least a some Togue options.

This is the road I drove like every day:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/ph ... 09&type=2&theater


And anyone who doesn't think that looks like fun is confused in my opinion:
http://youtu.be/QbC_zSY2Jt0

Budman

Such tracks would be cool, but I'm not sure if it fits in the LFS 'picture'. This sounds more like a track for people to drift on.