All the small updates are the ones that make the big difference.

Sure, I Edge, I won't lie, I ofc. am eagerly waiting for S3 and what not, but a small update which gives me more to play with in the autocross at least keeps the waiting time less painfull

And belive me, people with immagination can create great things out of it

Quote from The Very End :

All the small updates are the ones that make the big difference.

Sure, I Edge, I won't lie, I ofc. am eagerly waiting for S3 and what not, but a small update which gives me more to play with in the autocross at least keeps the waiting time less painfull

And belive me, people with immagination can create great things out of it

I just dont see the need for "floating objects" when there is already a way to do it. Everyone QQs about cruise servers and how this is a "racing sim" yet now everyone is jumping on this bandwagon like it adds to realism or something.

It doesn't, it is going to make crude looking "bridges" and take away from the visual beauty that is already there.

Quote from cargame.nl :

This is already been done by WS • Metropolis .. Should check out that server when you have time. Pretty funny, looks like a roller coaster. They hex edit the layout file they say.

Its funny. Doesnt do any harm. So why not

It isnt made by HEX editing, there is ClaViCo insim program which allows you to put objects "in air" (using IS_AXM, think). But at the moment its possible to make objects appear "in air" only if you are "out of bounds" (off track).
In new version it will be possible to add objects "in air" also on track

Quote from edge3147 :

I just dont see the need for "floating objects" when there is already a way to do it. Everyone QQs about cruise servers and how this is a "racing sim" yet now everyone is jumping on this bandwagon like it adds to realism or something.

It doesn't, it is going to make crude looking "bridges" and take away from the visual beauty that is already there.

The main problem about creating constructions like bridges in LFS now is that you canot put objects in air above the racetrack area. It got to be outside track, due to a object check thing. This is what Scawen is thinking of maybe doing a change to, and those two extra autocross objects will make it even easier

Realistic - no, but it provides good fun.
It's like the Destruction Derby races - totally retarded really, but still I love them so much. There is nothing more satisfying than beeing allowed to wreck the shit out of the rest, and claim the title "best wrecker"

Quote from The Very End :

Realistic - no, but it provides good fun.
It's like the Destruction Derby races - totally retarded really, but still I love them so much. There is nothing more satisfying than beeing allowed to wreck the shit out of the rest, and claim the title "best wrecker"

Those kinds of things don't require unnecessary changes to the program tho, set on car park, make a layout, turn reset on, have a blast.

This goes against realism and is turning more into a fantasy.

If this is okay to implement, then why can't scawen implement something I suggested ages ago.

Quote from edge3147 :

Scawen can you relook at the skidpad. most of the offroad areas that are dirt/grass are super hard to drive through (like glue) 40mph tops. is there anyway you can change the surface type to something a little more drivable (ie sand/grass consistency). As well as maybe making the areas around where i have circled farther from the track, solid and drivable as well.

Check the attached SS for the area in question
Attached Thumbnails

Implementing this sort of update would be just as beneficial as the floating objects.

It would bring life into the dead Rallycross side of LFS. I would for sure start a rallycross series if this were implemented.

Quote from Degats :

As Scawen said above, that shouldn't happen any more with the new patch.

you dont get my point. He stated about downloading all the skins at once AFTER you connect to the server, but him personally, will be lagging or his lag will effect the server (PING WISE!) no about joining / pitting etc .. :doh:

Quote from Scawen :

But I have a question. On testing that, I found something a bit strange. When an admin (or host) uses the /spec command to spectate another driver there is a sound effect but no message. I've checked and this is the same in 0.6B but I don't remember any complaints about that. It seems a bit spooky but I wondered if this is intentional, to allow for a customised message to appear. The sound effect is an "error sound" if a local car is force to spectate and a "notification sound" if a remote car is forced to spectate.

So I'm considering and asking if a message should be added when the /spec username command is used.

I've always wondered about that one.
It does make sense to not show a message if a player is /spec'd by an InSim program, because it's easy to automatically show a custom message.
However, if it's a manual /spec by an admin, it can be confusing as there can be no automatic message. It can also be tricky to keep track of it in replays, as InSim messages aren't recorded.
It's not a big deal, but slightly annoying sometimes.



While we're on the subject of autocross objects, it would be really useful to have a no entry sign (like the keep left/right ones). That'd make it a lot easier to navigate some of the more complicated autocross layouts, especially as chalk arrows can be hard to spot sometimes.

Quote from Degats :

While we're on the subject of autocross objects, it would be really useful to have a no entry sign (like the keep left/right ones). That'd make it a lot easier to navigate some of the more complicated autocross layouts, especially as chalk arrows can be hard to spot sometimes.

Turn around the pit speed sign and BAM, you have your no entry sign.

See attachment.

Quote from edge3147 :

Scawen can you relook at the skidpad. most of the offroad areas that are dirt/grass are super hard to drive through (like glue) 40mph tops. is there anyway you can change the surface type to something a little more drivable (ie sand/grass consistency). As well as maybe making the areas around where i have circled farther from the track, solid and drivable as well.
Check the attached SS for the area in question
Attached Thumbnails

Implementing this sort of update would be just as beneficial as the floating objects.

It would bring life into the dead Rallycross side of LFS. I would for sure start a rallycross series if this were implemented..

Bumping this to see what others think about this idea.

Quote from edge3147 :

Turn around the pit speed sign and BAM, you have your no entry sign.

See attachment.

In fairness, in the UK where Degats resides, that sign means that the national speed limit (60mph/70mph) applies. Very different from 'no entry', which is why he doesn't use it.

It's also used in international motorsport (including LFS) to mean "no limit"* on the exit of pitlanes.

I've also very rarely seen it used by anyone else - if there's an actual no-entry sign, more people might think to use it.

*Which was its original meaning in the UK, before the national speed limit was introduced.

All these layout editing suggestions are getting me excited! I think the concrete slabs would make an excellent addition to the ramp collection. I know some of the jumps I make in autocross are a pain to adjust because some of the slower cars cannot make it unless they get enough speed, I think having a 'bridge' made would solve that problem.

Scawen, if you added the ability to avoid the ground level check, that would make my year! I really think the layout editor is shaping up to be an awesome tool, and I'm really excited for the new patch!

Flame, I really like the idea of the on/off collision check. There have been so many times that I've been adding layout pieces (especially on offroad / hills) that I've been told it's too close. +1

Eclipsed, back in 2006 I suggested the same thing (albeit, those post years were badly formatted, *shutter*). It went over fairly well, and as long as there is some form of 'pitlane', I think it's a good suggestion. +1

Sinanju, while I do like your idea about two-piece barrier sizes, It's hard to decide one universal method for all layout pieces, but I think it would be better if there was 1 adjustable size instead. This applies for both red/white and Armco barriers. (even banners, if possible). There would be a slider that when slid back and forth, would lengthen or shorten barrier, Armco, and banners. As for kerbs, I think that's more of a future thing. If we want to implement more objects (sans Scawen's concrete slab) we'd have everybody bickering on what should and should not be added. I think optimization of the current objects (length, height) should be a higher priority.

edge3147, this particular patch is not about perfecting a racing simulator, it's about adding to an already great simulator with more user-suggested content. You're not forced to use it or go to a server that uses it. Just like racers aren't forced to go to a cruise server (they even have an option to hide that type of server). Some of this update is targeted to layout makers, if you're not interested in making a layout, it won't affect you. We are all waiting for S3, and as TVE said, it "keeps the waiting time less painful".

You wanted Scawen to look at the AU4 grass texture, let's talk about that for a second. If he started that project, he'd have to presumably re-code the non-tarmac for AU4. But why stop at AU4, what about all the other tracks that have uneven or 'fall-though' grass outside of the playing area. That's telling Scawen to do something that which maybe you and a few other people may use. The layout editor affects many more players and it's universal, meaning he only has to code it once, and it'll work for all tracks.

:twocents:

Scawen, a good year ago you mentioned that you could provide the official Autocross Objects dimensions. It's a futility but if it's an easy copy/paste having this information included in LYT.txt could be helpful for programmers.

Quote from imthebestracerthereis :

You wanted Scawen to look at the AU4 grass texture, *snip*

Yes, but LFS has had rallycross ever since I started playing it but it is VERY limited. This would allow for another type of racing to take place and bring more variety. I know it may be a little difficult, but as we have seen most things are quiet difficult when it comes to LFS because of how unique it is.

I feel others would support this if I was given a chance. Hoping Scawen can come and say what he thinks about it, it would add a whole new dimension of racing and layout making. Those areas would need to have layouts made for them for them to be successful and useful. Just something to consider.

Would it be a big inconvenience to get an Insim packet if a player gets stuck in "retired" mode? Maybe as IS_TINY.

Quote from chucknorris :

Would it be a big inconvenience to get an Insim packet if a player gets stuck in "retired" mode? Maybe as IS_TINY.

that whould be a good one

for now i measure the Z axes , and when its below -6 a -7 meters the insim sent the drive to spectatormode.

B12 is now available.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=81399

It has the things that I mentioned were done yesterday. Things came up today, so I wasn't able to do any new things.

I think I might have got a bit too excited about more things to add yesterday. I'm not sure if I'll be doing any of those before 0.6C. Maybe those improvements will just stay on my notes waiting for some time when there is more time. I do have to call a stop at some point so I can get back to some other things for the new physics and S3.

Anyway, try out the new instant join system and let me know how it goes!

Quote from Scawen :

Maybe those improvements will just stay on my notes waiting for some time when there is more time. I do have to call a stop at some point so I can get back on le new track.

Wise talking. Enough is enough

We need to get ready for the next year with LFS 0.6c

Quote from cargame.nl :

Wise talking. Enough is enough

If you think B12 is reliable, maybe you could move your S2 host over to B12 for a Sunday evening test?

I know it's a bit disruptive and may confuse some of your regulars but a Sunday evening test there is probably the best testing that will happen. I'm saying this because I would like to release 0.6C this week.

To the people who were talking about autocross updates... I'm sorry I was getting some of your hopes up on Friday. That is my mistake and sometimes it happens to us game developers, we get a bit excited and start talking too much. The problem is those "easy" things start look more complicated when you look in the code and you realise that what really is simple in principle, may take a couple of days because of the implementation. There's the physical function, the user interface, the multiplayer packets, the file saving and loading system and making sure that nothing causes a bug in something else. That's why I must call a stop at this point.

I've gone on much longer than planned with these B test patches, and I did say I had to be finished at the end of November. The only way to do that is to stop adding things, and just test properly and fix any remaining bugs.

Quote from Scawen :

To the people who were talking about autocross updates... I'm sorry I was getting some of your hopes up on Friday. That is my mistake and sometimes it happens to us game developers, we get a bit excited and start talking too much.

Don't worry about it, these netcode improvements are already a welcome update by themself. It's nice enough to have you interact with the community again. I reckon once the tyre physics are done with, it would be a better time to focus on ax/layout improvements.

Just my opinion.

Quote from Scawen :

If you think B12 is reliable, maybe you could move your S2 host over to B12 for a Sunday evening test?

I know it's a bit disruptive and may confuse some of your regulars but a Sunday evening test there is probably the best testing that will happen. I'm saying this because I would like to release 0.6C this week.

Yes, already was figuring out the right time to do it. I think I make the switch when F1 starts in less then three hours from now.

Historically there is a rise in demand before a F1 starts and a massive drop when F1 is being aired, to rise again after the finish of F1. I want to make use of these 3 hours to announce the switch, a lot of people still don't know of any test patch.

Quote :

To the people who were talking about autocross updates... I'm sorry I was getting some of your hopes up on Friday. That is my mistake and sometimes it happens to us game developers, we get a bit excited and start talking too much. The problem is those "easy" things start look more complicated when you look in the code and you realise that what really is simple in principle, may take a couple of days because of the implementation. There's the physical function, the user interface, the multiplayer packets, the file saving and loading system and making sure that nothing causes a bug in something else. That's why I must call a stop at this point.

In retrospect it did seem rather utopian to think that you would have been able to implement these new things on such short notice. I probably was a bit to euphoric in the heat of the moment. Your decision to call a stop is more than pertinent. What can be frustrating though is that fanboys (I'm a prime example ) can only speculate as to when or if these new things will be implemented. At some point it seemed like an opportunity to add these new things to make 0.6C even more appealing. I can only hope that you will find some time to implement these new features in the future (while reminding myself that you only have 1 brain & 10 fingers).

It's okay that you are stopping, means we can get back to the bigger things

Thank you for the explenation, and I'll of course understand that. But I do hope those ideas
Will stay on the planning paper and that we might see that in a future patch :-) Also, if you doing an autocross patch, please take it up to consideration if you and Eric could make us a bigger autocross area to play with. Nothing special, just rezise what we already got hehe!

Quote from edge3147 :

All this talk about objects is nice and all, but how is this going to make LFS a realistic racing simulator?

"pitch and yaw of ramps" Sounds like you want to play a game like 1nsane or some other 4x4 game.

"Floating platforms!" Doesn't happen in real life, so why should it happen in LFS?


This is just cute, I thought this was a racing simulator, not NFS.

Must say something about this:

Because LFS isn't real life! Are you trying to make same as I thought to do? Trying to copy your real life soul to LFS? Pathetic.


I say, when virtual racing, it should always have more possibilities than real life. For example, if you try to make everything realistical, then tell me how in real life you can have a restart in a race in THREE FREAKING SECONDS?

How about shift s and shift p teleport things? oh when you exit from the server does it mean you died? then you will be back alive then when coming to server. If you race in another server does it mean in real life you live another dimension? Your S2-account got stolen? What this means IRL? You got your life stolen? GF/Wife/BF/Any got away from you?

Got it?



Im sorry to be this harsh, DO NOT take it personally, I just wanted to show what I mean...

When you die IRL, Shift R would not help, unless it is binded to somewhat organism system, which brings new life mixtures in your body and soul and so on... otherwise it does not matter if cars would drive in the freaking Jupiter planet, would be cool though...