the real sad part is: basicly it is all there (or was at some point), but now the devs just fail to get it together. we all know that there is a fully developed and working new track (rockingham) and there are at least two cars that are also working (sort of...) in the vws and the lx8. and there is that "industrial area" in south city where only some components are missing to to open up that fences and add at least four new layouts to that track. (remember the last track update to sc? just the opening of that schikane route gave us new opportunities and layouts and that "industrial area is even bigger...)
there are people who already drove the vws and it was even good enough then to base a competition on that modell where you could win an actual real vw scirocco!

so why the devs could not release those three things (or at least one of them) is beyond everything i can understand - everybody, even the devs must notice the state of the community and the hunger for content.
i accept that scavier are aiming high to get everything perfect before release, but at some time you have to make a compromise, even it is just for a period of time.
what will it hurt if those track and the cars are released as "beta interims versions" just to make the community happy again and shorten the wait for the "big" updates.

sure there will be some people complaining when the cars behaviour changes on the new physics, but this will immanently happen to all cars in lfs anyways. but i think it will cure so much frustration and will be a great sign from the devs that they acknowledge the feelings of the community that stands to them and still patiently waits for good news.

as long as the community can fight like we do there is still some passion left for this game. when the people really start to give a shit - this is where the devs have to be careful, because getting a frustrated customer back is one of the hardest things in sales.

in the past we did everything we possibly could: we begged, we prayed, we cursed, we did petitions, we did "longest waiting for a patch treads", we threatened to leave, we offer all kinds of help, but to no avail...
...maybe scavier have the "genius illness" which makes them good at their particular special intrests, but makes them fail in some other areas like community relations.

why is it so hard for scavier to once again do the kind of community relations like in the past? no one will bite you if you just try! but if nothing happens the situation is just getting worse and worse and it will be even harder then to fix this mess.

if the devs have any rough estimate when "real new content" will be ready for release, then please fill the gap until then with releasing the already finished content to make the community happy. people said more often than not that money is not the real problem, many of us will be happy to buy another licence stage. just release something as s3 and then continue to develop content and wheather day/night and so on in s4, s5, s6.
no one forces you to stick to your original plans that s3 should be the final stage, when there is so much missing from the original concept to simulate all motor racing classes and terrains.

can we as the community manage to create one real big tread that is just positive? no arguing, no bitching, no fighting... just pure love and support for the devs great overall concept and realisation of lfs as it is today, celebrating our journey over more than a decade of sim racing and push the egos and hearts of all of the scavier empire to new hights to motivate them to make the right moves and decisions!!!

to make the best racing simulator in the world you have to make it!
you know? to finish first you have to finish first...

go, go, go SCAVIER!!! :clapclap:

peace, mo

The LX8 was never supposed to be released content. I don't know why people keep talking about it, especially because LX6 racing is so rare (and always was except for a few niche leagues).

we keep talking about the lx8, because we are desperate somehow i think and would be glad to play a bit with this "absurd" car.
maybe it has way to much power to weight, but this can also be fun...

maybe not in circuit racing, but in other areas of motorsports like drifting or just for pure fun?

like sometime ago when we were waiting for something, we played with the old s1 for a few days and scavier even gave us a new exe wich could find the new master server again. there we raced just for fun in an old version!
or victors challenges in the parking area...
so not only new content is what drives the community - it is just the wish for something different for a while to have some fun and different kicks.

not every addition to lfs has to be for closed circuit racing only.

lfs provides the most convincing force feedback and realism feeling of all sims out there and so it is only natural that many of the players will use it for a variety of purposes.

some people do not race, but play all by themself only for the fun of car control on all possible pieces of track they can set a virtual wheel on.

lfs was, and is promotet and labeled "online racing simulator" and so racing will remain a big part of it. however scavier once had the vision to create a racing simulator for many, if not all racing classes out there in the world.
the world is changing and so we have the opportunity to motivate scavier to hold on to their greater vision and use lfs as the core of a modular virtual racing or motorsport world.

in a few years from now computer and internet power will allow translation of open access world map material into realtime racetrack creation. so it will be possible to drive on any place in the world instantly, because the sim engine will use public data from the internet to convincinly enough render any street on the fly.
you know? lfs-world ?

peace, mo

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Problem is, if Scawen gives any kind of time estimation, everyone jumps on it like a slut on a dick....

Problem is the fanboys mouths are already occupying that space. Only way to get them off for a few short seconds is to dare question the state of the game and it's community.

It's really is the kind of complacency and ignorance that has contributed to the decline in interest in this game. As soon as anyone dares ask or questions progress... They're immediately set upon.... Attacked for being a demo'er or not playing enough or every combo...

The forum was once the heart and soul of the community. IMO it now serves many as a reminder to forget LFS.... "Nothing to see... Move along people."

Quote from edge3147 :

The fact that they continue to withhold new content over some concern regarding physics is just stupid.

When pressed a couple of years+ back, Scavier said it was up to Eric to release content. Given how long it has been since anything of substance has materialized, one has to seriously consider if he is still involved / active.

Half year ago he made two new tracks for Scawen which Scawen enjoyed driving. So he is active, privately, it seems.

The summary is; there is something going on but also nothing. And that feeling of nothing going on is getting stronger and stronger especially when you see con colleagues releasing patches and updates every two weeks like LFS development was doing back in the days.

And that, will not come back. Because of that it's better to give up serious attention to project LFS and only hang around for nostalgic reasons.

It's also a completely different comparison. Speaking from experience, it's a lot easier to make leaps of progress on a new project than a mature project because the jumps seem larger in relative terms (plus, less code is easier code).

Scawen does still get into kicks where he releases several patches in a short period of time. Just because it isn't stuff that pertains to you, doesn't mean that progress doesn't get made.

As for Eric, he's always seemed to be shy. I don't think made many posts back in RSC, and has only made 1 (public) post here to basically clear the air (partially) because there was a group that were obsessed at how enigmatic Eric is.

He's made a dozen or so posts (circa '10), but he deleted them. They weren't flattering and probably not really representative of him as a person, as is the case with anyone, when their buttons are pushed.

If he is active (in some form) then it's really disappointing he has chosen to withhold content. It really seems counter productive to let the game wither on the vine for 6+ years. In many ways it under mines Scavier's efforts.

Quote from Macfox :

He's made a dozen or so posts (circa '10), but he deleted them. They weren't flattering and probably not really representative of him as a person, as is the case with anyone, when their buttons are pushed.

If he is active (in some form) then it's really disappointing he has chosen to withhold content. It really seems counter productive to let the game wither on the vine for 6+ years. In many ways it under mines Scavier's efforts.

Well, most of his posts I'd reckon are in private forums that we can't see. I think there's only 1 post that's actually public.

Wow. This crap still going on.
2020 sounds like good year to publish new physics to 20 years outdated game.
Good going LFS team

Keep up the paste.

Quote from Jazzka :

Wow. This crap still going on.
2020 sounds like good year to publish new physics to 20 years outdated game.
Good going LFS team

Keep up the paste.

Thank you for your extremely constructive and helpful addition to this thread.

It's like the Mona Lisa in post form.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Scawen does still get into kicks where he releases several patches in a short period of time.

1 update a year, check the LFS frontpage. 1 update a year doesn't get the buzz moving.

It's over, only some fanboys here keep the spirit high but if you have a little real life experience you can draw conclusions that; family, kids, age and different hobby's equals end of story. The same dedication/focus cannot be reached. Especially which such an extremely small team.

Quote from cargame.nl :

1 update a year, check the LFS frontpage. 1 update a year doesn't get the buzz moving.

It's over, only some fanboys here keep the spirit high but if you have a little real life experience you can draw conclusions that; family, kids, age and different hobby's equals end of story. The same dedication/focus cannot be reached. Especially which such an extremely small team.

Bingo. Welcome to LFS, professional cruise simulator.

Quote from Macfox :

Problem is the fanboys mouths are

No, the problem is bullshit, regardless whether its fanboys or whatever other "clique" that holds majority share of it. Any bullshit like the type you tried to defend is nothing but a waste of webpage space and readers' time. Because it's untrue and poisonous to what's good about LFS, even as far removed from a game as its forum might be.

Yes it makes less sense in my not-humble opinion to not do a sort of data-lock on current unreleased content and finish + release that, and then go back to working/R&D-ing physics, than it does to insist on constipation (pardon my French Scawen). I mean, what's the worry - that LFS players will not appreciate it? That the next update will suffer too much from having so much content subtracted? IMNHO: too bad, that's just another broken egg from chasing satisfactory physics omelet. But that's just, like.. my opinion, man.

What makes the least sense for sure though, is telling Scavier how to do their job - to pretend to know better than them "what is LFS". If you know better, you'd make a better LFS... as the saying goes. But you don't.

And you might go play something else. But other than petty spitefulness, you gain nothing from not trying LFS again whenever the physics obstacles are overcome and/or updates are released. LFS and other labors of love, ridiculously earnest as it might sound, are works of art. And works of art aren't about being the most popular or downloaded works, they're about being done right.

Quote from Breizh :

And you might go play something else. But other than petty spitefulness, you gain nothing from not trying LFS again whenever the physics obstacles are overcome and/or updates are released. LFS and other labors of love, ridiculously earnest as it might sound, are works of art. And works of art aren't about being the most popular or downloaded works, they're about being done right.

Only frustration in realizing that for Scawen the S2 license fees were enough to sustain comfortable family life. They wanted to get out of the corporate working life and do things in their own pace.

We don't know the details, but for me at least it seems that LFS has been on a backburner for a long long time now. IF you had been working for the last five years on physics and you get stumped on something hard to figure out, you could have improved the sim in other ways in the meantime.

Oculus Rift support is just a contingency plan to keep LFS 'current'. And see how fast that support was implemented... the tyre model can't be the only thing LFS could benefit from.

I do appreciate LFS for what it was and still is, just a huge potential lost since Scawen prefers relaxed 'hippie' living style and doesn't give a rats ass if WE would like to see the sim improved or not. Keeping the community happy is not a priority. Scawen working for a regular 'nine to five' pace is not a priority or even desired. Only now when the license purchases are dwindling down (as the community does not promote the sim from mouth to mouth anymore) he feels it's time to start working on improvements.

..just leave LFS as it is..If you still want to play it, then PLAY! If not, do not bother about the lack of progress in the past 5 years. The only individual at this point who's able to make a difference is Scawen...we currently can't do a single thing about it.

Quote from MousemanLV :

..just leave LFS as it is..If you still want to play it, then PLAY! If not, do not bother about the lack of progress in the past 5 years. The only individual at this point who's able to make a difference is Scawen...we currently can't do a single thing about it.

There actually is something we could do about it.

We are the ones keeping LFS alive, without the community provided servers and community provided improvements (skins, events, layouts, textures, insim apps) LFS would have nothing to stand on and would be seen the way most of us see it, dead.

There is always something that can be done when it is consumer driven.

Quote from Macfox :

It's all about compromises at the moment. Empty servers and stale content isn't my cup of tea.

by that reckoning, fans should stop going to Talladega real soon, because that's a stale track.

a few days ago i showed the racing cockpit i built to some friends who were over at my house. neither of them had ever heard of LFS. basically they were stunned by their experience and were very surprised to hear the software only cost $50 and was several years old. they spent hours on the sim and had to tear themselves away when it got late.

basically, the average north american knows nothing of LFS and when introduced to it can find no flaw in the handling or physics. it's as real as it gets.

one friend mentioned the latest forza has a feature where you can rewind time if you screw something up, so you can redo the last few seconds of your driving to get it right. he thought that was pretty sad.

i pointed out that LFS wasn't very popular in north america because the average american just wants to win. they get online in LFS and lose repeatedly to faster europeans, then quit the game and go play gran turismo.

any new releases by scavier aren't going to change this. basically LFS will never be massively popular in the united states unless the US culture changes to one of modesty and honest hard work. there may be business models that will lead to success.

iRacing seems to have done something by becoming a status symbol and by encouraging slow driving. where else can you stay under the limit and win a race? people buy in to iracing because their laptime is within 0.1s of their idol's time on the oval (no limit problem there :P) hell even i can get with a few 0.1% of the wr time on ky1...

That's a mighty wide brush you're painting with there. :duck:

Racing and a love of driving just isn't as big here in the US. I've spent a couple years in various parts of Europe, and the percentage of people that are racing fans or liked to drive fast seemed a lot higher than it is back home.

I haven't met anybody in the US that's heard of LFS, rFactor, iRacing, Assetto Corsa, or any of them. Mention Forza or Gran Turismo and even the people that don't care about cars in the slightest know it. Advertising?

Quote from CarlLefrancois :

a few days ago i showed the racing cockpit i built to some friends who were over at my house. neither of them had ever heard of LFS. basically they were stunned by their experience and were very surprised to hear the software only cost $50 and was several years old. they spent hours on the sim and had to tear themselves away when it got late.

basically, the average north american knows nothing of LFS and when introduced to it can find no flaw in the handling or physics. it's as real as it gets.

one friend mentioned the latest forza has a feature where you can rewind time if you screw something up, so you can redo the last few seconds of your driving to get it right. he thought that was pretty sad.

i pointed out that LFS wasn't very popular in north america because the average american just wants to win. they get online in LFS and lose repeatedly to faster europeans, then quit the game and go play gran turismo.

any new releases by scavier aren't going to change this. basically LFS will never be massively popular in the united states unless the US culture changes to one of modesty and honest hard work. there may be business models that will lead to success.

iRacing seems to have done something by becoming a status symbol and by encouraging slow driving. where else can you stay under the limit and win a race? people buy in to iracing because their laptime is within 0.1s of their idol's time on the oval (no limit problem there :P) hell even i can get with a few 0.1% of the wr time on ky1...

This is just a fantasy inside your head. The reason LFS isn't even remotely popular in the US is because of lack of advertising in the US. I am almost certain that is LFS went to Steam, it's popularity and use would rise significantly, but keeping that momentum alive would be up to the devs.

Assetto Corsa being on Steam didn't really seem to attract new North American drivers, other than the already known names from the "less popular" racing simulators. It's something more complex than that, as you can see iRacing is pretty popular, even the Road Racing part, in the US. It's not even that advertised mainstreamly. I don't get it.

Quote from Kristi :

Assetto Corsa being on Steam didn't really seem to attract new North American drivers, other than the already known names from the "less popular" racing simulators. It's something more complex than that, as you can see iRacing is pretty popular, even the Road Racing part, in the US. It's not even that advertised mainstreamly. I don't get it.

I think it's a combination of advertising, not being on a console (America loves Consoles (see Gran Turismo and Forza)), lack of shiny super ultra detailed graphics (America loves fancy things) and speed of development. There are probably a few other factors, but this would give a good idea what most American gamers I have played with look for in games.

Quote from edge3147 :

I think it's a combination of advertising, not being on a console (America loves Consoles (see Gran Turismo and Forza)), lack of shiny super ultra detailed graphics (America loves fancy things) and speed of development. There are probably a few other factors, but this would give a good idea what most American gamers I have played with look for in games.

I think once AC has more mainstream cars, it'll increase in popularity. The Ferrari's and exotic cars are nice, but can't underestimate the American love for Corvettes.

I have to say it's a bit odd the way LFS is developed. I know the devs are very protective of their right to release what they want when they want, but commercially it doesn't look like a very good way to work.

On the one hand they've created a lot of anticipation for their next release, and typically that feeling seems to reach a peak beyond which no product can live up to the expectation of its consumers. Also it's clear that many of the long-term vocal supporters of the product have become frustrated and equally-vocally critical of the development process in recent years.

I agree with the statement that the devs don't owe anybody anything, and again I agree that LFS has always been a great platform and I spent many happy years being beaten in races by many of you, but I do think the lack of any recognisable release schedule has harmed it.

Having been working in software development for the last 15 years or so, I know that you can never stand still - or be perceived to be standing still. It's what kills a lot of great products.