Quote from DANIEL-CRO :

Local newspaper published they are coming to Croatia. Can't wait to hear racist jokes about us.

dafaq

Dat tolerance.

Quote from pipa :

I didn't say that it wasn't offensive, i only said it wasn't racist wether it is offensive or not wasn't part of my argument.

I believe it was racist though. Would you agree that insulting one racial group (using a racist insult) is racism? That insulting two racial groups (using racist insults) is racism? If you would agree with it when insulting one and two groups, by what special transitive power does it stop being racism as long as you insult all racial groups (using racial insults)? I've heard the argument of "<x> hates everyone equally" as a defence against claims of racism so many times and I simply can't understand it.

Quote from pipa :

The western society we live in values "free speech" very greatly and rightfully so. But that doesn't mean that people will use this for good and a lot of times they might say things that offend or disgust you.
However "free speech" is much more important than people that are offended, they have every right to be offended but you won't silence those offensive remarks (in a public place).
Only exception would be direct insults towards people(german law).

Top Gear is a free-to-air programme (essentially, I don't want to get bogged down in UK TV licensing) that airs before the watershed. UK broadcast TV has never been (and almost certainly will never be) a venue where pure/true free speech is possible. There are fairly strict and detailed guidelines for what is and isn't acceptable on UK broadcast TV and other mediums (such as broadcast radio and paid subscription/PIN access TV). Would you agree with me that free-to-air TV and radio should have restrictions on content, especially before the watershed?

As I mentioned in this post, my problem with the term "slope" was that it was being used as a racial insult, not that it was simply offensive. If there's a studio interview where a person says that, for example, the Dacia Sandero is the best car in the world and Clarkson calls them an idiot I don't have a problem with that. The word "idiot" is mildly offensive, but it would be clearly understood that it was for comic effect and it isn't directed at a specific group of people (based on race, sex, etc). See the start of this post for essentially an example of this distinction.

Quote from pipa :

You may remember this sentence:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ~Voltaire

You may not believe me, but I do strongly believe in freedom of speech/expression. However, I think there should be sensible limits (as there are in all developed countries, as far as I'm aware). For instance, if you want to run a private comedy show which has an entrance fee and isn't being broadcast free-to-air then I believe you should be able to say pretty much whatever you like (including racist, sexist etc terms). That's why when I've mentioned comics who did this sort of thing (such as Roy Chubby Brown and Bernard Manning) I haven't said that I think they should be banned or arrested. I believe people should be free to do that sort of material but not on free-to-air public broadcast television (when it's against the broadcast regulations). That's the important thing. For instance (sorry, Godwin), I wouldn't be allowed to appear on German public television in a mock Nazi uniform with the Horst-Wessel-Song as background music and say that I thought Hitler was on to something and that he was a great guy who never really did anything bad. That's the sort of censorship that makes sense when you're on free-to-air public broadcast TV.

By the way, I'm obviously not comparing the use of the term "slope" with the above.

Quote from amp88 :

and I simply can't understand it.

Lemme quote the definition of racism from wikipedia

"Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities"

If you treat every ethnic group with similar hate or in this case do similar jokes, then you are by definition not racist.
Nothing really difficult to understand as it would seem.

Quote from amp88 :

I wouldn't be allowed to appear on German public television in a mock Nazi uniform with the Horst-Wessel-Song as background music and say that I thought Hitler was on to something and that he was a great guy who never really did anything bad. That's the sort of censorship that makes sense when you're on free-to-air public broadcast TV.

Thats because it is against the law to do so due to our history and even despite that there have been serveral programmes or shows that made fun of that bit of german history.

The only thing i would agree is that you have every right to protest against having a certain show or person on the TV, however silencing what a person is going to say is unquestionably wrong.
Censoring is evil by default and will never do society any good.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

All this time, I thought racists were people who raced cars.
How incorrect I was.

Racers is the word you want.

Quote from amp88 :

If you say "black c*nt" you're obviously using the word "black" as part of the insult, surely? If the person you're referring to had just said "c*nt" that would still have been offensive, but it wouldn't have been racist. Similarly, if Atkinson had just said "lazy" rather than "lazy n*gger" that wouldn't have been racist (unless, as with Top Gear's Mexican remarks, the word "lazy" was being used in conjunction with the idea of a specific group of people (Mexicans or black people, for example)). Yes, I saw that people defended Atkinson in that case, but his remarks were still racist to me and to the people he worked for at the time, hence his dismissal(s).

If someone is looking to offend someone then they will choose the words.....if the words can be more personal then they will cause greater offense...so...two black guys can not opt for the colour offense...a white guy and a black guy have options based on colour.
Regarding Atkinson....without any doubt it is not a popular word for a white person to use...

Quote from amp88 :

Clearly it's a parody of Bernard Manning, yes. I find it the character funny because it's effectively the antithesis of Manning and proves you can be funny without being needlessly offensive (I wish Top Gear would try and learn that). If your point is that Manning is OK because his routines resulted in Righton then I disagree. I'd rather live in a world with neither Manning (or people whose comedy is like his) nor Righton than one with both.

...but the point is that some people find BM funny..others do not...if you have a world without BM (seriously, BM is not to my taste at all, but for the point I am trying to make...) where would we be?

When I was around 10 years old my father owned a newsagents and I used to spend most of Saturday in the shop. Every Saturday morning two old women (those are observational remarks) would enter the shop and struggle to reach Mayfair/Razzle/etc. from the top shelf and then bring it to the counter and complain about how the magazine is degrading to women....no doubt they have the right to have their own view and be free to air that view...in the same way that the guy who has the reserved copy of Mayfair/Razzle.

Quote from amp88 :

I don't think Top Gear should make jokes about any groups based on race, physical/mental disability, sex, age, nationality etc. That is absolutely not the same as saying "don't make fun of Germans, but you can make fun of the French, people in wheelchairs and Asian women". I also fail to understand where the idea of "if you make fun of everyone you're not being offensive" comes from. By definition, if you make fun of everyone you're being offensive to everyone. If I gathered one person of each race/nationality/sex etc in a room and insulted each of them in turn would that not be offensive?

My instant thought was of the Fawlty Towers episode where Basil is not allowed to mention the war...is that still allowed to be funny?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I don't even know any racist Croatian jokes.

What is this!

They sure do

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I don't even know any racist Croatian jokes.

What is this!

That's because they have nothing to make jokes about.

Quote from Anthoop :

My instant thought was of the Fawlty Towers episode where Basil is not allowed to mention the war...is that still allowed to be funny?

NO !

What ever you do, don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, I think I got away with it alright.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Let's try again, if your offended then DON'T WATCH. this is called personal choice. If you have the right to choose, then it's comedy.

If it's in your face, with no choice on your part, then it's racism/sexism/speciesism

Quote from pipa :

Lemme quote the definition of racism from wikipedia

"Racism is actions, practices or beliefs, or social or political systems that consider different races to be ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities"

If you treat every ethnic group with similar hate or in this case do similar jokes, then you are by definition not racist.
Nothing really difficult to understand as it would seem.

I'm going to ignore this part of your reply, since I think we're just at a point where we're essentially repeating ourselves and not making any impact.

Quote from pipa :

Thats because it is against the law to do so due to our history and even despite that there have been serveral programmes or shows that made fun of that bit of german history.

Yes, I specifically chose that example as it could be considered a repressive piece of censorship for a developed country.

Quote from pipa :

The only thing i would agree is that you have every right to protest against having a certain show or person on the TV, however silencing what a person is going to say is unquestionably wrong.
Censoring is evil by default and will never do society any good.

Here's where things have come to an abrupt stop. That you consider all censorship "evil by default" means there's simply an irreconcilable gulf between our positions. Does your position mean that you simply don't draw a line between the kind of censorship which would stop a TV presenter on a public free-to-air programme being broadcast at 5pm from using words like "n*gger", "c*nt" etc and the kind which would prohibit that same presenter from saying anything negative about the political leaders of the country? Or does it mean that you do believe there's a difference between them but you still consider them both "evil"? I'm honestly struggling to understand your position.

welp, they started again

Lets lock another thread because of this bullshit.

Ah god damnit it all whent shit :/

Quote from The Very End :

Ah god damnit it all whent shit :/

I blame the Russians.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I blame the Russians.

It was obviously Russia's fault

Got to be them troublemakers in Ukraine!

Quote from Mustangman759 :

It was obviously Russia's fault

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe

Quote from amp88 :

I'm honestly struggling to understand your position

Well i am not the kind that uses interpretive dance to get his point across, so maybe you need a different partner for your conversation.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe

Are we supposed to take you seriously right now?

Quote from Mustangman759 :

Are we supposed to take you seriously right now?

Good job Matt. You managed an entire post without any grammatical errors.

You get a gold star!

I'd rather have a cookie.

Quote from Mustangman759 :

I'd rather have a cookie.

Typical American. Would rather have food.

And the plot thickens ....... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new ... p-Gear-Burma-special.html

Haha wow, some people really are idiots.

Welcome to the the World of sue! Sue everything and everyone, sue them, SUE THEM GOD DAMNIT!

Lets sue her for being a ****.