I'm just glad to see more development made on LFS in any fashion, even if I disagree with the potential success of certain targeted features.

http://www.twitch.tv/tijfg_zz/
onboard stream for next 80-90min or so from the Fernbay 8h
idk if it works, only tested for few seconds

Leaked photos of Vive DK2/CV1:



HTC apparently is planning to have their own store with some nazi DRM, which is weird - I thought that Valve will handle games distribution via Steam VR:
http://i.imgur.com/tuTthBf.png

To sign up for DK2 you have to agree to "deploy your application to HTC's store first at debut:
https://i.imgur.com/7YUJiVY.png


Updated website where you can sing up for DK2 and download "DRM SDK v0.8.0.0":
http://www.htcvive.com/

"Vive DRM User Policy: 1. Users must be signed in with their HTC Account in order to download any content (free or paid)."

This isn't looking good.

not sure why you call it nazi DRM, Steam is known for widespread stealing because it hasn't any checks.

Quote from cargame.nl :

not sure why you call it nazi DRM, Steam is known for widespread stealing because it hasn't any checks.

If you are required to be online to play offline games you bought, there is something wrong, buy maybe its just my point of view.

DRM is pointless, every game is getting cracked within hours/days anyway, so what's the point. It just pain in the ass for those who actually bought the game - you have to login or put the CD/DVD in to play.

Provide me with a cracked Iracing version please (just for educational purposes). The world is online nowadays. except North Korea and some other individuals with similar mindset. CD/DVD, really? Does it still exist? I don't think they are going to do it like that.

While I will agree that online DRM done "right" is impossible to crack, it's annoyance anyway. Also once the company ceases, the game will be no longer playable, as major parts of it gameplay will be suddenly missing (otherwise it would be easy to crack, if they were client side).

I also have quite strong noDRM policy when I buy games for myself, with only couple of exceptions (LFS being one, because I like Scawen's work so much, and also in case of some catastrophe, LFS can be cracked "easily", as the client side is fully functional, only locked).

Anyway, this is in ridiculous contrast to openVR lib. If it will stay like this, it's no big deal for things like LFS, it will be just locked out from DK2, but once the CV1 will arrive at the market, anybody can buy it, use openvr lib to extend his SW, and release elsewhere (than viveport shop).

Interesting, I wonder how this will pan out... I'm out of course.

Quote from Amynue :

If you are required to be online to play offline games you bought, there is something wrong, buy maybe its just my point of view.

DRM is pointless, every game is getting cracked within hours/days anyway, so what's the point. It just pain in the ass for those who actually bought the game - you have to login or put the CD/DVD in to play.

You're not required to stay online with Steam. You need to be online to DL the game. After that, you can put Steam in offline mode and never connect again (until you choose to update or DL another game). Steam is essentially "perfect" DRM in that you never notice it.

It also functions as an excellent games library. I couldn't imagine having CDs for the 400 games I own on Steam. Or having a separate username/password combo to DL the game from each publisher (especially if that publisher went out of business). The fact that I can, with 1 username and password combo, DL and play the vast majority of games I've purchased in the last 11 years, is a huge huge positive to Steam as a platform and a marketplace.

If you also do more research, the "Vive DRM" is similar to Steam DRM, as it appears HTC is positioning themselves to create a VR Marketplace, not unlike what IIRC Samsung has done with the Galaxy Gear. It's not mandatory, nor does it supplant/replace any other DRM system.

I think it'll fail and it's a bad idea, but it's not this "VIVE IS LOCKED DOWN" like you're attempting to frame it as.

Stop spreading fake information because you have a vendetta.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Provide me with a cracked Iracing version please (just for educational purposes). The world is online nowadays. except North Korea and some other individuals with similar mindset. CD/DVD, really? Does it still exist? I don't think they are going to do it like that.

I was speaking of singleplayer games, since this is what most of VR games so far are.
Online games that require you to be connected to the game server can obviously do succesfull DRM, just like LFS or iRacing, but there is no problem with that since you have to be logged in anyway to play online.

Yes the world is online, but not at all times and not everywhere.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Stop spreading fake information because you have a vendetta.

I'm sorry for spreading fake information taken directly from Vive website and SDK.

And stop acting like I'm a Oculus fanboy. I created this thread. I've suggested to Scawen to sign up for the Vive Devkit. I never said that Vive will be bad or Rift will be better.

You on the other hand are acting like a some extreme Vive fanboy - saying things like "Oculus is dead", "Oculus are liars", "Vive is vastly superior".

Stop trashing my thread with your delusions.

.....so which one is best?

If it's not that simple, which one has the better software implementation, lowest latency, most accurate head tracking, best prediction. And which has the best hardware, refresh rate, resolution, field of view etc.


I don't care about politics or who makes them. I just want to pick one up as a surprise for my dad next year.

He loves the DK2, but wishes it had more clarity.

Also, I can't zoom out of the forum enough to be able to fit in horizontally without it snapping back. Is there a mobile layout that I can get to?

Quote from cargame.nl :

Provide me with a cracked Iracing version please (just for educational purposes). The world is online nowadays. except North Korea and some other individuals with similar mindset. CD/DVD, really? Does it still exist? I don't think they are going to do it like that.

there is a cracked version of I-racing which has been around for years but obviously you cant race online against others and it must build a local server (on your machine)

[ EDIT by Scawen - removed text here - too much information ]

merry Christmas/happy holidays

Quote from EeekiE :

.....so which one is best?

If it's not that simple, which one has the better software implementation, lowest latency, most accurate head tracking, best prediction. And which has the best hardware, refresh rate, resolution, field of view etc.


I don't care about politics or who makes them. I just want to pick one up as a surprise for my dad next year.

It's impossible to tell at this time. We don't know anything about Vive CV1 yet. HTC claims that those 7000 units that they will be shipping to developers as DK2 were supposted to be CV1, but they decided to delay the release until April because of a "Very big technological breakthrough" which will be unveiled at CES 2016 (Jan 6-9). Preorders for the Rift are "comming soon after new year", presumably also at CES 2016.

So yeah, it's too early to tell and too early to choose one, since we still can't preorder neither of the two. Wait for CES.

Some articles showing off the DK2 aka Vive Pre:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/htc-vive-pre-first-look,30894.html
http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/5/10714522/htc-valve-vive-pre-v2-development-kit-ces-2016
http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-pre-hands-on/

So the "Very big technological breakthrough" they were trying to justify the last-minute-delay-announcement with is nowhere to be seen but there is alot of improvements over the DK1.

Noisy basestations problem seems to be fixed, Scawen

They are starting to ship DK2:
http://steamcommunity.com/games/250820/announcements/detail/666899628994620161
Did you get any email Scawen?

Thanks, yes I did get an email this morning!

Vive will be available for 799$ http://uploadvr.com/htc-vive-is-799/

More infos to follow at 17 GMT.

Yep, it's official:
http://blog.htcvive.com/2016/02/unveiling-the-vive-consumer-edition-and-pre-order-information/

Preorders "for a limited time" will be bundled with Job Simulator and Fantactic Contraption.

As I've expected CV1 is basicaly a Vive Pre/DK2 with some minor changes. At CES 2016 they were saying that CV1 will have integrated headphones, better straps and whatnot... can't see that.

Vive Pre reveal video 12.01.2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlD3H1xSakw

CV1 reveal video 21.02.2016:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mxDQycSyDg

Copy-paste with some extra bit in the middle showing the eye-relief adjustment.

Well the price I think is quite reasonable... $200 more than the Rift but you get the motion controlers and 2 basestations vs one camera and Xbox one gamepad. If Oculus Touch will cost around $200 then the pricing for the headset + motion controlers will be nearly the same for Rift and Vive.

I wonder what will be the price for Europe... it's confirmed to be more.
There will be more news from MWC 2016 which starts tommorrow.

Pre-orders start on February 29th at 10am Eastern (7am PST / 12 Noon GMT)

Launch countries:
http://i.imgur.com/aARSpDg.jpg

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks, yes I did get an email this morning!

So please, Scawen let us know how is the Vive Pre once it arrives, since it's basicaly the same as CV1.

Also - do you have any plans for the passthrough camera? In the article I've posted earlier, if you watch the video and go to 11:25, the guy from HTC says that you could possible project a steering wheel in the lower part of your peripheral vision. So basicaly you could play LFS and see your actual steering wheel inside the game through the camera. Even if this would be possibly I don't think it would be easy to implement and wouldn't work very well... but worth looking into, I guess.

Thanks for the info.

The Pre arrived this weekend. I should be able to have a look early this week. First I have to release a test patch with a couple of updates, either Monday or Tuesday afternoon.

The camera sounds interesting. I'll be pleased if it can allow the user to see the keyboard because it's so hard to type when online in LFS with a headset on.

I am not sure why it has inbuilt phone functionality. As someone who is not addicted to or interested in telephones, I am a bit shocked to think that someone can't take the headset off if they want to interact with their phone. I guess it's like the people who crash their car because answering their phone is more important than staying alive!

..

Quote from Scawen :

The Pre arrived this weekend. I should be able to have a look early this week. First I have to release a test patch with a couple of updates, either Monday or Tuesday afternoon.

Happy to hear that, thanks.

Quote from Scawen :

I am not sure why it has inbuilt phone functionality.

Smartphones are what HTC is mostly known for so probably it didn't cost them much extra to implement that, but it does seem quite pointless and adds unnecesary weight and bulk to a headset which is already quite overweight compared to the Rift.

I was wondering... does Eric have any VR headset? Now that you have the Pre, DK1 is of no use to you, so maybe you could give it to Eric so he can step into the world he modeled You could go even further and implement VR into the editor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio - Unreal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzjxRi5J4XI - Unity

EDIT:
Not sure if that website is to be trusted but it claims that the Vive will cost £689 in the UK (€882).
http://mashable.com/2016/02/21/htc-vive-price-release-date/#U4gpl5Fluuqc

Not sure about the compatibility thing - do they mean the headset can be plugged into a phone, or the headset has a phone in it? Interesting possibilities either way...

Quote from Amynue :

I was wondering... does Eric have any VR headset? Now that you have the Pre, DK1 is of no use to you, so maybe you could give it to Eric so he can step into the world he modeled You could go even further and implement VR into the editor

Yes, Eric has a DK2 and that has influenced the development of Westhill and Rockingham. He often checks his work out in VR because it's such a good view on things. There is extra incentive to include more 3D geometry in models and so on.

Quote from Shirtkicker :

Not sure about the compatibility thing - do they mean the headset can be plugged into a phone, or the headset has a phone in it? Interesting possibilities either way...

Maybe it's a program that pops up in 3D space and you can control your phone in there, like looking at the actual phone screen, or perhaps just a set of menus accessing various features. So you can be in VR but you don't have to leave behind the comfort and security of your beloved phone in the real world, and you don't have to miss a single facebook post about a cup of coffee one of your friends bought or any inane tweet by a spamming celebrity.

Oh gods... I just had visions of noobs on phones in T1 and it was like:

Seems accurate, I'm just hoping to see the same car destruction in LFS

Quote from Scawen :

... you don't have to miss [...] any inane tweet by a spamming celebrity.

Speaking of which... Scawen, what's your twitter handle?