LFS has not been dethroned as the "potentially" best drifting sim in over a decade. Unrealistic tire heat mechanics are still it's Achilles heel.

Anyone who's drifted an underpowered car knows, if you're not pinned, there's a harder entry, a cleaner line, a better-placed exit to find. The most fun to have in drifting is unleashing all available energy into the equation and channeling it with precision. Currently in LFS, after a handful of short AU1 laps, the fight for angle turns inside out. "Drifting" becomes a precarious balancing act around the front wheels, with constant threat of a snap spin, not unlike a FWD with food trays under the rears. It's not exciting. Please give us more grip.

Besides the handling changes that is supposed to come...
This is Live For Speed, a racing simulator.

It never was proclaimed as a drift simulator, although people love drifting on it. It's great for drifting but I doubt drift handling is top priority at the moment - the remodelled tire model is more important for racing now.

Quote from MicroSpecV :

Besides the handling changes that is supposed to come...
This is Live For Speed, a racing simulator.

It never was proclaimed as a drift simulator, although people love drifting on it. It's great for drifting but I doubt drift handling is top priority at the moment - the remodelled tire model is more important for racing now.

If you have great physics it shouldn't matter what you're using it for. Soap tires (hot temperatures) can be a problem if you're pushing it too much with racing as well.

I get your point, but I think with improved tyre physics the drifting aspect of LFS should be fixed as well. Not sure though, I didn't really follow it, so I don't know if Scawen has said anything about drifting or high temperatures in general.

'Scawen pls fix' - a new meme has born.

Since the long time and maniacal care taken in its still-ongoing development, I would guess that when we have the improved tyre physics, everything (drifting included) will handle better.

LiveForSpeed's hybrid physical/sampled tires were/are ahead of their time. Their strengths are purity and well-roundedness, not realism. Like every sport that has crossed the world, driving is fun. If LFS can deliver that spirit with it's own flavor of intuitive depth hand-in-hand, I hope it can not help but be recognized.

use templock

You can get a lap in on most autocross layouts before the tires start to melt. And at that point you can do a bit of 3rd gear and then start over. No one is forcing you do take 3+ laps on the same set.

Quote from pärtan :

You can get a lap in on most autocross layouts before the tires start to melt. And at that point you can do a bit of 3rd gear and then start over. No one is forcing you do take 3+ laps on the same set.

Yes, but the front tires stay cold, limiting grip and response. Before they are warm, at least in the XRT, the rears have given up.

Quote from mosquitohater93 :

Yes, but the front tires stay cold, limiting grip and response. Before they are warm, at least in the XRT, the rears have given up.

Fair enough. Have you tried putting R-tires in the front. That makes a very responsive cold setup.

Quote from mosquitohater93 :

... Please give us more grip.

no => in fact there is too much grip already for the tires.
This is one of the factor leading to heat up too much the tires because they accept too much load before sliding. Same that is leading aswell to have lots of difficulties to drive "quickly" without a locked differential : outside is having so much grip that the inside is leaving the ground ^^
Then there is of course the fact that tires are cooling down too slowly ...
Please Scawen, fix this

Quote from Flotch :

no => in fact there is too much grip already for the tires.
This is one of the factor leading to heat up too much the tires because they accept too much load before sliding. Same that is leading aswell to have lots of difficulties to drive "quickly" without a locked differential : outside is having so much grip that the inside is leaving the ground ^^
Then there is of course the fact that tires are cooling down too slowly ...
Please Scawen, fix this

Yeah.... this, in un-TL;DR fashion

This is why going fast in races requires "mario-karting" of the cars - where you purposely induce oversteer to 4-wheel drift a car around a corner, taking crude advantage of the tire grip and non-existant slip.

Needs to change fast, going fast now is down to basically changing your driving style to something that just isn't realistic; you won't ever see a FOX or XRG equivilant car on a real racetrack slipping sideways to gain time in a corner - it's just wrong in so many ways, and still the reason why I'm a purist and don't mario kart cars at all. Perhaps why I'm never at the top of the charts, but heck I like to drive my car like normal...

Quote from Flotch :

no => in fact there is too much grip already for the tires.
This is one of the factor leading to heat up too much the tires because they accept too much load before sliding. Same that is leading aswell to have lots of difficulties to drive "quickly" without a locked differential : outside is having so much grip that the inside is leaving the ground ^^
Then there is of course the fact that tires are cooling down too slowly ...
Please Scawen, fix this

By more grip, I mean, more grip when hot.
I think the tires gain/lose too much grip from load changes.

The XRG can pull nearly 1.00g lateral sustained, with "normal" tires, front tire width of ~180mm. "Eco" tires good for 0.9g or less would be better for beginners, casual hotlapping, "my real car" experience, and drifting.

The fact the XRG/XRT have staggered tires, unheard of for production or race cars of their caliber, tells me they knew something wasn't right when they configured them.

Quote from MicroSpecV :

...going fast now is down to basically changing your driving style to something that just isn't realistic...I like to drive my car like normal...

Yeah. :/

Quote from mosquitohater93 :

The fact the XRG/XRT have staggered tires, unheard of for production or race cars of their caliber, tells me they knew something wasn't right when they configured them.

Fair point. However remember that Scawen has acknowledged that there is a problem with the tire physics, and is working hard on it as it is. And he already gets much backlash from the impatient part of the community. Just give him time to do his thing and perhaps your observations will be fixed in the next physics update when it arrives.

Also, just a side note. For what the physics are currently, I'd say that they are pretty darn good, regardless if they aren't 1:1 with reality. I'd go so far as to say it's the most realistic feeling car simulator ever made. So that's something at least.

Impatient: been waiting 10+ years, begging for fresh content.

I prefer improved physics/graphics than just adding more content, but the balance is the key.

If the new physics/graphics are released today or to the end of this year - there is a balance, especially for a such small team and the level of realism.

But if we need to wait another couple of years for the new physics/graphics without adding new content - then the balance is disturbed.

Those are great things to want, but they don't bring in new users, or more specifically new users' money. Nor do they keep current users around when experiences get stale. I still race blackwood pretty frequently, I just do it in AC where I can try a new car now and then. After trying the Formula 2000 Skip Barber, I can tell you something like the FBM on street legal tires would be utterly amazing.

I get where Scawen comes from with "No new cars u til new tiremodel!", But c'mon. 10+ years. I've bought cars and tracks for AC that are of leagues higher visual quality and comparable physics depth. When I make dashboards in Simhub I still take care to make them compatible with LFS, and I still love the feel and Dynamics. But it's stale. It's become.the nephew I love, but am utterly disappointed in.

Quote from Evolution_R :

...then the balance is disturbed.

Your idea of a good balance between two specific goals. Scawen's idea of a good balance (let alone which or how many goals he's balancing) may vary

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

After trying the Formula 2000 Skip Barber, I can tell you something like the FBM on street legal tires would be utterly amazing.

This I would love, almost as much as I'd love to stick a set of knobblies onto a FXR and go churn up a field. RB4 field-hooning is great, but MOAR PWR! and all that. Tyre restriction is not a coding issue, just a matter of preference (Scawen's said before it's for realism, IIRC).

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

I get where Scawen comes from with "No new cars u til new tiremodel!", But c'mon.

That one's not just about priority, it's to avoid duplicated effort. The current cars have been extensively tweaked/tested to make the way they interact with the old tyre physics better (again, IIRC. I think he said he something along the lines of wallpapering over some tyre physics sins with car model hacks, but I can't find the reference). Long story short: there's more than the usual content development goes into putting cars into current-physics-version LFS, the extra time would be wasted effort if he did it before the physics. I don't fancy your chances of swaying him on this particular issue

It seems silly to have to point it out, but tracks/venues are content too. Content I've happily purchased for AC I would add.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

Impatient: been waiting 10+ years, begging for fresh content.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

It seems silly to have to point it out, but tracks/venues are content too. Content I've happily purchased for AC I would add.

Well at least in that time we got
- A few car updates for XF and XR in Z25
- Open configurations (X and Y)
- Updated Westhill track with much road, and fresh kart tracks, and also new configurations for the main track
- Updated blackwood with industrial area
- Rockingham
- Updated layout editor with new objects

And now we're at a stage where they are updating every track as we speak in order to intergrate a lighting system. It's not the best time to 'beg for fresh content' in my opinion. Oh well.

Another thing to point out is that LFS is a game which is initially released in 2003. Let's see here.
Need for Speed Underground 1
Original Call of Duty
Simpsons Hit and Run
Tony Hawks Underground 1
Midnight Club 2.
Just a few examples of games from the same era. How many of these games have been updated in 10 years?
Cut the developers some slack. They are in fact still working on it.

saper is from 1981 and wasnt updated too

Quote from pärtan :

Well at least in that time we got
- A few car updates for XF and XR in Z25
- Open configurations (X and Y)
- Updated Westhill track with much road, and fresh kart tracks, and also new configurations for the main track
- Updated blackwood with industrial area
- Rockingham
- Updated layout editor with new objects

And now we're at a stage where they are updating every track as we speak in order to intergrate a lighting system. It's not the best time to 'beg for fresh content' in my opinion. Oh well.

Another thing to point out is that LFS is a game which is initially released in 2003. Let's see here.
Need for Speed Underground 1
Original Call of Duty
Simpsons Hit and Run
Tony Hawks Underground 1
Midnight Club 2.
Just a few examples of games from the same era. How many of these games have been updated in 10 years?
Cut the developers some slack. They are in fact still working on it.

X and Y layouts were a thing when I left this game 10 years ago. As to the point of it being released in 2003, it's been 16 years and it's not even 1.0. With exception of Simpsons Hit and Run every game you mentioned has been through multiple successful iterations since then. Each with new fresh content and experiences for players.

What did they actually change on those cars? They look functionally identical to how they did when I left the scene. No shade, seriously curious. ABS on the RB and FZ, thats about it as far as i can tell.

And I applaud the two updated tracks and one new one.... in 10 years. It bears repeating, this is a game I do actually love, but also one that disappoints like a kid that peaked in early highschool. Like some back woods outpost that thinks the Cold War is still going on, the world of sim racing has moved on without it.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

X and Y layouts were a thing when I left this game 10 years ago. As to the point of it being released in 2003, it's been 16 years and it's not even 1.0. With exception of Simpsons Hit and Run every game you mentioned has been through multiple successful iterations since then. Each with new fresh content and experiences for players.

X and Y configurations came 8 years ago in 6B.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

And I applaud the two updated tracks and one new one.... in 10 years. It bears repeating, this is a game I do actually love, but also one that disappoints like a kid that peaked in early highschool. Like some back woods outpost that thinks the Cold War is still going on, the world of sim racing has moved on without it.

So what it's been 10 years? What gives you the right to demand other people to do things for you. They work on this game in their spare time. They can take 50 years if they want to and you don't have anything to say about it. Just let them finish it in their own pace. If you're so bored with this game, why do you play it. Leave it alone for a while and maybe it will spark your interest again after a while, before or after the updates come out.

Yes, they absolutely can, and by then nobody will care about this wonderful sim at all. Don't mistake this for a demand, it's more akin to begging someone to go to rehab.

I have downloaded and tried to find joy in this a couple times over the years. No online racing though. I'd barely call myself "back" as it is. If you know the history of my old team you would also know why i found it very hard to care for the experience.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

It seems silly to have to point it out, but tracks/venues are content too.

Especially so when we know that that's what they're doing right now