Thank you, that is unanimous so far (you'd like to have an option but if no option, for now, you'd still like an engine repair (selected by the existing F12 repair option) so your car can be totally fixed in the pits).

On the health percentage for 'major damage' I wonder if it should be a bit higher than 95%? Suppose someone damages their engine pretty badly and it's down to 97% but they get away with a 6 second repair because it's considered 'minor damage'.

So maybe 97% or 98% might be a better threshold? That is only going by Michal's comment so far. I know it can be adjusted in future but it might be better not to be too 'generous' at this point?

Option2 obviously. I'd say make it at 90% for minor/major repair.
Also make it available as a server setting to force no repair for those hardcore racers

All right, thank you for the feedback. D7 is now available.

I went for 97% to distinguish minor / major engine damage. Let's see how that goes.

Changes in D7:

Engine damage can now be repaired in pit stop
- yellow counts as minor damage (6 seconds)
- red counts as major damage (12 seconds)

Engine health now changes from yellow to red at 97%

Engine health percentage is no longer displayed for remote cars

EXPERIMENTAL option to avoid low-res (simple) physics in multiplayer
- Options... Misc... Avoid simple physics [EXPERIMENTAL]
- low res physics is normally applied to cars other than the 4 nearest
- the option approximately doubles CPU usage by physics in multiplayer
- could cause problems at turn 1 with many cars - only use on powerful PC
- use the "profiler" display to check CPU usage with this option enabled
- profiler enabled by pressing car icon then P in Misc or Graphics options

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102117

lovely option to repair the engine but isn't 12 secs too little for a major engine damage? should be at least 30 or 1 minute.

ps. one more sugestion and i'll shut up

Can we have all mirrors setting back like in 0.6v? I found them helpful on cars like the prototype 2 and future modern gt cars since they don't have ''analog'' central mirrors but virtual ones.

Bug report:

You get kicked from 0.7D servers for OOS, when you repair your car on Pit Stops. ( repairing engine damage )

The high res physics seems to fix the "dancing" car issue we had on the E-Challenge grid (tested by turning on/off in the replay)

The increased CPU doesn't seem to have much of an effect on my PC, which is nice

Quote from Facu23 :

lovely option to repair the engine but isn't 12 secs too little for a major engine damage? should be at least 30 or 1 minute.

LFS mechanics are among the world's finest.

Quote from superlame :

Bug report:

You get kicked from 0.7D servers for OOS, when you repair your car on Pit Stops. ( repairing engine damage )

Thank you, now fixed in D8.

Quote from Degats :

The high res physics seems to fix the "dancing" car issue we had on the E-Challenge grid (tested by turning on/off in the replay)

The increased CPU doesn't seem to have much of an effect on my PC, which is nice

It should be a lot better now when tabbing to other cars, often a car would seem to skate off sideways a bit (or a lot) when it hadn't been on the screen for a short while. Partly because it was in low-res physics before you brought it onto screen.

So I hope it might improve the appearance of LFS during the broadcasts quite a bit, along with the D4 update "Reduced glitch of multiplayer cars after TAB or fast forward replay".

i prefer option 1, the low repair times make it feel rather inconsequential.

I don't see any reason to hide the engine health. If you opponent has engine damage, your car will perform better, that's it. It doesn't matter if you can see the exact number or not. You wont be faster by knowing your opponent has engine condition of 96%, 80% or whatever just for the fact of knowing it, so I would show it always.

I would at least propose the folowing:

• It should be possible to see engine health with exact percentage in replays, SPR and MPR.
  
• I would apply this previous point also to tyres temperatures and fuel in MPR, there is no reason to hide exact temperatures in MPR, and its good for learning ways to improve your driving or your set, or seeing the fuel for race analysis after race.
  
• Display engine health percentage always, or at least make it server side configurable, just like the /showfuel=yes/no
  

Again, knowing the fuel of your opponent gives you a strategy information that can change a race result, but knowing the exact engine condition doesn't give you any strategy information that you can use or that will affect to the final result.

I am for option 2, with the possibility to adjust the repair times in the future.
For this patch it will be ok and a good addition, but i believe in future the repair times will need some tweaking.

Quote from Scawen :

So maybe 97% or 98% might be a better threshold? That is only going by Michal's comment so far. I know it can be adjusted in future but it might be better not to be too 'generous' at this point?

My experience with LFS Lazy in the past is the same as Michal, .5 percent of damage made a huge difference. .3 was OK ish. But I remember .5 was enough for me to go to pits.
Needs further study.

Option 2 for me too.

Option 2 for me as well. 3% engine damage might be already huge, but we have to test it.

People complain about the very fast mechanics in lfs. But this is a game after all and I like this more than iRacing's 30 minute rapairs when punted off by a backmarker

Having said that, in the future having a choice on the repair time per server might be perfect. As in an endurance race losing 12 seconds is no loss at all. While 30+ seconds engine changing might cost a lap.

Quote from rik97 :

Option 2 for me as well. 3% engine damage might be already huge, but we have to test it.

People complain about the very fast mechanics in lfs. But this is a game after all and I like this more than iRacing's 30 minute rapairs when punted off by a backmarker

Having said that, in the future having a choice on the repair time per server might be perfect. As in an endurance race losing 12 seconds is no loss at all. While 30+ seconds engine changing might cost a lap.

30 minutes to replace an engine is already done by an incredibly speedy pit crew.

Quote from gu3st :

30 minutes to replace an engine is already done by an incredibly speedy pit crew.

Haha yeah very true, for endurance it might need a bigger penalty

Thanks for the feedback, let's see how that goes.

small idea...
The repair time could be proportional to the length of the race. So it would still have its functionality in short races, and its credibility in long-term races.

These are really nice improvements, thank you for adding them.

Maybe bug report:

I am driving with Logitech G29+Shifter. Normally it manages the steering lock for each car and blocks the wheel at maximum angle LFS gives. But now it does not limit the wheel, after full steering wheel continues to turn but in LFS its at max angle. Like I mean steering lock is 540 degrees. In LFS at 540 it stops to turn but G29 it doesn't block and you can turn the wheel to 900 degrees.

If you have engine running problems after over revving it should be quite long repair. Try to take head off and change valves in pits. Maybie server host option if engine repair is allowed or not. At default it should be not.

There is little that is realistic about suspension and engine damage in LFS and I don't see any benefit in trying to make the repair times realistic. Obviously not now, and probably never.

But that could be some whole philosophical debate. In my opinion the damage should be sufficient to stop you doing bad things in races that you wouldn't do in reality - that keeps the racing real, which is the point here - but it's actually "better than reality" that you can get these things fixed super fast and not be entirely knocked out of a long race for some minor error like an early downshift.

I mean, this whole philosophical debate about realism can go pretty deep, and I remember someone suggested having a job in the game to earn money to buy your car parts. Well my opinion is, if you want it that realistic, just use the real world, get a real job and go real racing. Then you can find out how much broken parts cost. To me, a game can be, in some ways, *better* than reality. Taking LFS as an example, you spend a lot more time racing and a lot less time fixing things.

At the moment, for this version, in which engine damage has finally become repairable, I don't yet see any inconsistency between the super-fast engine repair times and the super-fast suspension repair times.

totally agree, though as a design improvement, it would be nice to be able to change repair times on the server, maybe on a per user basis, to reduce them (or even make them instantaneous) for very short races, or make them longer for endurance or cruise servers which aim to be more "roleplay" and immersive, maybe allow servers to create things like "fast repairs bonus" for players on the back of the field or with higher experience, that kind of stuff.

Does there need to be this threshold?
Or could it be like each 0.1% damage adds 5 seconds?

For the more creative repair rules that were suggested:
Customizable repair rules seem more suited for insim scripts rather than built into LFS because of how many options one can imagine.
If I see correctly there already exists a command to teleport cars:

Quote :

// IS_JRR can also be used to move an existing car to a different location

So if you want a longer repair time then just keep reseting the car to the pitbox position if he moved too early.
That is one example, I think insim allows for many ways to create custom rules.
A way to hold a player car (maybe a can-not-move-timer in the IS_JRR package) might help make things look nicer but general a lot is already possible.

Quote from Gutholz :

Does there need to be this threshold?
Or could it be like each 0.1% damage adds 5 seconds?

It was already discussed, how I've added it in an extremely simple and quick way using the existing system.

Apparently I have made a mistake by moving such posts into the "no longer needed" thread:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2031828#post2031828

I'm not wondering about things to add to the test patch. I'm fully immersed in the development version.

For anyone who hasn't followed the test patch process, this isn't me sitting around with nothing to do, randomly and suddenly thinking about pointless things to add to a test patch. In fact, it was all about one thing leading to another.

History of this test patch:

- some things were needed for MRc E-challenge
- therefore a test patch was required
- I have noticed a lot of concern about LFSLazy not working
- added a couple of the most requested features from LFSLazy
- one of those was engine damage display
- this inspired me to do a 5 minute update to allow engine repair
- this was discussed at length here before implementing

That's it. I don't want to put effort into refining it at this time.

Good enough, for me the main thing is that nothing distracts devs from the development of the main version for the update with new graphics and physics.

Quote from Xenix74 :

small idea...
The repair time could be proportional to the length of the race. So it would still have its functionality in short races, and its credibility in long-term races.

That's actually a great idea, but the ability to define the "skill of the mechanics", (maybe in the same way we define the skill of AI ) would also be cool. If not, just a way to specify how much of an impact damage has on stoppage time.

Noticeable improvements with D8 visible in last night's RTFRXL broadcast, and it should improve things with the lighter cars too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WREk3Eet9fc