Well i did an even faster lap on Westhill international (added SPR), could've gone faster but was a bit cautious with hot tires at the end there.

Really love the stability now, it's super stable on braking zones, fast corners, even bumpy roads are not a problem now. Before the bike would unsettle a lot if you tried to take a fast corner on a bumpy road. And it's still as nimble as before.

Quote from Scawen :

With such a report, it is better if you can tell me a specific bike and roughly what speed and what you were trying to do. Otherwise I really have no idea where to start.

I think what Marty is trying to say is that low speed model and interpolation between the low and high speed models have less sensitivity and you have to turn the wheel more. I don't really like it myself either. High speed model feels very responsive to controls so driving above 72km/h all is good but when you drop below that, sensitivity starts to decrease and you have to turn the wheel more to make the corner. I suppose it drops sensitivity gradually and that's why it feels weird and unresponsive and hard to know how much to turn the wheel at certain speed.

I'd prefer D44 low speed handling it was very responsive, doing low speed figure 8's or u turns on a small road was so easy. Good way to test that between the versions is to load Karting national it has plenty of slow turns. I'm sure most of the bikes act the same but i was using Reaper X1 for testing that.


Also, is tire digging into the ground will be fixed in the new tires physics? Kinda messes up wheelies and stoppies now

bike physics are super stable now. except for slow speeds.

Quote from Scawen :

With such a report, it is better if you can tell me a specific bike and roughly what speed and what you were trying to do. Otherwise I really have no idea where to start.

The Trex bicycle. But maybe dont change it just for me if the bike pros think its better this way. It just takes some getting used to, for me i guess

Thanks for the feedback, and nice riding demonstrations.

The only thing I don't understand yet is what some people say about the low speed steering model.

In fact, the angle of lean (for any given steering input) in the low speed model (between 7 km/h and 36 km/h) is exactly the same as the lean angle in the high speed model (e.g. above 72 km/h).

I tried Westhill Karting National in D44 and D45, using REAPER X1, and for me D45 was much better. D44 was swaying all over the place as if the rider was drunk. The aim of the low speed model is to make the bike easy to maneuver at low speeds, e.g. entering or leaving pit garages, at junctions etc. In fact the high speed model really doesn't work at the low speeds, so I was really pleased to find something that does work.

As I say, compared with D44, the D45 model can successfully set the lean angle and stick to it. D44 might swing in too tight or too wide and sort of swing around, it's so unpredictable even the AI can't handle it, and this was apparent when crashed AI tried to rejoin the race. Actually I haven't checked AI pitting yet but I suspect they are more successful in D45, because they try to set a lean angle and that can actually happen in D45, whereas in D44 it's not predictable.

To my mind, the D45 low speed model has many advantages over D44. So I would like to really understand what exactly is the issue you experience, what makes the "drunk rider" experience of D44 better (at low speed) than the more "in control" experience of D45.

NOTE: The extreme low speed model (up to 7 km/h - the "feet down" model) is unchanged.

I haven't done much low-speed maneuvering (and not that much riding either), but I agree with Scawen on D45 low speed, D44 and before, the bike would make one or two big oscillations after a low speed corner, and now this doesn't happen anymore.
Very pleased with D45, bikes are pretty fun to ride, even though I'm terrible... At the very least, I feel this should be good enough until the new physics.

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks for the feedback, and nice riding demonstrations.

The only thing I don't understand yet is what some people say about the low speed steering model.

In fact, the angle of lean (for any given steering input) in the low speed model (between 7 km/h and 36 km/h) is exactly the same as the lean angle in the high speed model (e.g. above 72 km/h).

I tried Westhill Karting National in D44 and D45, using REAPER X1, and for me D45 was much better. D44 was swaying all over the place as if the rider was drunk. The aim of the low speed model is to make the bike easy to maneuver at low speeds, e.g. entering or leaving pit garages, at junctions etc. In fact the high speed model really doesn't work at the low speeds, so I was really pleased to find something that does work.

As I say, compared with D44, the D45 model can successfully set the lean angle and stick to it. D44 might swing in too tight or too wide and sort of swing around, it's so unpredictable even the AI can't handle it, and this was apparent when crashed AI tried to rejoin the race. Actually I haven't checked AI pitting yet but I suspect they are more successful in D45, because they try to set a lean angle and that can actually happen in D45, whereas in D44 it's not predictable.

To my mind, the D45 low speed model has many advantages over D44. So I would like to really understand what exactly is the issue you experience, what makes the "drunk rider" experience of D44 better (at low speed) than the more "in control" experience of D45.

NOTE: The extreme low speed model (up to 7 km/h - the "feet down" model) is unchanged.

So the way I tested this was in d44, I would take a bike and try to solemn the center markers, this was easily approachable as the input was more direct in d44 at lower speeds.

In d45 everything is much better but at low speed the same solemn won't be possible due to what I feel is a damper of quick rapid input.

basically it was more direct in d44 and in d45 there's a damper that prevents such rapid movement.

I don't know if I speak for everyone but if adjusting this causes issues with what you have achieved I'd rather live with this as it's mild.

The new bike physics feel great, i've not encoutered any low speed steering problems that others have mentioned, in my experience it feels better now. using mouse steering btw

I tested D45 with CHIMERA X1, the new handling is definitely better, now I can drive more confident, it's very fun.
And with some more improvements, I think LFS can beat the PiBoSo's GP Bikes.
I'm driving with [keyboard - no help], because with [keyboard - stabilized] the bike doesn't turn at high speeds.

Quote from Scawen :

To my mind, the D45 low speed model has many advantages over D44. So I would like to really understand what exactly is the issue you experience, what makes the "drunk rider" experience of D44 better (at low speed) than the more "in control" experience of D45.

While yes the D45 is a lot more stable at low speeds and it's harder to fall (i assume for people who use mouse or gamepad), it also limits you severely. With D44 i can drive through tight corners a lot faster by flinging the bike left and right. Yes it's a lot easier to fall but it's also a lot more maneuverable.

I've attached a layout and 2 replays one with D44 and one with D45 so you can hopefully understand my problem. If you enable virtual steering gauge, on D44 i don't even max out the steering angle on those corners while on D45 i max it out and then have to wait for the bike to actually do something. It's also a lot slower because of that.

In my mind D44 is more "in control" at low speed, as you do the driving, D45 sort of takes the control away from you because it expects you to fall and slaps some training wheels on I mean that's how it feels like.

Quote from Evolution_R :

I tested D45 with CHIMERA X1, the new handling is definitely better, now I can drive more confident, it's very fun.
And with some more improvements, I think LFS can beat the PiBoSo's GP Bikes.
I'm driving with [keyboard - no help], because with [keyboard - stabilized] the bike doesn't turn at high speeds.

Keyboard stabilized is more stable for me but yeah doesn't turn at high speeds so no great.. Because Limit multiplier 1.20 is max..
Scacwen could make tweak "Limit multiplier" increase to 5.0 will help better turn at high speeds stable driving with keyboard stabilized. Would be great fun keyboard user. Can scawen please?

Limit multiplier bike turn speed test:
0.40 - 20 kph can turn but cant turn 30 kph.
1.20 - 30 kph can turn but can't turn +40 kph or more.

Just wanted to chime in on the update for bikes. It feels amazing now compared to D44. I can actually do a few laps without falling in every corner.

Now I get super 'scary' stoppies under braking and some drifting that's actually recoverable. So yeah, I really enjoy riding a bike now. The 'horizon' locked view is also insane, feels like VR almost.

I was just wondering; can we separate the views for cars now? I like the horizon lock on bikes, but I don't like it that much in cars. And I can't always position the driver enough backwards to get the cockpit in view a bit with the speedo. Like with the FoV slider, seems like all vehicles are in the same type of view.

The improved bike physics feels amazing. They're much easier to drive now for new comers. Although I'll have to mention the view settings for bikes are a bit rough.

I'm not able to get the view low enough to see the dashboard gauges on the bike.
I've tested this on the following resolutions with the same result:

• 5760x1080
  
• 3440x1440
  
• 1920x1080
  

Could this perhaps be per-mod related?

Thanks again for the feedback!

Quote from Evolution_R :

I tested D45 with CHIMERA X1, the new handling is definitely better, now I can drive more confident, it's very fun.
And with some more improvements, I think LFS can beat the PiBoSo's GP Bikes.

Thanks. I looked up PiBoSo and found this video which shows some nice motion. I like the bike dynamics and rider movement. I hope to do similar at some point (in the new development version after it is released).

Quote from Drifteris :

While yes the D45 is a lot more stable at low speeds and it's harder to fall (i assume for people who use mouse or gamepad), it also limits you severely. With D44 i can drive through tight corners a lot faster by flinging the bike left and right. Yes it's a lot easier to fall but it's also a lot more maneuverable.

I've attached a layout and 2 replays one with D44 and one with D45
...

That's a great demonstration. I'll try some experiments.

Quote from kristofferandersen :

The improved bike physics feels amazing. They're much easier to drive now for new comers. Although I'll have to mention the view settings for bikes are a bit rough.

I'm not able to get the view low enough to see the dashboard gauges on the bike.
I've tested this on the following resolutions with the same result:

• 5760x1080
  
• 3440x1440
  
• 1920x1080
  

Could this perhaps be per-mod related?

Try getting the pitch down a bit.

Quote from Bose321 :

I was just wondering; can we separate the views for cars now? I like the horizon lock on bikes, but I don't like it that much in cars.

^ *Per* Vehicle view AND control settings is a must have, but its surely already a planned task in future. Jfi in iRacing for example there is a global setting for controls and then a checkmark "use custom controls for this car" which lets you redo all controls for that particular vehicle. Would also be cool for the custom cam settings to be embedded per vehicle in the mod file. In iracing all cars have their own cams.
This however has nothing to do with test patch testing, i felt naughty :-)

Quote from Scawen :

Thanks. I looked up PiBoSo and found this video which shows some nice motion. I like the bike dynamics and rider movement. I hope to do similar at some point (in the new development version after it is released).

the wheelie at the end <3

Quote from kristofferandersen :

I'm not able to get the view low enough to see the dashboard gauges on the bike.

I use custom view so you can actually move it back a lot more in Y axis, sort of placing it inside the riders helmet so it doesn't obstruct the view and then pitch it down a bit.

Loving the bike update! Very nice and playable on mouse steering. Excellent job.

Regarding bikes, one thing I have noticed is that doing ride height adjustments moves the front wheel in Z axis, and not in the steering axis. And the wheel is misaligned with the fork when you lower it. (as seen in the image)
Not sure if this is a mod based issue or a game based issue. But the spring action acts correctly. Just a little detail.

Thanks again for the testing and feedback.

D46 contains updates for the low speed steering, making it faster to change lean angle, while leaving the high speed steering unaffected. I hope you'll find this makes it better at low speeds.

I hope that low speed stability has not been diminished. It seemed fine on the bikes I tested.

Interestingly (for me at least) it seems that a change on the final day or two before D45 was released, allowed the high speed steering model to work fine at lower speeds than the test version I had before that. So in D46 the high speed model goes all the way down to 36 km/h before the low speed model is brought in.

Changes in D46:

Low speed steering model changes lean angle in half the time
Low speed to high speed model transition is at half the speed
- Feet down model up to 7 km/h
- Low speed model only from 7 km/h to 18 km/h
- Interpolated model from 18 km/h to 36 km/h
- High speed model only above 36 km/h
FIX: Steering glitch between feet down model and low speed model

Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/102117

This was made on patch D45, the change is like from water to whine! Im just downloading D46 and expect it to be equally better

Quote from Drifteris :

Also, is tire digging into the ground will be fixed in the new tires physics? Kinda messes up wheelies and stoppies now

Please fix this if it's not something that would take immense amount of work, it's impossible to do proper wheelies as the bike will lose all control as the rear wheel sinks inside ground Now that we got sideways stability i can't wait to start doing controlled balance point wheelies

D46 is really good, overall most of us has surpassed all our previous world records on various bikes. Very good job, 10x enjoyable.

Wonder why spent so much time on this bikes, when nobody will make championship or endurance race with them like with cars?! Didnt understand really...

Dirt now ^^
#no dirt sound
#Gyroscopic effect too much at curve on dirt (BF8E78)?

Quote from BorislavB :

when nobody will make championship or endurance race with them

chicken and egg situation. You cannot make a competition out of something which is undriveable

people like the progress, there is overall feeling of fun, life is about having fun