Quote from WIGGA :

Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/309 ... ch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI

Nice pants!

Is that R-factor?

It's either GTR2 or WTCC --- errr excuse me "RACE" :rolleyes:. Brands Hatch specifically I think.

Quote from WIGGA :

Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/309 ... ch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI

pg

Quote from Tweaker :

Video doesn't work for me. WMP plays it with an equalizer, VLC says it is broken.... Maybe I am missing a codec, but its not working correctly at all.

ffd says its a normal xvid and plays it just fine

i wish i didnt watch that video... i want the g25 so bad it hurts a little

Quote from mcman :

The G25 FFB Transmission...

Wow! (the post and the specs)

Quote from J.B. :

Wow! (the post and the specs)

Huh? G25 doesn't have FFB shifter..... illepall

Quote from Tweaker :

Huh? G25 doesn't have FFB shifter..... illepall

hes talking about the transmission from the ffb motors to the wheel shaft

Quote from JJ72 :

Nice pants!

Is that R-factor?

THX
Its GTR2 with an Honda Accord

Quote from Shotglass :

pg

hehe! i only want to see how it is to drive with an Gearbox! and ist quite HARD!
I go 5 Times to the Logitech place and drive all about 1hour with the G25 and the vid is the first time i drive!

Edit: My parents buy it for me at christmas (24.December) and I still cant wait.
Edit: Who want's to buy my 1/2 Year old Driving Force Pro and my 1 year old Wingman Formula Force GP ?

Quote from mcman :

The G25 FFB Transmission uses precision ball bearings: a snap ring version of the DFP "after bearing" and a smaller race version of the MOMO Force transmission (50 mm ID, 72 mm OD) as the "forward bearing" (similar layout to MOMO Force). The main shaft is glass filled Nylon 66 for very high strength with the "bull gear" integrated into the shaft for superior concentricity. Two, high torque, DC motors operate through a 16:1 reduction with a anti-backlash gear system providing direct drive to the motor mounted high resolution optical encoder. This approach means that any movement of the wheel results in movement of the optical encoder for exact input response. Further benefits of the two motor transmission are much lower interia, lower pitch line velocity of the gears for greatly reduced noise, and increased frequency response due to minimized FFB gear backlash (single reduction compared to double reduction). Number of motors, motor torque, and gear ratio were chosen to provide the same torque at the wheel rim as DFP (though it feels like more due to lower system losses).

Using more gears equals more power loss in-between. Using space materials on the shaft of the ffb wheels mean nothing when you attach it onto plastic frame (or is the frame some harder stuff too?) or if you use a plastic part to connect the wheel and the shaft

Quote from mcman :

This design approach produces a much lighter feel and a quicker response than a standard gear based double reduction transmission. The wheel uses 3.0 mm thick stainless steel spokes providing a very rigid driving experience, and is hand wrapped with real leather. The hub mounted Paddle Shifters are constructed from 2.0 mm thick SS and operate lever arm switches in the hub (rotate with the wheel). Total rotation is 900 degrees "lock to lock" using a similar stop system as DFP, but without the mechanical 200 degree sliding stop.

The thickness of the spokes nor the materials used have 0 effect on the rigidity of the wheel. If you look for a rigid and precise ways to attach the wheel to its shaft, you don't use plastic. Plastic gets weaker as time passes by and breaks eventually. Main flexing (clap) occurs in the transmission and in the bearings. If the bearings don't wear drastically, there is no play. And then the "transmission". You can't take all the play out from a pair of cogs. If you use some kind of spring solution, you get no play in one direction but a lot play when you change direction. If the ffb motors work this way (each one turns only to one direction, and the play is removed with springs), then you probably get no play from there. But you get resistance from the springs and from the motors. Using two motors instead of one is not a smart move anyway. You just double the electronics and mechanics envolved. But if it feels better, then it may be worth its prices.

Quote from mcman :

The pedals are constructed from plated CRS (cold rolled steel) and stainless steel: 2.2 mm CRS for the arms and frame, 3.0 mm SS for the pedal faces. Shoulder bolts with 8.00 mm diameters, and heavy duty plastic bushings provide a very high tolerance and rigid feel. The potentimeters are gear'ed up, using anti-backlash springs, to produce 55 degrees of potentiometer rotation from 20 degrees of input resulting in very smooth and very fine control. The stops are "metal to metal" to eliminate calibration destroying flex in the system. The pedal arms are connected to the back of the frame, once again, through 8.00 mm dia shoulder bolts, with a piston and cylinder arrangment. Springs of three different rates are enclosed inside these pistons; about twice the strength of DFP's pedal spring for the throttle, very strong for brake and firm for the clutch. These rates were finalized after many interations and many LFS laps! Each frame includes 2 tapped (M6X1 bolts) holes for mounting the pedal set to a simiulator structure, but also includes the patented "carpet lock" grip system used on DFP's pedal set.

Yes, the pedal unit seems very rigid. But I did not suspect the rigidity of the pedals in my first post. But I stand corrected, the angle of 55 degrees of potentiometer movement sounds enough. But why not use bearings on the pedals as well? Bushings are guaranteed to wear, though little play on the pedals has no sensible effect on anything

Quote from mcman :

The Shifter is a six speed, short throw, with locked out reverse. It is convertable to a standard sequencial to support non-gated shifter games. It is constructed from heat treated CRS, and high strength Delrin engineering plastic. The mechansim is based on potentiometers, not switches, to determine shifter position. It has a spring loaded ball bearing detent that holds it in each gear, and is spring loaded to neutral when not in gear. The shaft is 10.0 mm diameter steel with a alignment flat machined into the top to key the leather shifter knob which is held on with a machine screw. The boot is also made from real leather. The Shifter uses TWO clamps made from steel bolts and glass filled nylon jaws for table attachment and retention. The knob tops have a "spring loaded, push down and rotate to set" feature to prevent them from interfering with the users knuckles while shifting. A center "ANTI-TIP" arm and screw are included to prevent tipping when the shifter is pulled toward the user. It is not a clamp, and should not be over tightened during use. Two tapped (M6X1) brackets allow the Shifter to be mounted onto a similuator frame if desired. It also contains a symetric control panel allowing the Shifter to be mounted on the left or the right side of the user.

But the "symmetric" control panel looks very bad from an ergonomics point of view. You need to use your forefinger to operated the buttons on it, yes? The shifter sounds good, but it defenately lacks ergonomics.

And considered the fact that the wheel is made by logitech, I have serious doubts about its reliability. But at the same time I hope that I'm wrong and it's a damn good wheel for its pricetag

Quote from Hyperactive :

And considered the fact that the wheel is made by logitech, I have serious doubts about its reliability. But at the same time I hope that I'm wrong and it's a damn good wheel for its pricetag

Pedals being Logitech's biggest reliability issue... the wheel itself is like any other wheel that lasts. My red MOMO wheel still lasts to this day, even the pedals... after all the driving I've done with it. I still think the G25's pedals are far better than anything Logitech has ever made. If you look at nearly all of Logitech's pots and inner-workings of the pedals, you'll see that it is just simple plastic holdings and a small little cheap pot greased up for maximum breakage. The G25's pedal mechanics looks to be a better solution, and I am pretty sure nobody will have problems with them.

At least you can use the wheel and hook up the pedals and shifter seperately. I can only imagine companies like FREX making 3rd party pedals and shifters that will plug right into the G25 wheel unit. The G25 has got some really flexible features for "modding". Even bolt-on holes at the bottom for screwing it onto a cockpit, floor base... etc (Pedals, Shifter, & Wheel have whitesheets for such things)

I'm in Malaysia, and I want that wheel so bad.... grrrrr... getting one from here would be real tough.. even if I do... the price I need to pay... damn~!

Anyone in the same situation like me??

I guess you need to install the drivers and set the wheel rotation degree in control panel or Logitech Profiler (or what ever program the wheel comes with)

plz plz plz post a video of you drifting lol. i want to see how much faster the wheel is with 900degrees or at least 720

as krane said, there is a place in both global and specific game settings to adjust the steering lock if you check "use specific wheel settings" at the bottom

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame. I'm guessing you would set up the g25 the same as the DFP. links to those settings are in my sig below

Quote from Gabkicks :

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame.

you could always just set wheel turn compensation to 0 and use any value for rotation

Quote from Shotglass :

you could always just set wheel turn compensation to 0 and use any value for rotation

Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

Just matching whatever rotation the car really is isn't a hassle. I'd never use 900 degrees on a car that uses something less illepall

Quote from Tweaker :

Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

dont worry i was just pointing out a faster way to get full 900 working to try drifting at it which should be more fun than 720 as long as the wheel really is fast enough

Quote from Tweaker :

Downside to that is it will rotate farther than you really want it to if you are using say.... MRT, which is 270 iirc.

Just matching whatever rotation the car really is isn't a hassle. I'd never use 900 degrees on a car that uses something less illepall

he;s a demo user tho, so he cant drive the mrt under normal circumstances

Quote from Bufalo :

I dunno if it's taboo or whatever, but has anyone tried GTR2? Supposedly that will work with all the G25's functions (three pedals / shifter / 900*) as well?

GTR2 should be no different than LFS, rFactor, Nascar 2003, etc etc. I am sure using the G25 is easy as pie... maybe you've set something up wrong.

LFS works with 900 degrees, supports three pedals, and a shifter. I am not sure what makes it hard to figure out. Haven't got it setup right? Or not used to how challenging the game is? It isn't your average arcade hit'em-up-turn-at-insane-speeds---game.

Quote from Bufalo :

It's the first one I've tried, so I'm just getting a feel for them all.

Well you've made a wise first choice . Compared to Burnout... heh, LFS is nothing like that. If you practice with LFS and get really good at it, you can pretty much be good at any other racing game. I find LFS to be the most challenging, and other "simulations" are just a walk in the park after you've become acustomed to LFS.

Quote from Bufalo :

Oh no! I've got it all set up right, I'm just getting used to the game itself. Once someone said "hey dumbass, look in the control panel..." I got it all configured.

It's the simple fact of playing the game, that's what's got me. It'll take some practice to get used to it all.

I haven't DL'd GTR2 yet, any preferences? I would suspect than on an LFS forum, people will be partial to this game. It's the first one I've tried, so I'm just getting a feel for them all. Frankly, the closest thing I've come to playing a racing game at all is when my roommates bug me to play Burnout on the X360 with them. BLeh...

yeah gtr2 is fun as well. not as realistic and not as good force feedback as lfs, but still its a fun game to play. I reccomend at least 400 degrees with the dfp. you'll probably want to try 540 at least with the g25

Bufalo, you seriously have to show videos of you driving in LFS with the G25 (if possible)

Possible for you to write some more in depth review/impression on the wheel itself?
o yeah....Can you tell your boss to ship some over to Malaysia? lol

Bufalo,
Also, I know more than one person was iffy about the lack of a source about the news if the shifter had been fixed...

Have you ever driven a manual transmission in real life? If so, how does it compare?

If not, how well can you describe how it 'feels'?
Does it bounce back to between 3rd and 4th gear if you put it in neutral and let it go? Does it feel easy to slide it into gear, or do you have to fight it? Can you really easily accidently bump the shifter and have it go -out- of gear? What about the springs? (Incase you're wondering, a few early product demonstrations were done for user feedback and improvements. One of the big complaints was the shifter and these issues. Though they were not production models (meaning they could sitll make improvements), I don't recall seeing any actual, official, word that they had adjusted the shifter. I'm just reall curious )

Man, I can't wait until October... I accidently broke my Black Momo when I was working around the house, and I yanked the USB wire out of it's housing (so much that I can see the four colored wires and their copper ends). Rather than replace it, I'm focusing on skinning and the like for the moment, and buying the G25 when it comes out.

And the best part? My birthday is in October! Woop! And I should have my S2 license between now and then, so come the G25, all will be good.

Quote from Gabkicks :

plz plz plz post a video of you drifting lol. i want to see how much faster the wheel is with 900degrees or at least 720

as krane said, there is a place in both global and specific game settings to adjust the steering lock if you check "use specific wheel settings" at the bottom

if you want to fully use 900degrees for roadcars. you have to set it to 720 ingame. I'm guessing you would set up the g25 the same as the DFP. links to those settings are in my sig below

Here is one of me drifting with the DFP on 900 deg mode. G25 would be something the same i think only that the wheel is little bigger...And yes i do sit that close to the screen because i aint got much room behind me :P And no i am not a drifter...This movie was requested by one of my team m8s lol

i already have a dfp -_- when it came out and i've been drifting with it ever since...

Any Canadians who are interested in one of these might want to look at these two links:

http://www.ncix.com/products/i ... &manufacture=LOGITECH

http://www.shoprbc.com/ca/shop/product_details.php?pid=18406

If ~ $240 CAD (~ $215 USD) is going to be the wheel's actual street price when it comes out (which I believe is fairly accurate since both are reputable and unreleated e-tailers, both listing a similar price), then this is probably much more of a bargain than the initial MRSP of $299.99USD.