Quote :

In 94 remember the FIA was against Michael (and his team), and every decision favoured Hill and Williams

In that year (if I recall correctly, the year of the fuel rig O-ring) I counted 14 un-enacted breaches of the regulations by the Benetton team. I remember keeping track as the season went on of both the sporting conduct of the drivers (on track) and the team, although it's too long ago now to remember what they where, and admittedly some where on the second car. The point is the previous year I had noticed a trend and so I started keeping a tally. I know it's not much in the way of evidence, but it's enough for me to completely disagree with you .

Quote :

Right. Gesturing the international finger at another driver

The general consensus of the paddock is that he is a very calm driver and uses his head, from what i've seen as a spectator he hasn't lost his head very often. Even I have on ocassion let another driver know what I thought of them, using all manner of sign language, and despite my uncompromosing forum posts i'm actually a fairly relaxed person (honest!).

EDIT: I think this year though he has been ragged a few times, he's shown a few chinks in the armour during 2006.

Quote from Hoellsen :

Right. Gesturing the international finger at another driver (Monaco 2004 when he unnecessarily drove into the dirty part of the track and hence went into the armco) or waving hands multiple times at drivers that supposedly held him up or braketesting people that supposedly held him up - under yellow flags, mind you - are sure signs for a very calm person.

Man oh man, do you just read a little bit of forum posts and make a conclusion or what illepall You obviously don't watch F1 very closely, if at all.

Ralf Schumacher's car was travelling so slowly that it caught many drivers out. I know because one of my Dad's friends was at the GP at the corner just out of the tunnel. He said loads of drivers were caught out. Alonso went through the tunnel and excepted Ralf to yield, Ralf didn't resulting in Alonso being on the dirty side which put him in the wall. That car of Ralfs should have been given the black/orange flag as it was a danger on the track.

Please, please tell me who he passed under a yellow flag waving his hands while brake testing them FACT is there was no yellow or red flag which you seem to think there was. There was no supposedly, he held him up, Alonso was frustrated that he'd wasted one of his set of allocations of tyres and let out his frustration. This is the only time I've seen Alonso crack like that and with the pressure on his shoulders he has a strong head.

Hungary everything was against him, the penalties of one which he didn't deserve and two the mass damper saga meaning they were forced to remove them when they were told they'd be allowed to use them, last minute call by the FIA failing Red Bulls car. Giving they had a whole week or two they surely could have informed teams they changed there mind rather than just fail the cars at pre race scrutenering? Yet with all this going on Alonso kept his head and drove a stunning first few laps to be right up in the chase. Even when Schumacher blocked him when he should have yielded under the blue flags he just kept his head. Then the wheel nut went, did he throw a hissy ? No, he just walked off knowing he had lost an easy win.

Turkey, the car wasn't quick enough but did he crack? No, he kept himself up in the chase and it paid off. Schumi was too busy relaying on his team mate to slow down at some point in the GP that when the safety car came out he was screwed. Alonso took the position and held him off with some very nice smart defending.

Monza, a stupid penalty applied and a very frustrated Alonso. Did he fly into T1 with red mist taking over? No he kept his head and drove a fantastic race to 3rd to have an engine failure. Did he threw a fit and throw his steering wheel a mile away? No he just kept his head.

Not many drivers would keep such a positive look that Alonso does, even ice cool Kimi cracks and throws things about, can you blame him? No. Just because Alonso shows his frustration at back markers with his hands doesn't mean he is the only one. You really think that not one of them drivers gets very frustrated when being held up? Some will let it out verbally, some will start driving aggressively and others will let it out with gestures.

My first race my Dad told me that if anyone does something which is wrong or frustrates you let it out with a gesture. That way someone and/or the clerk of the course may see it. It's the most effective way to get the attention of marshals etc who aren't doing there job properly.

Keiran

Quote from keiran :

Alonso is as calm as you like but also a hard racer, I very much doubt he will resort to bumping other cars off the road.

We'll talk in a few years again, ok? ATM, he has as many penalties as schumi had after the same amount of years in F1...

I didnt say, he overtook in red flag, that was an ironic pointing to the second vid, where schumacher WASNT pushing at all, but passed them slowly, and Alonso clearly slowed down a lot for whatever reason... But hey, no need to argue with you, Alonso is clean and fair, doesnt braketest (what was that with coulthard in nürburgring and) and is the fairest and nicest racer ever. That's also the reason, why he starts whining and blaming the FIA for blown up engines... dream on, I enjoy meanwhile the last championship of the best racer of all times.

Quote from Vykos69 :

We'll talk in a few years again, ok? ATM, he has as many penalties as schumi had after the same amount of years in F1...

I didnt say, he overtook in red flag, that was an ironic pointing to the second vid, where schumacher WASNT pushing at all, but passed them slowly, and Alonso clearly slowed down a lot for whatever reason... But hey, no need to argue with you, Alonso is clean and fair, doesnt braketest (what was that with coulthard in and) and is the fairest and nicest racer ever. That's also the reason, why he starts whining and blaming the FIA for blown up engines... dream on, I enjoy meanwhile the last championship of the best racer of all times.

Quote from Vykos69 :

Wake up, he is as fair, as Schumi is. And that is a real red flag overtake with "Full" speed, while Alonso was driving as fast as possible:

So you don't say that Alonso passed under a red flag...

If Schumacher had only passed Alonso then yes there would be a possibility of him playing games. But to come flying up behind 2 other cars and then just drive right around the outside of the whole 3 is breaking the rules, full stop. Alonso only slowed down when Schumacher was on his way passing the BMW rookie who seemed to understand the rules better than the old man. So far you've yet to justify how Alonso planned this all out, to actually get Schumacher onto the tail of the group, did he telepathically tell Schumacher to overtake?

Coulthard at nürburgring ? What are you on about? Back in Coulthards day at McLaren? Coulthard ****ed up, and I'd be the first to defend Coulthard. He is the driver I support, hell I don't even support Alonso, I just admire him for what he is achieving at such a young age.

LOL don't make me laugh, he never blamed the FIA for a blown engine. He merely stated that he was running in the dirty air a lot more than he would have had he started where he wanted, and he was running it high revs all the way. Renault have said the engine blowing is part of the sport, it's the interfering which isn't.

This year is just going more and more to a fixed championship, when I say that I mean in the way to spice it up. Make it close right down to the wire. The FIA trying to spice it up because so far they've left most teams and drivers puzzled at the ban of the mass damper system and the penalty Alonso took. Then add on the yellow flag `pass` from Hungary which is just illepall

Keiran

Quote :

You obviously don't watch F1 very closely, if at all.

Oh I do. I just happen to have more than a selective perception.

Alonso braketested Dornboos, period. There is no justification for it, period. No, being held up is not a reason you may braketest someone for. Even less so in a situation like he did it in. You blast MS for braketesting Montoya (I suppose you mean Monaco 2004), but you accept Alonso doing it?

Alonso: The biggest whiner F1 has ever seen. A new record, one that even Schumi can't take away from him.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Alonso: The biggest whiner F1 has ever seen. A new record, one that even Schumi can't take away from him.

I'd like to think that was posted to elicit a response rather than because it's your real opinion. All Alonso has said is that Schumi is the least sporting driver ever. I'm struggling to think of many other drivers who have deliberately taken their rivals out of a race, been black flagged (and then banned) for ignoring a stop-go penalty, been disqualified from an entire championship for unsportsmanlike behaviour AND been penalised for deliberately sabotaging a qualifying session. Alonso was stating fact, not some fanciful idea he has in his head because he's angry.

In any case, you've forgotten Nigel "Nelson's got a faster car than me" Mansell and Rubens "How dare you try to overtake on the last lap" Barrichello.

Quote from F1racing.net :

"Michael is the most unsporting driver F1 has ever seen," Alonso told Spanish radio station Marca.

"Zidane retired with more glory than Schumacher," he added.

The Spaniard did, however, admit how much he enjoyed the opportunity to race against the seven-time Worl Champion.

"That doesn't mean he hasn't been the best driver, and fighting against him has been an honour and a pleasure," Alonso said.

Alonso has a two point lead over Schumacher with only three races to go this season but disagrees with his Team Principal Flavio Briatore that a run of decisions against the Renault team has gifted Schumacher the drivers' title.

"I don't agree with Flavio. They haven't given the title to Schumacher already. It's true there have been a lot of decisions against some and in favour of other but that's it."

Alonso said enough nice things about Schumacher there in that very same interview...

Were these already here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaqWSloTpgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nGGHFFiUFk

Quote from keiran :

I can find loads of videos of Schumacher playing dirty games and yet some how the driver you claim to be just as ruthless has none?

Keiran

ok..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjSFWc9jpFg

illepall

Take your tongue out of his ass, he has toilet roll at home.

Quote from DejaVu :

ok..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjSFWc9jpFg

illepall

Take your tongue out of his ass, he has toilet roll at home.

OK, maybe not the nicest move. But I wouldn't say he intended to have DC off the track. He didn't even chop, he stayed on his line and braked earlier than DC had expected. And you had to go back 3 or 4 years to find 1 unfair move.

Quote from keiran :

LOL don't make me laugh, he never blamed the FIA for a blown engine. He merely stated that he was running in the dirty air a lot more than he would have had he started where he wanted, and he was running it high revs all the way. Renault have said the engine blowing is part of the sport, it's the interfering which isn't.

Sure, he blamed the FIA for that blown engine. Beside the fact, that he would have run even higher RPMs all the race, if started from 5th place, and still not matching the speed of the two winners there. But he clearly said: From starting position 5, I would have won it. illepall A little reality lost? His fastest race-laptime was more than half a sec slower than Michaels and Kimis. I dont like him, he's the one, who behaves childish and whiny, and his interview in spanish radio yesterday was another clear point to show that again. Why on earth is he pointing towards MS, that he's the most unfair racer? It's Kindergarten-play what he does there, and he will pay for that. I guess his title last year will be the first for quite a while...

Quote from Vykos69 :

I guess his title last year will be the first for quite a while...

Forever actually - it was his first and even if he gets another one it will still be his first, because well, it was his first... :P

To Britons: Does this classify as a Murrayism?

i like alonso.. but i wish he had more composure when things arent going his way for whatever reason. His frustration is understandable. but i just wish he'd carry himself with a bit more dignaty, you know? he seems to be quite nice to the press from what i've seen

Quote from Gabkicks :

i like alonso.. but i wish he had more composure when things arent going his way for whatever reason. His frustration is understandable. but i just wish he'd carry himself with a bit more dignaty, you know? he seems to be quite nice to the press from what i've seen

I wish he'd just back what he says and would take up Rossi's challenge.

Especially now that he don't consider F1 a sport any longer and the season will be ending soonish perhaps he has time to spare after it (since that was his initial excuse for not taking up the challenge).

But somehow I don't see him doing much in a rally car or on a motorbike to be honest.

Quote from deggis :

Were these already here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaqWSloTpgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nGGHFFiUFk

No, neither were these:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=A-PdJfxs3L8&
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qXPvE2-FgVY

All classics of "purposeful unsportsmanlike behaviour" or "racing incidents" or "unfortunate judgement" depending on viewpoint... however, they're both scenes we see in LFS races all too often :P (replace the running-to-opponent's-car-and-waving-finger with "n00b!!!!", etc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nGGHFFiUFk

OMFG sschumacher tried to wreck me!!!

J VILLENEUVE voted to ban Schumacher press 1 to vote 1/22

Quote from Gabkicks :

OMFG sschumacher tried to wreck me!!!
J VILLENEUVE voted to ban Schumacher press 1 to vote 1/22

FIA completed the vote.
Schumacher banned

Quote :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaqWSloTpgo

Everytime I watch this one the sheer blatancy of the whole move makes my skin crawl. There are two reasons for disqualifying Schumacher in one accident, but what can the stewards have done given it was the last race and Schumacher was ahead on points? The 'right' penalty would have been to dock two championship points, but it would have been an awkward precedent. It's also I think the seminal moment of Schumachers career, it symbolises perfectly how he drove his entire carear: Competetively; and totally unsporting.

The whole Alonso debate I think is mostly a sign of the guys brilliance, the fact that he is polarising views is simply because he is winning and winning well. The difference between Alonso and Schumacher for me is twofold, firstly he has conducted himself in a more sporting manner, he's had plenty of chances to wrap up the championship earlier in the season with a few mutual retirements but chose not too - which isn't something you would expect of Schumacher.

Secondly, and this isn't Schumachers fault but is a major contibuting factor to why I dont like him, throughout the Germans career he's had the favour of the stewards who've been star struck by the mega stars arrival at their home grand prix and made a lot of bad calls, and even now the new steward who's job it was to end this is still failing to pull it off, and Ferrari are devious as ever in finding other ways to effect circumstances to favour them (new tarmac at Monza etc), the son of an Italian ex-pat as the 'foreign' steward or whatever that scandal was about (I havn't seen full details).

Quote from Becky Rose :

Everytime I watch this one the sheer blatancy of the whole move makes my skin crawl.

Again there are atleast three ways of looking at it:
1. he purposely tried to crash Hill out (unsporting & illegal)
2. he purposely tried to cut Hill off (unsporting)
3. he didn't know Hill was there and went for the turn-in, which means he didn't look or was too pre-occupied with getting back in track (dangerous)

This is without national bias (I'm neither British or German) and without being a fan of either - my last real f1 idol cracked his skull on a wall (or got a suspension arm stuck in his face, or both... doesn't matter really) in Italy about a year after my 500cc idol broke is spine in a gravel trap in the same country a little further to the southeast (13 years to that date 8 days ago, btw).

There two disqualifyable incidents to look at:

Firstly the turn in, Hill had achieved significant overlap and therefor the corner was his.

Secondly Schumacher was recovering from an off-track excursion where he struck a wall, he had not fully returned to racing line+speed and therefor is required to be mindful of other cars.

There's only one explanation for the incident, and that's the final result of the championship.

I can't even see how a pro-Ferrari Schumacher fan can say anything other than it was Schumachers fault and clearly deliberate. Admire him for winning the championship if you will, but to argue a case for Schumacher on that incident is like saying America is a puppet regime of East Timor, it's just place senseless.

Quote from xaotik :

To Britons: Does this classify as a Murrayism?

Without doubt.

For a change a Schumacher-Hill-video without Schumacher closing the door for Hill or Hill diving into Schumacher's rear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTgLf3mNva0