That not-so-good simile aside, as you insist that driving LFS is like driving math equations one could also debate that driving rFactor feels like driving matrixes with numerical data (which, most of the time, came from mathematical equations and other times came from generalized ideas of "how it just might be"). Anyhow, this discussion is just going in circles.
Actually, they haven't heard of matricies as yet over there. Their tables are two-dimensional and then the results are edited by a bunch of (mostly linear) equations for a few concepts that don't quite work that way in the real world.
I sort of wondered about that after going through the Megane mod's files and comparing them with the Protoracer's files (two totally different cars, one is based on a real deal and the other is fantasy) - thought I was missing something.
Actually, he uses basic box blues scale minor pentatonic scales for most of his works. He played with a lot of heart and practiced constantly. There's not a lot of amazing music theory in his music at all.
Actually, he was not doing much more than standard blues stuff. He was hardly a monster of theory - even by his own admission.
Some of his chord work was advanced, especially towards the end of his career, but his solo's are rarely much more than B.B. King on acid and heavy distortion.
Thank you for your opinion, it has been noted and a representative of Tracks-R-Us will contact you as soon as possible, in the meantime please enjoy your racing simulator of preference.
Usually the fastest times are aquired if you STOP looking at the speedo or other dials and just drive by feel. Also you have to stop actively trying being fast, because that mostly ruins it. You have to drift off into "the zone", where everything just flows and it's almost like you have nerve endings in the tyres and can feel every inch of the road. In rF you only start feeling the bumps of the excel spreadsheet below ().
Your words here are futile, because your arguments aren't based on factual data or knowledge but pure "I think it should be different" opinion. If Todd comes here and says that the slip curves aren't correctly combined or that an essential part of tyre dynamics is missing, then he has our ear. But coming here and stating that rF > LFS because rF has more canned effects is getting you nowhere.
Besides that, your statements about the tracks are completely exaggerated and ridiculous.
Oh, looking at the vastly inaccurate speedo that's based on shaftspeed and doesn't really tell you much except an approximate speed (as it should be in real life)? - going out of a corner it can be as much as 10km/h inaccurate. I have been driving with no other HUD than speedo, gear and RPM for about a year now and barely look at them! I'm right up there with the fast guys too when I get time to put some practice in!
As for the wheel vibrations, what does the wheel in an ISI sim do if you lock the brakes?! As I recall, that's how you said it would like to be so you can feel what's going on...
There isn't as much grip in LFS as there should be? The normalised lateral slip tyre curve is about 30% higher at high slip angles in LFS than in rFactor! So again, we come to the issue of your abilities to drive a car at the limit and not go beyond... and when you do go beyond, to correct your mistake.
You're just digging yourself a hole of backward, inconsistent arguments here.
I appreciate your position on this and your attempts to describe why you prefer the FF in rFactor. I think I understand what you are saying. To you, those cues let you know how fast you are going and makes you feel more like you are in a real race car.
However, I am just the opposite. The vibrations and spasms that rFactor generates with the wheel are distracting, counter productive, and I seriously think it will damage your wheel over time. The key point is that it masks what the car is doing. I agree that it would be nice to feel the vibrations and G-loads that a car produces, but doing it through the steering wheel only is not going to work very well. It just comes off as feeling contrived.
In LFS I can feel the weight shift of the car when I feather it into a corner. This is essential to going fast in LFS, especially with the sports cars. I could never get this sensation from rFactor.
In rFactor, I could not find a way to setup a car with the proper amount of oversteer. The car would always understeer on turn entry, and grossly oversteers on exit. I can't explain this very well, and maybe it was just because of the lack of feel from the FF, but it felt wrong and unintuitive.
I do still check my speedometer when hotlapping with LFS. This is to check my exit and apex speeds to see if a certain line can carry more speed through a particular corner. Other than that, I don't really use the speedometer.
Fortunately, you can turn off most of the rumble stuff in rFactor so it does not get in the way so much, but it also seems to affect the rest of the FF options too, so it is really hard to tell what is going on. I also hate the way the screen bounces around and vibrates in rFactor. I had to turn that off as it gave my a bad headache. When you are in the car, and your body is undergoing the same accelerations as the car is, you don't see this kind of bouncing around. You only see bouncing like that when you are a non-stabilized camera mounted on the roll cage.
LFS is more technical than rFactor. It is more like a symphony or jaz than a power chorded metal song. This mirrors real life in that real racing is very technical. The first things you will be taught in driving school is the circle of grip and weight transfer. If you don't understand these things, you are not going to be fast. LFS forces you to understand these things. That is why I prefer LFS over rFactor.
It does is true that the LFS tracks are more detailed,but they simply bore me to death now. Its nice to have lots of layout for each tracks,but their all the same. I'd rather have 3 variations on Aston less and a total new track.
(slightly OT: not meaning to be an "ageist", but has anyone bothered to check the age groups of people that come up with generalized "LFS sucks" or "needs more interesting cars", "hasn't got bling bling" in comparison with people that actually take time to write a detailed opinion?)
The difference is, KiD is more then twice as old as you
But I think I'm stating the obvious, when I say that it's more the younger generation that prefers more bling bling, ofcourse with exceptions on both sides.
No, no - no fanboys please :P
I mean... well - look at Hallen's reply up there. He didn't just drop the fanboy bomb on Alan Dove. And this thread is littered with "hey - rF is better because I like that it goes shake-ah-shake-ah and vroom, LFS is dead" or "hey LFS is better because I like it and rF is for sissies" posts. Granted, the thread-starting post isn't much better but still; we sort of lack the capacity to stick to what is our opinion and what we state as The Truth.
How ungreatfull people can be, it really left you speachelles..
"Make some interesting cars"????!!!
C'mon you spoiled brats! Think before you write something please! I really hope devs aren't reading this, because they don't deserve this type of crap.
I can drive XFG at BL every day, and it still doesn't bores me for 2 years! Cars feels so much real and i think we even have more than enough!
The way i see LFS, is like i have a car in real life and there is a local circuit near by (say BLackwood) and me and my friends are gathering once a week to drive there, have fun, and come home. Then everyone tries to see what's wrong with their car, what they did wrong in that corner, and trying to be better every day. Then you come home and you can't sleep, thinking, "i could win that battle in last corner.. damn... i will get you next week you lucky bastard(refering to your friend) That's my LFS philosophy. To me.. we have plenty of cars and tracks, MORE than enough. I would just like to see physics getting improved, eye candy, and sound. That's it, a perfect Real life racing simulator. You wanna say to me that if you had this number of cars and tracks at your disposall in real life for free, that you woiuld be unsatisfied?? C'mon!!?? I wanna be perfect at some combo, don't want thousands of mods, tracks, cars, and not to give 10% of my capabilites for each one. I don't want that. I want to improve myself, my limit, at the sim where things feels right and once again big Thank you for the devs that continues to deliever me this!
ok, lemme rephrase that, for me LFS is perfect, i have always been looking for a sim that does "real" cars, and since i started Karting (nothing pro, just some rental stuff) i wanted something realistic, and LFS just... fits, yes i would like some real cars and tracks, but i dont want the mod overload, and i want them all good, but i am perfectly happy with the current cars (FXO makes me weak at the knees), and there are some great tracks, i just hope i can get some better hardware (hmmm, dare i rip my pedals to bits and make a shifter? )
Jakg, you make yourself sound silly. This is the attitude that has gotten sims at RSC to their state - ZOMG ITS PERFECT AND NOTHING CAN BE IMPROVED!
Who honestly cares about the fact that LFS looks at the button's position on the screen and makes the sound accordingly? Yes, its one of those things that you wouldn't even think of if it wasn't there, but does it honestly make LFS better than rFactor?
lots of things can be improved (graphics and sound especially!), and more tracks (environments, not another AS layout), and im sure that there WILL be better sims, but right now (for me at least) LFS is the best
"Perfect" is a much too easily used word, so instead of continuing this argument any further, cannot we simply settle on "LFS, even though there is still lots to be improved on it, is the best online driving simulator currently available"?
I think I made my point, Jakg, even though you tried to cover it up a bit in your last post. You sound like a fanboy, so if you're gonna post in Sim A vs LFS threads, avoid use of the word perfect (because no racing sim will ever be perfect in any way) and make sure that what you post is significant to the thread, because it looks like you're just doing it for post count otherwise.
This is basically a 'See how rowed up LFS and rF people can get' thread. As most (if not all) the posts are arguing (quite pointlessly) about one another getting no-where, nothing is going to be changed by these long posts apart from the loading time on peoples browsers.
LFS is way way way off from being perfect. Ask Scawen - he'll agree.
But it's still MILES better than rFactor, GTRx etc.
Hell, I can feel the sidewall flex in LFS, but in rFactor I'm buggered if I can feel most of the car. Any car, either standard or one of the crappy mods.
OT: Has there actually been a good mod for rFactor. This question is directed at those who know that the karts, F3's and Meganes (all considered superlative by the rFactor crowd) were utter and total tosh. i.e. those who actually have any sense or driving experience.
Hmmm - I don't know about good but the Protoracer was sort of fun (it kept my attention atleast for more than what the others did), but then that's just me being a sucker for prototype class cars.
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I wanna be perfect at some combo, don't want thousands of mods, tracks, cars, and not to give 10% of my capabilites for each one. I don't want that. I want to improve myself, my limit, at the sim where things feels right and once again big Thank you for the devs that continues to deliever me this!
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