Done

wow, best thread I have read here... why not make it "sticky"?

one quick question: some of you faster guys mentioned that you coasted the car towards the apex... Some of the racing theory I have read (Speed Secrets etc.) always stressed that there should be no phase during the cornering where one isn't either braking or accelerating... I tried hard to get rid of coasting but that doesn't seem easy. Now as you guys are so incredible fast with it, it doesn't seem to slow you down??

Quote from Gretzkyyzerman :

one quick question: some of you faster guys mentioned that you coasted the car towards the apex...

When they say coast they are not implying you aren't decelerating or you are just going one speed... the fast guys come off the brakes at a speed higher than their desired apex speed and "coast" for a very short time just before the apex, which does two things, 1. it washes off the final bit of speed to get to the desired apex speed 2. it allows you to use more of the traction circle for turning to allow you to position the car best for acceleration. Also when they say coast, I think you will find they are picking up the throttle abit to balance the car also...

Quote from thisnameistaken :

Biggie... I am amazed - thank you so much
I'm beginning to think I just don't react fast enough to be able to make a consistent corner entry each time.

You shouldn't be reacting to the corner, you should be anticipating the corner. Looking further ahead is the best way to make it feel like you have much more time to prepare for an entry.

Here's another vote to make this thread a sticky. This is the best thread I've read on this forum. Really well written advice from people who KNOW what they are talking about.

Priceless...

[edit] And save those graphics Biggie made. Amazing...

Nice one, this has really helped me out!
Cheers

Result
I'll cancel the apology chocolates.

Nice work Kev, great thread & Some really fantastic advice from the man himself, biggie.

I'd nominate this thread for Sticky-lympics 2006 and request a printed hardcover edition!

well, 48 high should be possible, sofar i made 1:49,2 with new patch but before high 1:48. i havent really bothered much with this wr i just tried and made it, its nothing special. More of a challenge to me is LX6, i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6, thats what i did

Ah but alles look at your times in the LX6....want to make me cry, you better cool down for the LXCC

hehe, well untill then ill try to get faster, had better split by few tenths allready but screwed it illepall

Quote from Alles :

hehe, well untill then ill try to get faster, had better split by few tenths allready but screwed it illepall

Hope you don't mind me doing the dirty work for you
Dirty is the right word btw, that lap was certainly crap, 1:44 definitely possible. I've attached my set for anyone who wants to try it.

Quote from Alles :

More of a challenge to me is LX6, i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6, thats what i did

Well, uh, in my opinion it's the other way round. Being able to control the LX6 means you can control the more forgiving LX4. On the other hand, being able to control the small amount of power of the LX4 doesn't mean you have enough sensitivity in your right foot to control the untamed force of the LX6

Quote from biggie :

Well, uh, in my opinion it's the other way round. Being able to control the LX6 means you can control the more forgiving LX4. On the other hand, being able to control the small amount of power of the LX4 doesn't mean you have enough sensitivity in your right foot to control the untamed force of the LX6

I think if you reread his post, he's saying the exact same thing you are, once you master the LX6, the LX4 is easy. I agree with this, by the way.

Quote from 96 GTS :

I think if you reread his post, he's saying the exact same thing you are, once you master the LX6, the LX4 is easy. I agree with this, by the way.

Nono, he was saying you first need to be able to control the LX6 - and only when you can do that, you will have what it takes to master the LX4.

Quote from Alles :

i think if you want to go fast with lX4 then you need to 1st figure out LX6

I was trying to say that I have a different opinion on that, meaning that you can be fast in the LX4 without ever having mastered the "beast" LX6.

Of course this implies that once you succeed in controlling the LX6, you'll have an easy time controlling the LX4. Probably that's what we all agree on.

Quote from biggie :

Hope you don't mind me doing the dirty work for you
Dirty is the right word btw, that lap was certainly crap, 1:44 definitely possible. I've attached my set for anyone who wants to try it.

i dont mind atall , feel free to take all my wr's, i dont really care, i just made those times cause i had nothing else to do. I actually dont like to hotlap much anymore, but as i said didnt have much to do so i tried, didnt really try much to acheave them

and about LX6 to LX4 issue, i was refering to steering. If you can control lx6 under full throttle then you should control LX4 under full throttle. Sry i didnt make myself clear enough

Finally got around to look at it and try it out a bit (to my own regret, but still fun ).

First of all my overall impressions from the driving by Biggie and Kev:

Kev drives clean lines, not too much sliding, hardly countersteering and nose pointing to where he wants to go at that point. Biggie flicks the car in a sliding position where the nose is pointing not quite in the direction he is going, but the direction he wants to go in the second part of the corner and coming out of the corner.

When I drive LFS, I try to drive like Kev, clean lines, not much countersteering because that is for me the nicest/best way to drive. I have a problem with intuitive countersteering in a computer game, because I don't get the G's working on my body as I have in real life. My solution for this shortcoming in LFS is to drive as cleanly as possible. Rear wheel drive cars in LFS are, for me, terrible to drive because I seem to be unable to correct the car in the right way as I seem to be able to do naturally in e.g. a go-kart. I always seem to oversteer and overthrottle and overbrake in these situations if I even notice I'm already going sideways.

I looked at the driving by Biggie and I 'get' his driving and why he drives like that. After I stopped drooling at his amazing car control I just watched it again (and again) for the sheer beauty of it.
And of course I'm completely unable to even come close to that driving style. Yes, his nose does not seem to be pointing in the right direction and Kev's nose does. The small flick of the steering wheel to start the controlled slide for me results in all kinds of things except a controlled slide

I did however check the replays not only from cockpit view, but also from the follow cam view. Looking at both drives from that perspective the way Biggie drives looks a lot cleaner and better pointed in the travelling direction then Kev's drive. I thought that a bit strange since the in car view seems to suggest it a bit different imo.

Of course I tried a bit myself and was hopeless with the setup given by Biggie. I'm understeering going into a corner and oversteering when getting on the throttle with the setup provided by Biggie (LX4 Solong3).
Then there is the full throttle Biggie is able to get to really quickly sometimes. When I try to do the same thing and I have to steer even a little bit, I get into a spin immediately and am usually unable to catch it, even with full couterlock. Apparently the slides are already too far gone for me to be able to catch, before I notice them. This is my own personal problem of course, but one that keeps me from enjoying most of the RWD cars.

It seems I need to start getting my mechanics hat on and really work on a setup I feel comfortable with and that complements my own slow driving style (did I already mention my fastest non crashing lap was in the 1:57 )
It's probably going to be the only way I'm ever going to enjoy the RWD cars, by tuning out every bit of oversteer I can find

Ah well, this is just the way I see it and maybe I should stick to this same track/car just to start getting a feel for a RWD car. I mean, if I master 1 I should be OK to go in others too right

As Kev seems to be, err giving up, I am going to see what I can do too. I wouldn't expect much though yet. My PB is 1:52 at the moment I think. But that was only a few laps.

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up .

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs

Quote from N I K I :

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up .

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs

Rubbish, Flotch WR's are easy. He doesn't put half as much effort into them as he should.

Quote from N I K I :

Whell folks its not that easy, I have driving for 2 years but just now I have mine fist WR. U must know all about setups and about that car and track, so U must be verz y inteligent

Try to find some track where are U good and that there is no WR by, biggie or, Floch or anyone who have more then 10 WRs. Try to fint some track where someone have 1-10 WR and brake it dude, go for it Kev, dont give it up .

Im going to drive now for MHR rank, later will be for WRs

I did that, had something like 5-7 WRs at one point.....1-2 weeks later and they were still all gone

Quote from DaveWS :

As Kev seems to be, err giving up, I am going to see what I can do too. I wouldn't expect much though yet. My PB is 1:52 at the moment I think. But that was only a few laps.

God dammit. This is really tricky. My problem is that i'm so inconsistent. I can nail some corners, and then f**k up the one after it etc. The replay I have attached is pretty crap, but I absolutely NAILED the final sector. I think i'm quicker in the final sector than biggie was in fact. Actually come to think, best previous to last split was a 1:11.8 (yeah I know its crap), but added to my perfect final sector in this replay, and I would have beaten Kev. I'll try again tomorrow.

Biggie, If you don't mind me asking, how many laps on average of experience with a combo does it take for you to set a WR?

Problem whit WRs are that U have WR one some shit track/car. Cant do that, drive something where are 100+ racers have time and if U have WR there no one will take it, if you have WR on combo whit 5-10 racers someone faster will come and take it

Quote from DaveWS :

Biggie, If you don't mind me asking, how many laps on average of experience with a combo does it take for you to set a WR?

Hard to say really... it mostly depends on the setup and the popularity of the combo. I spend 50-80% of my time tweaking setups to my liking, so most of the time is spent not doing actual "hot laps" because I can't/don't want to focus on my driving yet.
I haven't spent much time on most of my current WRs though, maybe up to 20-60 minutes each. Given I have a good set from the start and the combo is not that popular, it sometimes takes me 15-20 minutes only (like FE1 XRT).
There are a few more pushed WRs on which I spent much more time. But it's hard to make a generalization.