Quote from mike20002 :

Do you bump them in turns too?

no - thats bloody dangerous illepall

Quote from Jakg :

no - thats bloody dangerous illepall

Quote from Jakg :

but only by going up the inside, and pushing their nose wide at the Apex, but nothing more as that IS (to me at least) wrecking

Quote from Jakg :

no - thats bloody dangerous illepall

I think some are getting maybe getting the wrong idea, i agree with you here, just think the "push" word is a little to aggresive. Should more be like line the backmarker up and into the corner you have enough car alongside to take the inside line, without causing contact, so the other driver takes the wider line and hence you make a clean fast pass

I'll try a pass a blue-flagger cleanly, if he blocks at all, i give them a bump up the exhaust (only on the straight - usually at the end so they run wide ) but i'll never intentionally ram them off the road.

If a backmarker isn't much slower and hence its more difficult to get past, i find it a challenge to get infront.

I adhere to all the make a move once driving defensive and car overlapping for right of way and keeping it clean. So i'l try get past and if something happens end of the race i'l give him the friendly reminder of the difference between driving defensive and blocking

Being a professional backmarker myself I am always courteous with my colleagues.

Quote from Jakg :

only by going up the inside, and pushing their nose wide at the Apex, but nothing more as that IS (to me at least) wrecking

Bumps and nerfs are n00bish events. Either a n00b, or driving in a n00bish way (lots of reasons.. new setup, new car, new track..).

Once you enter into an accident - even a bump or a nerf, you relinquish all control of the outcome. If you enter into that accident intentionally, it's wrecking. Patience doesn't feature in the "good excuses" list.

there is no proof it was me!!!11!1111etc.

i got to admit it isn´t so unusual that a backmarker is hit by me.
in most cases i don´t even want to touch them, but there are some people out there who do have problems to handle the car.
so it happens that right in the moment you want to overtake them, i tend to do that close, these guys just change their line, creating some "smaller" problems
fortunately i don´t have problems with backmarkers that often. but i think i can remember of an incident last night, racing on the same server as you...

The sum of the poll (this far...):
Most of the racers try not to drive other racers off track, even if they can be passed themselves.
Some think its ok to push slower drivers off track.

How to: (this is how I do, Im not an aggressive racer, and I loose allot but not always... but Im having really fun when racing...)
I try to keep track of racers around me.
Someone near that is much faster than me? =
Ill let him pass, show him that I want him to pass, place my car on a side of the track.
I don't brake!
Ill let go off the throttle and slam it to bottom when he has passed me, then Ill have a go at him.
Ill try to keep up close behind him, maybe I can make him stressed and he will end up making a mistake in next corner.
And Ill don't be too close if I don't know 100% where his breakpoints are!

Someone approaching me fast? = I try to think where he will get up behind me, and let him pass as above.
Someone wiggling in front of me? = Ill be careful and try passing with speed in straights.
Someone making unexpected brakes, taking weird lines, missing apex etc. = Ill be careful and try passing with speed in straights.

I keep distance, learn where the slower driver is slower, check where I can make my move clean!
If someone is drafting really close in curves, I let him pass as soon as possible, even if I don't get blue flag else the risk is that we both end up eating grass.
And this will prevent him to bump me out in a corner.

I won't go deep into BLUE flag I think there is someone else who can explain it better than me.
But be careful to not takeout the car behind, let him pass as soon as possible, don't brake or wiggle around on the track.
Show him clearly you intentions.

T1 wait and see what happens, there is a big chance that there will be a pileup in T1 and T2 after start.
Let them spin off and you can easily just pass them with idle throttle...

regards Mike

Quote from cmckowen :

I think some are getting maybe getting the wrong idea, i agree with you here, just think the "push" word is a little to aggresive. Should more be like line the backmarker up and into the corner you have enough car alongside to take the inside line, without causing contact, so the other driver takes the wider line and hence you make a clean fast pass

well what i said was that IRL in Karting i DO nudge people if they just aren't yeilding, as at those speeds it isn't dangerous

In LFS is a noob wasn't yeilding and driving dangerously, and slowing me down a lot then i would nudge their nose wide at the apex so i could slip through, then say "Sorry"!

Mahlzeit.....

Aren't we all nice drivers? No one would ever do such things.....but then again.....it happens to every single one of us.....don't say it does not

Seriously I very, very rarely met an, so called, 'Alien' that goes around wrecking like described in the first post. And guys that do are usually well known for their 'racing-incompetence'.....

Just try to remember that everyone, and that of course even includes all those Aliens, 'F**KS UP' every now and then.

Will I shoot a backmarker on purpose? Nope.....never did, never will.....I give them a little hug (never trying to gain an advantage by this though) if they really block me bad, but forcing them off track or into a wall is not my cup of tea......but at the same time I have been into accidents that had an unfortunate outcome for my opponent and if watched from the outside must have looked as if I just wanted to shoot him.....but I did not.....I just made a mistake.....

Racing between experienced racers sometimes incorporates even more little nudges than beginner's racin' and still stays on the fair side.....and this is part of what I love about LFS.....a 10 lap thriller of door-to-door action in little hatchbacks, touching your opponent and being touched by your opponent in every second corner just to read the 'Lord, now THAT was fun!' chat messages after the race.....

Wrecking is BAD.....'Touchy'-Racing can be great, though

CU, Sebastian

Quote from mike20002 :

If someone is drafting really close in curves, I let him pass as soon as possible, even if I don't get blue flag else the risk is that we both end up eating grass.
And this will prevent him to bump me out in a corner.

id rather say try keep the guy behind, fight for position. When driving under pressure you quite often end up with 2 results, either you making a mistake and giving the position away hence you lost nothing. Or you can exceed your known driving skills and walk awat with a new pb and possibly a race win. LFS is about racing hard rather than letting faster people by

Quote from Jakg :

In LFS is a noob wasn't yeilding and driving dangerously, and slowing me down a lot then i would nudge their nose wide at the apex so i could slip through, then say "Sorry"!

Well then i dont agree, I see no need to push a car out the way. If they slow you down alot then im sure you should be able to make a pass by getting the right drive and line. Taking the pushing attitude and then saying sorry seems a little bit of childish behaviour in a race imho.

Quote from Biohazard :

there is no proof it was me!!!11!1111etc.

i got to admit it isn´t so unusual that a backmarker is hit by me.
in most cases i don´t even want to touch them, but there are some people out there who do have problems to handle the car.
so it happens that right in the moment you want to overtake them, i tend to do that close, these guys just change their line, creating some "smaller" problems
fortunately i don´t have problems with backmarkers that often. but i think i can remember of an incident last night, racing on the same server as you...

Not pointing any fingers at anyone, could have been you, could have been ME or anyone else...
I must say that in most servers where I have been racing it's clean and nice racing even on them last night...
Just wanted to check the overall thinking...

/Mike

Quote from cmckowen :

id rather say try keep the guy behind, fight for position. When driving under pressure you quite often end up with 2 results, either you making a mistake and giving the position away hence you lost nothing. Or you can exceed your known driving skills and walk awat with a new pb and possibly a race win. LFS is about racing hard rather than letting faster people by
.

That is a good tip, but Im not that good...
What happens to me sometimes, is that I get the fast guy on my inside or outside and then Im in trouble keeping a line trough the corner without taking him or me out...

Quote from cmckowen :

id rather say try keep the guy behind, fight for position. When driving under pressure you quite often end up with 2 results, either you making a mistake and giving the position away hence you lost nothing. Or you can exceed your known driving skills and walk awat with a new pb and possibly a race win. LFS is about racing hard rather than letting faster people by

Fully agree with that , I race alot against cmckowen and most of the times he's faster , if I do however find myself in front of him in a race I WILL fight tooth and nail to keep my position , he knows that by now , and we respect each other for that . If I get a blue flag however I will move out of the way as soon as it's safe to do so

Yup, I also fight tooth and nail to keep any place that I have, as people who have raced behind me will know, IMO, thats part of the whole racing experiance, it would be boring if you just yeilded everytime someone was behind you, and I make it as hard as possible for them to pass.

Blue flagging is a little different as it means the slower driver is (at least) a lap behind.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Yup, I also fight tooth and nail to keep any place that I have, as people who have raced behind me will know, IMO, thats part of the whole racing experiance, it would be boring if you just yeilded everytime someone was behind you, and I make it as hard as possible for them to pass.

Blue flagging is a little different as it means the slower driver is (at least) a lap behind.

Dan,

Ok, so even if you are 2-3+ seconds slower on a minute lap you fight him?
I just want to know where to fight and where to let go...
Ofcourse i won't leave open door to someone whos only 0.5 seconds faster...

I really don't mind how people deal with it as long as they don't get into a MASSIVE bitching session which results in thousands of messages and distracting comments. I don't like having to block messages but lately I've had to a few times cos of people arguing over one mistake for ages, even though it was like 6 races ago.

Yup, if I am not a lap down, and fighting for places I'll make that bugger work for the place, even if I am 2-3 seconds down I'll make it as hard as possible for them.

Its my place, and I am entitled to fight for it, being blue flagged is something completely different.

Dan,

Quote from danowat :

Yup, if I am not a lap down, and fighting for places I'll make that bugger work for the place, even if I am 2-3 seconds down I'll make it as hard as possible for them.

Its my place, and I am entitled to fight for it, being blue flagged is something completely different.

Dan,

Thanks, now you all have work harder to pass me!

I try to pass clean, but if he doesnt get outta my way and respect the blue flag.... BOOM!! I knock him into the wall.

Usually I am the one BEING lapped. LMAO, except lately ive stayed on the lead lap.

I still drive a lot on demo servers so I get plenty of opportunities to "bump the noob", but very rarely do I do such on purpose. I do occasionally choose not to take evasive action. When a noob joins midrace and drives out of the pits into T1, directly to my line without paying any attention I keep my line and drive into the side of his car, pushing him wide. If a driver consistenly doesn't obey the blue flag, i.e. driving defensively, I might give a slight tap in the bum in a slow corner and make the pass.

My definition of "noob" is a person who is clueless or does not put in a sufficient quantity of effort in to not be dangerous. I never, ever bump, brake test etc. a newbie who is just slow and/or not confident in driving.

Quote from frokki :

...I could imagine forcing some noobs, cleanly and by cornering rules, into grass to teach them a lesson, if they aren't willing to respect blue flags at all.

Any move that involves forcing someone onto the grass is by definition not clean, and is breaking at least one rule out of any set of reasonable cornering rules.
If you are overtaking, the simplest and most basic rule is that it is your responsibility as aggressor to ensure that both of you get through the corner safely.... If the other guy ends up on the grass because of your overtaking move, then it's your fault, and the move was dirty not clean.
The only way to fairly get him onto the grass is to pressure him until he screws up and slides wide - no contact required

Now, I'm not saying that the red mist doesn't descend even on the best of us occasionally, just don't kid yourself that this can ever be a 'clean' move.

cheers

Col

Ah, there is not anything fun at overtaking if it is done by pushing poor fellow racer to grass or wall, whole thrill of online racing comes from overtaking, proper tactic, making fake attempts letting braking late or braking early, quite often I find that other driver that I press is driving out without me even touching him, that is odd

I think that winning is quite meaningless for me, it is all about attack and defence, success or loss, no matter I enjoy what I do. Sometimes it takes few laps to adjust to other drivers style, only by then I start overtaking if other driver is anywhere near my times, it is not the pray, it is all about hunting

I'm not very fast driver and I make mistakes quite a lot, but always I do my best to not hit others, wish to see others do this too.