robgo:
the most drivers who get lapped havn't much experience, this means the react mostly not right or misjudge the situation and cause an eccident. Therefore I say, just keep the line, go your normal speed and I will do what is needed. They might go a bit to the outside of the corner so that I can pass them inside. Thats all.

PS: 6 meters aren't much with 250km/h

Quote from robgo :

nihil>
6 meters is not a big distance, especially in that fast corner, where you have to count with much dirt air and especially if you can do only 1.45.x.

Not sure what your point is there - seem to be repeating what I was saying... six metres is pretty late for a blue flag.

nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.

tomylee>
If somebody moves to the right before a left hand turn and slows down there, and lets the car behind him to pass before the turn, it can't be wrong. Otherwise in a series of short races not experienced drivers doesn't get more blue flag, then experienced drivers.

Quote from robgo :

nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.

Yeah - that's the problem with abstract situations like the one you suggest. Like I say, I don't think the situation would arise, because I would have seen both the car and the blue flag before he was six metres from my rear end and long before the corner came up.

At six metres away, the other driver would already have decided what he was going to do - either take the pass or wait, so the decision is pretty much made for me...

This is a very tipical situation according to my statisctics. ok, maybe 6 meters a bit too short, maybe 10 meters would have been better, because this corener is after a very long straight.

I use often the slipstream oft those cars to get some extra speed so I don't like when they move.
What I did experience is that the best it is when they all keep the line and I know already what to do.
Anyway, the blue flag car has either not much experience and will make something wrong or the other driver is doing a race and fighting for a postition so he should not slow down for me. If I'm faster I will bring myself in posotion that I can catch him before or after the staight.
Racing is not thaaaaaat hard so don't make a science out of it.

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".

For backmarkers about to be lapped: if you think you should fight with the lapping car you then are on another planet entirely. You would be disqualified in real life. If you think he should work his way past you without you yielding to him then you are out of your mind. You would be disqualified in real life.

Both parties will often have to make a small compromise and that is the reality of it, it is sometimes unavoidable. The car being lapped should make no sudden or unpredictable moves (especially if the lapping car is close to you) and should simply allow the lapper to overtake at the earliest sensible opportunity. Yes, you must allow him/her to go through. If you join mid-race then you aren't even in the contest in the first place, don't fight.

Tommylee>
i added to my initial post today: The car behind you has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight.

Quote from Gunn :

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".

For backmarkers about to be lapped: if you think you should fight with the lapping car you then are on another planet entirely. You would be disqualified in real life. If you think he should work his way past you without you yielding to him then you are out of your mind. You would be disqualified in real life.

Both parties will often have to make a small compromise and that is the reality of it, it is sometimes unavoidable. The car being lapped should make no sudden or unpredictable moves (especially if the lapping car is close to you) and should simply allow the lapper to overtake at the earliest sensible opportunity. Yes, you must allow him/her to go through. If you join mid-race then you aren't even in the contest in the first place, don't fight.

Quote from robgo :

Tommylee>
i added to my initial post today: The car behind you has no time for getting into your slipstream, and pass you in the straight.

But he can pass after the corner, what is the problem to wait this corner? Like Gunn saidm it's not that other cars have to jump away. Of course the lapped car should not be damn slow.

Quote from Gunn :

It takes just a quick moment to travel 50 metres. Moving off your line at that point would be insane. The blue flag does not give the lapping car right of way as soon as they are in an overtaking position. Both cars need to use some common sense. Negotiating backmarkers is a part of racing. To expect people to jump out of your way on command is just wrong. To expect to not have your possible PB interupted is just naive. The blue flag does not mean "clear the track, here I come!".

I added to my initial post today, that the turn is 300 meters away, so you have time to move away and let the person behind to pass. Also he has no time to overtake you before the turn. And this little poll was not about what do you expect if a lapped car is in front of you. But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).

Quote from tomylee :

But he can pass after the corner, what is the problem to wait this corner? Like Gunn saidm it's not that other cars have to jump away. Of course the lapped car should not be damn slow.

The problem is that the car behind you will lose time because of you. And you were already out of race in a 10 laps race.

Quote from robgo :

I added to my initial post today, that the turn is 300 meters away, so you have time to move away and let the person behind to pass. Also he has no time to overtake you before the turn. And this little poll was not about what do you expect if a lapped car is in front of you. But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).

I was responding to this:

Quote from robgo :

nihil>
If you are about 50 meters before the turn, and the car is 6 meters behind you, you would better let him pass before the corner. That's what i wanted to say.

Quote from robgo :

But yes, in a short race like this i expect them to let me pass immidiatly. If they don't i won't hit them or anyting like that, i never did so, not intenionally. But if it happens when i am first and the second is one second behind from me, i will probably give him a kick vote, since that person was totally out of the race already(remember, short race).

I think its already been stated what the blue flag means many times in this thread and your attitude is quite contrary to its spirit. Your example lacks too many details for anyone to respond in the way you want them too. And that is part of the problem, you are only asking the question to proselytise for your own point of view.

The lapped car may not be in your race, but may still be racing for a late position. No, he should not unnecessarily obstruct your progress and no, you should not expect him to jump at your command.

Wasn't it that you should let the car behind pass at the first safe point? 300 meters before a turn is safe. In addition it's safer then letting him pass in a turn.

And yes, he should allow you to pass at the first safest opportunity. Like Tomylee says, its not rocket science.

Quote from nihil :

Your example lacks too many details for anyone to respond in the way you want them too. And that is part of the problem, you are only asking the question to proselytise for your own point of view.

I think it is exact enough now. and yes, i did it for that reason. Is it bad?

Quote from nihil :

The lapped car may not be in your race, but may still be racing for a late position.

I think it's about 1% possibility thath he is in race for a late postion. Don't count cases when somebody is 20 mp before him and he is chasing him.

Quote from nihil :

No, he should not unnecessarily obstruct your progress and no, you should not expect him to jump at your command.

Command? I don't spam with blue flag messeges either. I would be just happy if he didn't make the leaders or people who are in close racing to slow down.

Quote from robgo :

I would be just happy if he didn't make the leaders or people who are in close racing to slow down.

Do corners get in your way too?

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist - its a slow day at work and I'm letting this turn into a chat forum. Sorry again, I'm going to let it go after this post. Promise.

But is it so hard to accept that sometimes you might have to slow down?

Robgo, in your situation that you describe, it is too late to move over and let him by. You would be converging together at the apex, thus getting in the leader's way. You would be forcing the lead car to take a different line than the race line at the corner. He would have to take the corner wide, when it should be you taking the corner wide to let the other car through.

The only time you should be moving offline like that would be with plenty of distance left between you and the lead car so he could see your intentions and plenty back towards the beginning of the straight. If the lead car is only 6 meters behind, no matter where on the track, then that is the time the lead is planning and getting ready to execute how he is going to pass you. If it was me 6 meters behind you in that situation then I would have to take evasive manuvers not to crash us as you would definitely be diving into my prepared and planned path.

In normal blue flag race circumstances, just hold your line. You will see when the lead car attempts to make the pass and when he does, lift off the throttle to make it easy. Then both of you continue on your way with minimal impact to the race or to lap times.

In midjoin blue flag circumstances, the best is not to let that happen in the first place. Sit in the garage and wait for a break on the map to allow you to lap by yourself. If someone catches you on the track, you have plenty of warning to pull off line and SLOW DOWN to allow those in the race to pass through. I'm not going to say you have no business being out on the track with other racers. I have no problem with someone joining in and getting some practice/warmup laps. But you have to have no involvement in the race, including being on the race line or in a corner when racers are on your bumper. If you have to slow down way off line on a straight when you first see blue flag, but don't see the car yet in your mirror, then so be it. That is what you have to do because you are not a part of the race. Those racing shouldn't have to pass you, you should make like you are not even there.

Backmarkers are indeed a part of racing. It's what makes racing, racing. Backmarkers can be used effectively in a race with another car if everyone follows rules and plays fair. Midrace joiners are NOT a part of racing and should make the attempt to be invisible to others who are a part of the race, including moving off onto the grass and shift-S'ing into the pits before the blue flaggers arrive.

Quote from mrodgers :

If you have to slow down way off line on a straight when you first see blue flag, but don't see the car yet in your mirror, then so be it. That is what you have to do because you are not a part of the race. Those racing shouldn't have to pass you, you should make like you are not even there.

I agree with everything you say, except this part.
I'd rather they keep going until they can clearly see the car coming up behind and can judge its speed. If they have no clue where a car is, chances are they'll slow down enough only to get in the way because they arrived at the turn doin 2mph just as you wanna turn in. If they slow down too much they're bound to become moving chicanes for others. Passing is easier when they are going somewhat slower, not 100 mph slower. Gives you more time to react and prepare for them.