Hi,

I bought the game some days ago and I have driven almost exclusivly the gti on blackwood because I hardly understand how people get lap times of 1:31...
I played much, in fact a lot more than I actually wanted, but I'm so freakin slow, that I don't dare going online.

I have read the setup stuff, but when I try to edit the setup, it gets even worse ! So I downloaded some setups of 1:31.. people and watched their replays. I was a bit faster then, but still more than 5 seconds behind though I thought, that I did everything like them and feel like I am driving at the limit. My best lap now is 1:36:20, but mostly I have like 1:37...

I see that I have lower speed in some corners (well, all corners...), but when I try to go the same speed as those people, the car will understeer and crash with the same setup !
What am I doing wrong, 5 seconds is so much and I'm so frustrated !

Well, not everyone is fast the first time they play this game.... the learning curve is steep for most people. Don't worry about being slow, you're not the only one out there . I was just as slow as you when I started to play this game... but I eventually reached my peak level months later. It just takes time. I'm no GTi driver, but I know that the GTi at BL is one of the most popular combinations, lots of people get fast times. (Heh I haven't lapped there yet in S2, I still have my S1 pb's)

What controller are you using? (You need to use a wheel and pedals to be fast)

And also, post a replay of your driving so we can see it. We could analyze it and tell you what you're doing wrong. You probably just need some pointers .

Dont worry about the Alien times that some drivers post, I have been driving LFS for many years, and the best I can muster in the XFG at BLGP is 1'33:40, and only then with MASSIVE amounts of practice, 1:36 isnt a bad time, you will get faster in time.
Smoothness with the steering is a big help, infact, smoothness on all controls, as I find when I am trying to drive fast I actually get the opposite, where as when I am relaxing and driving smoothly I get faster.

Dan.

dont TRY to go fast, just focus on being smooth, and play on all different tracks and cars, and speed shall come, my young apprentice!

And did you try to get a decent setup from setupfield? The standard-setup is plain horrible.

Vain

Stick at it, Smooth driving really is the key, don't try to force it, I'd be happy to get consistent sub-1.36 laps in the XFG at Blackwood. Smooth, and consistent is the key. And have fun!

And don't allow yourself to get put off by these super fast alien racers, some great fun to be had on-line. Thats what the LFS community is all about.

Ardent, don't worry about going online even if you're 5 seconds slower than WR. I myself am at least 5 seconds slower than the WR in each track/car, but I can still have competetive races. There are other slow ppl too.

The line, throttle and braking control are all important. Subtle differences in throttle, braking points, braking pressure, and entry point make such a huge difference that you can hardly beleive it. I can run a high 1:32 on Blackwood with consistent low to mid 1:33's, but that comes with a ton of practice. I have over 17k online miles, and I have more than that off-line. I must have raced over 1000 laps on Blackwood (or so it feels), so you can't expect to be turning 1:31's in a few days.

Sets are important, but you need to find a set that feels good to you, and stick with it. If you change sets a lot, you will never adjust and you will continue to struggle.

You are understeering when you try to go faster into turns like the WR guys do because you're not using the same turn-in point, throttle or braking as the WR guys are. It could be the set if it is really bad, but I guarantee you it is mostly your technique. Don't take that as a dis, it just the way it is. We are all in hunt of the perfect lap, most of us non aliens never quite get there. I drove the default setup to a low 1:34 when I thought I had grabbed a set sent by my teammate. Shoot for getting consistent low 1:35's. You will be quite competitive at that speed on a lot of servers and in the lower pools of several leagues.
Look at the hotlap charts. How many drivers do you see there with 1:31's? Not that many when you compare it to how many people own LFS. That is because IT IS HARD TO DO. Don't get discouraged, you are doing fine. Keep at it.

Oh, and one more point. Blackwood is EVIL. It is evil because it is the one track every single driver has spent the most time on. It has been analyzed to death. People race it to death. Some guys can drive it with their eyes closed. The top hotlaps are insane.

[EDIT] WOW, there were no replies to your post when I started this message. I have got to learn to type faster! Good work guys![/Edit]

well if you're talking about BL1 in the GTi (which you probably do by looking at the mentioned times) i have to say that i was 1:38+ a few days ago, although in the first sector, i didn't lose much, so i tried other lines (close to the ones in the replays) and suddenly the times dropped rapidly. yesterday i drove a low 1:35 with a race setup and around 35% fuel left in the tank, so even with limited talent like mine sure is, you can still manage to find a few seconds

try out where exactly the car starts to drift/oversteer in the last 3 or 4 cornners and stabilize it by using a little more throttle - since its a FWD, you can 'pull' it out of a slight drift by accelerating

if you know when you reach the point just before it starts to oversteer, try to find the ideal line and you'll see your exit speeds rising by 5-10 km/h

with such a powerless car as the GTi, exit speed is very important and makes or breaks a good laptime

It's all about practice and experience. When you think you're "stuck" on one track / car, move to the next and hav fun there, just take a break. And when you get back, you'll be faster, it just comes.
It took me month to get into the 1:36 in S1 days and never I thought that I could go faster then a 1:37... (In the end I did a 1:35:5 )

Just keep trying

3j

I think that comparing your performance to WR times isn't necessarily the best way to go. 1:31s were driven by people who have been practising at it for absolutely ages and ages, they set up everything for just that one single perfect lap. It's not an ideal way to go about it if you want to do several laps..

Also, as it has been often mentioned, the fastest setups aren't necessarily the easiest to drive. For example, I can drive low 1:32s with my setup and feel comfortable. With Sracer's set.. it's fighting all the way to keep it some sort of order. So: find an easy to drive setup that's perhaps not the fastest. Something you can make do more or less what you intended to.

Some simple tips:
-Locking brakes are bad. Reduce brake strength.

-Fish-tailing under braking is bad. Move brake bias towards front.

-If you understeer into corners, slow down more before and accelerate out.

-Aim for the correct line, first slowly, then increase entry speed to find how fast it can be driven at.

-Smooth braking and turning is vital. Switch from braking to accelerating into a corner too fast and the tail will slide. Turning too hard has the same effect.

-Try braking to just over the speed you'll take the corner at, and slightly earlier. Then roll (no gas, no brakes) through the apex and step on it when there's no danger of going wide.

You could give my set a go. It's pretty fast (can in theory do at least 32.0x), should be quite stable. Increase the rear anti-roll bar if the tail slides in corners.

first of all, thanks for the head-up guys. Just to answer a few details I may have forgot:

I use a ps2 wheel which also works on the pc. That shouldn't be the problem.
Further I am using sracers world record setup (with compound tyres) because my best laps I drove with this setup.

I also should mention that I am not a real life racer like many of you seem to be judging from some forum threads. Actually I drive even slower than my girl friend

I now drove some rounds for you, so you can look at my (non-existant) skills. As you can see, I am slow, but at least I am constant slow

I will now take a more detailed look at your tips and thanks in advance for any feedback to my replay.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Increase the rear anti-roll bar if the tail slides in corners.

Really?

Quote from Batterypark :

Really?

Yeah that doesn't sound right to me either.

Does anyone apply little bit of brake when at apex in Gti?

I do, I use it to balance understeer a bit, so I can floor it earlier, don't know if it helps with clock but driving is easier and feels faster.

Usually with Gti I tend to turn too much, then also just a little bit of brake helps front to gain grip again.

They use that trick in rally mostly, but maybe few guys on track too.

I'm terrible slow with FWD cars (1:37 in BLGP with Gti), so I don't think that I can tell how to drive fast with those :P

well i actually just lift off. and get the car into a bit of oversteer before the corner and the car slowly comes out of it just after the apex. i think that is the fastest way for most corners with gti and for tighter corners like the 1st corner of blgp, i break hard and after that i lift off for a short time and then slowly ease onto the gass. i take the chicane after that full throttle.

i have my gti set up so that it is pretty damn oversteery for a fwd though :P

Quote from Holliday :

Yeah that doesn't sound right to me either.

Increasing the rear anti-roll reduces weight transfer when cornering, hence the rear is more balanced..

or

Decreasing the rear anti-roll bar setting makes for more weight transfer. That means the butt swings like a hula-hula dancer's hips.

How does this not make sense, or am I totally off the track.. ?

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Increasing the rear anti-roll reduces weight transfer when cornering, hence the rear is more balanced..

or

Decreasing the rear anti-roll bar setting makes for more weight transfer. That means the butt swings like a hula-hula dancer's hips.

How does this not make sense, or am I totally off the track.. ?

Have you tested it?

Tighter(increased) rear ARB is more oversteer, or it has been very long time if not changed recently

Just having a higher rear ARB on a RWD car for example will just give the rear end more twitchyness and should make it easier for you to slide out while in turns or applying the throttle on corner exits. Lower ARB would solve the problem, but make the rear end feel very washy and sluggish... however it feels better (at least to me) because you are in control more. It just is a matter of camber and antiroll to solve some corner grip issues.

The same applies for the front end. Stiffer gives you way more response, at the cost of understeer possibly (you have to have very low negative camber to rid of it). Softer gives again... a washy feel with less responsiveness, but better suited for those who like a loose feel.

Those settings are also all dependant on cars using high downforce, and slicks.... making this only apply to the road cars really...

In this case, the GTi, the best configuration to have for a FWD car is medium-high-stiff front with low/medium camber to get the power down so you wont have understeer or grip loss when accelerating out of corners, and a soft anti-roll rear end that can carry the car through a corner nicely without having unwanted instability... to point you in the right direction when needed.

Like some have said, you shouldn't use WR times to define if you are fast online
or not. WR times are single laps made alone. Those WR holders aren't all great
online and i know a few who can only do a few WR times once in a while but
can't manage to win races that often since they are always pushing too much.
If you can be consistent and maintain times around what you've had so far, i'm
sure you'll be fine. Be smooth, be patient and stay out of the start-to-turn1
tropical storm.

ok, so after another (felt) 1 mio rounds I managed to get an 1:36:03 round (with NotAnIllusions setup), but the 1:36 seems unbreakable for me. Still I feel I have to get at least 1:34... until racing online, that must be possible, even for me. I'm not even under the first 500 fastest laps with my time.

I will now follow your advice to switch to another car/track. Already tried the xr gt on blackwood, but this car is the horror ! The oversteering is insane, I have yet to complete one round without crash.

I will choose the fz50 on aston club reverse, the car seems fine to control, I tried some laps with standard (race_1) setup and was 7 seconds behind world record. I will come back to the gti later, this is still my main discipline

Hehe, it's interesting that you find the XR GT horrible. I'm quite the opposite. I just can't touch any FWD car without thinking: "This is wrong. So wrong. Wrong!!! WRONG!!!!!"

Vain

Do yourself a favor and check out Bob Smith's Easy Race Setups for the street cars. They are generally well balanced and provide an excellent base for learning on. If the GT had horrible oversteer, it was most likely the set.

The GT rules. It's so easy to drive it's untrue. Yet newbies still struggle to keep it straight... just comes with practise.

I always aim to be within 103% of the WR, that seems a good time to aim for (actually isn't that what the benchmark system uses?)

Weight transfer is one thing that driver need to fully understand, without understanding weight transfer and what it causes to car when driving fast, then it is most likely that car is spinning all the time.

With RWD cars, just start with drifiting and sliding around, put some cones and try to drift around them, soon you will notice how with braking you can shift weight towards front and cause oversteer etc...

I have been working with real car like setup for xr gt so it would be bit more challenging to drift and drive, current one is working pretty ok, but is not even near to completition, when I'm finished it could be quite shock to newbie as car will not stay on track and it will be difficult to go fast, just like real cars are, anyone can drive, but only few can control car at insane speeds.