Quote from Ardent :

ok, so after another (felt) 1 mio rounds I managed to get an 1:36:03 round (with NotAnIllusions setup), but the 1:36 seems unbreakable for me. Still I feel I have to get at least 1:34... until racing online, that must be possible, even for me. I'm not even under the first 500 fastest laps with my time.

it might be a good idea simply to ignore the fact that you are seemingly slow at the moment and just go onlne and drive a few laps with the gti on bl1 (might be hard to find a good server for that combination these days) i and lost of other people did their best laptimes while following some other faster driver

Quote :

I will now follow your advice to switch to another car/track. Already tried the xr gt on blackwood, but this car is the horror ! The oversteering is insane, I have yet to complete one round without crash.

ive given this speech a few times before and to my astonishment neither tristan or ian has tried to jump and strangle me for it yet ...
anyway ... to me the besst way of lerning how to gain control over the rwds in lfs is to delibaretly loose the rear end while cornering and trying to keep it steady while going sideways round the corner (also know as drifting best place to practice is the carpark ... try the dfp 900° mode setups you can find on setupfield)
what this will teach you is how to control the movements of the car with countersteering and with the loud pedal (its even better if you own a fdfp because you also lean to be very smooth while drifting the car)
i always though the xrg and expecially the xrt were impossible to handle ... after a few days of practicing on in the car park (as somebody already mentions dont drive too long on one car/track combo ... drive a while then stop let the new thing you learned settle for a while then go back) i started to get that strange feeling that the car actually had too much grip to loose the rear end
now a few weeks later ive even impressed a friend of mine who has years even decades more sim expierence than me with some countersteers in the fo8
but i still like to go back to that xrt in the carpark every now and then after ive spun out in the fo8 or one of the gtrs to remind me of how to do it right

Sometimes it can help to try out the XR GT Turbo a bit. Drive it until you
can take turns without spinning all over the place. Once you get better
at keeping the rear inline, go back to the XR GT. You might find it much
easier to control then. It worked for me.

When I first tried lfs some time back it was a huge problem for me that the car (xt turbo) wanted to go sideways so easily. For example the uphill right just before finish line in BL1 scared the hell out of me! But it didn't took long as I learned that sliding the rear end wasn't always going to lead to a spin. You can have long controllable slides and even change the direction if you know some tricks. Unlike in any other game that calls itself a racing simulator this isn't possible.

I would just try to improve my lines and throttle control.

hehe, thanks for all your tips. I had some fun with the fz50 gtr on aston club, although I didn't break the world record

Now (mainly because of your advertising) I came back to that crazy xr gt and drove a few rounds. You can find them attached, so you have something to laugh at. Yeah, I was raping my wheel to break the 1:40... guess there isn't any chance I will break the world record with that car :P

I believe you that with practise I will be able to handle it and I understand now that this car is favored by the pro drivers because of its high difficulty. I still think the oversteering of rwd's in this game, especially the xr, is way exaggerated compared to reality. If this was realistic, I wouldn't be able to drive my fathers car out of the garage and woman would never get drivers licenses :P

XR stinks :P

The main problem, which is widely known around here, is the way the tyres don't regain grip quickly enough. Once they start sliding they like to keep sliding, rather than suddenly grip. This makes the oversteer seem much worse than it really is. With regards to losing grip in the first place, it seems about right to me, but it's quite hard to judge perfectly with the aforementioned problem.

Bear in mind (no matter what some people say) that LFS isn't finished (i.e. all three stages) and that the second stage isn't yet considered complete either. It's not a 100% perfect excuse, but compared to any other 65% finished game it's pretty good don't you think!

Quote from tristancliffe :

The main problem, which is widely known around here, is the way the tyres don't regain grip quickly enough. Once they start sliding they like to keep sliding, rather than suddenly grip. This makes the oversteer seem much worse than it really is.

the problem is even worse from what i can tell ... to me it seems that the cars refuse to regain grip at all right after you begin to slide but once you have kept the car in the slide for a bit they seem to grip again whenever you want them to

wow, notanillusion's gti setup is really a good one, I now keep getting times between 1:35:34 and 1:35:77, very constantly without any crashes or invalid rounds ! I also had a 0:30:98 in the first split, which pretty close to sracers WR. With the xr I also had a 1:36 lap, but the real problem is to drive constant. That car behaves really unpredictable, I have times between 1:43 and 1:36 and crash every 4 rounds.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Bear in mind (no matter what some people say) that LFS isn't finished (i.e. all three stages) and that the second stage isn't yet considered complete either. It's not a 100% perfect excuse, but compared to any other 65% finished game it's pretty good don't you think!

yeah, actually I know finished (released) games which were in worse condition. That wasn't meant as complaint for the game, but as complaint for the stupid xr It controls me but it should be the other way round.

Yeah that setup is really nice, just turned six laps with it and nailed some 1:34.60-90s with mouse.

back in S1 days when I was a n00b I remember thinking the XR GT was a bear to drive. After spending a lot of time driving Formula V8 and XR, its like a pleasant stroll around the track. Driving it fast is still baffling to me, but just driving it is easy now.

it takes a while to get the hang of all the setup options, but you should become familiar with the anti roll bars as quickly as possible. higher front anti roll bars will stop the car spinning out as easily, higher rear anti roll causes more oversteer / spinning. Adjust these until you can drive the car comfortably. Personally I'm most comfortable in an oversteering fwd (where throttle can be used to stabilise it) and an understeering rwd. (heavy throttle can be used to destabilise the car, light throttle will stabilise)
oversteering rwd setups have more potential, but understeering setups can come close and are *much* easier to drive.

Just one obvious thing for rwd cars: shift down LATE and SLOW! Don't develop the habit of quick GTi like downshifting as soon as you brake, it will only make your rear go nuts and pass you.

And because under braking most weight is at the front wheels, engine braking is much less important in rwd cars anyways.

Quote from Ardent :

wow, notanillusion's gti setup is really a good one, I now keep getting times between 1:35:34 and 1:35:77, very constantly without any crashes or invalid rounds ! I also had a 0:30:98 in the first split, which pretty close to sracers WR. With the xr I also had a 1:36 lap, but the real problem is to drive constant. That car behaves really unpredictable, I have times between 1:43 and 1:36 and crash every 4 rounds.

You are definately fast enough to race online, 1:35 is very good for a fairly new player. Heck, I know guys that have driven tens of thousands of miles in LFS who would be proud of those times. Seriously, don't worry about setting world records, that's a pretty unreasonable goal, unless you want to practice LFS 24/7, just go online, and have fun, no one gets mad at people that are slow, especially if you're in control of your car and pay attention to flags. You're looking like a pretty good LFS driver to me, don't worry, times will only get faster :up:

Nothing wrong with slowness what so ever. We all start somewhere. The only thing that will cause annoyance is being unreasonable. Either by not being careful near other cars, or blocking excessively. Making the same mistake (like not braking into T1) over and over again won't win you favours either.

And this applies to experienced people and new people.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Nothing wrong with slowness what so ever. We all start somewhere. The only thing that will cause annoyance is being unreasonable. Either by not being careful near other cars, or blocking excessively. Making the same mistake (like not braking into T1) over and over again won't win you favours either.

And this applies to experienced people and new people.

Exactly my thoughts there

At the start i was also slow, i think that's normal enough. everybody has to learn at the start in virtual and in real life. after a few months i became a fairly fast slow driver (i know that sounds strange ) After i started to drive in the ESL ESCC i focused on the FZR and now i think that i'm a medium fast driver and i've learned much about setups. In fact i drove the XF GTi some days ago, and it's been months since i drived it last time. Well what happened? i almost instantly broke all my hotlap times with this car. But from the start (my start) with S2 until now 3 months passed and i'm still in the learning phase i think.

on a side note ... why do all fast gti setups use hybrids nowerdays ? some kind of exploit that im not aware of ?

i still can get in 1:33's with normals and probably 1'32s. i've heard people who get wr times use hybrids because they can hold a higher max g.

Quote from Gabkicks :

i still can get in 1:33's with normals and probably 1'32s. i've heard people who get wr times use hybrids because they can hold a higher max g.

weird, that doesn't seem like it should be the case.

Quote from Gabkicks :

i still can get in 1:33's with normals and probably 1'32s. i've heard people who get wr times use hybrids because they can hold a higher max g.

The hybrids get used in the rear. I think they give more grip back there because they actually come up to temperature. They use road normals up front. At least the set I got is that way. It is pretty darned fast.

haha, i'll have to try that. once i fix my pedals. how much of a lap time advantage is there?

My impression is that anyone can go online and be competitive when you can beat the (trained) AI in singleplayer.
That means: Let the AI race about 100 laps on a track. Then it will propably know the car/track-combo and drive decent times for the setup given (make sure it's using your setup). When you can now beat the AI laptime-wise and absolute-time-wise you're propably set for online racing. You may not drive the WR, but you have the control of the car and knowledge of the track to soon drive very nice times.
And a small tip about the AI: Put one or two really slow cars on the grid. Their presence will let the AI-drivers learn overtaking.
My AI-drivers, f.e., do 1:38-times on Westhill International in the FOX. Pretty decent. I couldn't decisively beat them until yesterday, when I managed to drive some 1:37-times.
Also the AI will help you find good and bad spots for overtaking. People tend to believe you can take over in any place where you're faster, but that's really wrong.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

People tend to believe you can take over in any place where you're faster, but that's really wrong.

Absolutely!!!! That's why we have so many accidents. No one has patience to hold back until an overtaking point, and just try to force their way though a car! If only more people in LFS would sit down and learn to overtake (and that includes some of the aliens )

Theres a nice idea for us noobs....

A track guide, showing overtaking points, best lines etc.....

A nice jpeg would suit

Anyone of the 'good people' up for that ? aliens or otherwise

After about 100 laps the AI has worked out a pretty decent line and rather good braking-points. Copy the AI and you'll be able to keep up with most people. After that learn from other players to improve your line.

Vain

is there any good way to learn proper trailbraking ? as far as i can tell my skills when it comes to trailbraking (or rather lack thereof) are the reason my laptimes dont improve
yesterday i gave it a few tries at blackwood with the gti and the fo8 and the results were ... well ashaming and always the same ... heavy oversteer (maybe my driftsessions to lean throttle controll are coming back to haunt me and i instinctively brakedrift instead of trailbrake)
anyway the gti sure has gotten a lot quicker ... somehow i still managed a very sideways 1:36 which i could barely do in 0.5l

Until recently I didn't have a clue how trail-braking works. Looked like black magic to me.
Then I discovered that the setups I sometimes recieved were understeering by nature. That means the car is only balanced while braking. That was my key to trail-braking. Induce a bit of understeer (I'm talking of minimal changes, 1kN is often enough) in the suspension and you will actually have to trail-brake to keep the car turning. Nothing easier than this.
This additional grip on the rear also helps with accelerating out of the corner.
Though... I have no clue about setting up downforce-cars.

Vain