The online racing simulator
My observations on the sounds:
1)The sound is more clear with headphones, but lacks punch. With my speakers, the sound has more rasp to it. I can feel it vibrate my chest at certain throttle positions. This might be harmonics kicking in giving you that pulsing feeling. I have cheap speakers, so the rasp might just be distortion even though the volume is not that loud.

2) Road going cars definitely do have gear noise. It does get louder as you go faster and the pitch does go up. However, much of the time it is drowned out by the engine, road and wind noises combined. So the gear noise should not necessarily be lessened in the cars, but the engine note and road noise should mostly overwhelm it, but it should still be there as a component of the overall sound.

3) I think the transition from low RPM to high RPM should have a steeper volume increase. I just don't think the volume of the engine gets loud enough at higher RPM. This seems to particularly be a problem with the BF1. The engine sounds about the same as before, it is just drowned out by the gear and traction control noises.

4) For any competitive driving that I have ever seen, to include club racing, as a minimum, the driver's window must be down even in road cars for safety. The only time I have seen windows up is for track days and fun drives. This would allow a lot more tire, road, and wind noise.

5) This is a sim, not a real car. I think the tire noise must be adjustable in a wider range so we can hear it over the other noises. It might be a bit of a crutch, but I think it is needed because we can't feel the g's, so to speak.

6) For those that think the cars don't sound good, try driving them like you would a normal car on the street (because that is what you are really used to hearing). Don't shift when the red light tells you to; shift into 5th like you were cruising at 70 mph down the freeway. Most of the cars sounds right. Most of us have only heard race cars from outside, or from in-car videos. Every car is going to sound different, and depending on the microphone type and location, you will get vastly different sounds every time. Don't try to judge LFS sounds by those recordings. Take elements of them, yes, but don't try to make LFS sound like those recordings. For example, the gear noise in some recordings are totally intense. I suspect some of this is from the microphone location and is not representative of how the car would sound from the driver's seat.
Quote from KiDCoDEa :todd u are well known for taking every oportunity to showcase your work and point us to the commercial website. im fine with that since obviously the mods never noticed thats what u do in this forum for years.
but taking the test patch and showcasing your synth engine... man...

I normally wouldn't bother responding to you, KidCodea, and have no plans on taking your suggestions or opinions there seriously. You've made a reputation for yourself as a downright nasty fella. I remember an encounter with you in the demo days pre-S1. Let's not go there though so the thread can stay on topic: About LFS.

Deggis wrote in this thread about my system and how it sounded quite synthetic. I was merely pointing out that it has advanced since those earlier demos. Clearly he was interested so I thought it was logical to pop up the latest. I surely was not trying to show up LFS or anything like that.

There is a lot of talk in the LFS forums about sound. My point was that it is indeed possible to get a raspy, obnoxious type of uncorked 700HP+ V8 sound in real time synthesis. Obviously that sound is not right for a mellower engine running through mufflers

Regarding my behavior in the LFS forums: If the mods or developers would like me to tone it down or stop doing this or that, all they need to do is ask via a PM and I'll gladly comply out of professional courtesy. There seem to be quite a few people around here interested though, so I'll continue posting unless asked otherwise.

Quote :
doesnt really matter what deaf axus begs you to do. its nowhere near the quality of lfs and just killed off my ears with fatality move.

Some people will like it, some won't. I can live with that

Quote :
stop hyping what u never did and please stop hyping yaaself and leading a few clown to post everywhere about you.

Not sure what you mean there by "what u never did." You seem to be aware of plans I have that I am not. That's remarkably insightful

Quote :its not cool and makes u look less talented than what u may be. its been 3 years with avis that look worse than racer. feel free to post cool stuff on the offtopic section if u really care.

Oh, it's been longer than that, come on now

Quote :
and please stop acting as mr bridgestone who is married to mrs yokohama.

I'm more flattered by your need to attack me than anything else. Congrats, you're the first person to do so here that I can recall I might be offended if it were coming from anyone else.

Now let's avoid a pissing match here and let folks discuss what's important instead, shall we?
Auto Update TEST (U33)
Hello all.

I've put an update on the automatic update system.

If you run LFS and click on List of Games, you'll be given the option to download the update.

Changes :

Higher Wind and Skid boost volumes (default and maximum)
Small changes to system improving all car engines just a little
An updated BF1 engine sound file (not finished but better)

FIX : Autocross editor did not show "Set as default" button
FIX : Repeated clicking sound while loading cars in garage
FIX : Channel screen brought up a background while in game

Download :

No download, just click List of Games inside LFS
That was one smooth update, worked very well!
Quote from jtw62074 :I normally wouldn't bother responding to you, KidCodea, and have no plans on taking your suggestions or opinions there seriously. You've made a reputation for yourself as a downright nasty fella. I remember an encounter with you in the demo days pre-S1. Let's not go there though so the thread can stay on topic: About LFS.

Deggis wrote in this thread about my system and how it sounded quite synthetic. I was merely pointing out that it has advanced since those earlier demos. Clearly he was interested so I thought it was logical to pop up the latest. I surely was not trying to show up LFS or anything like that.

There is a lot of talk in the LFS forums about sound. My point was that it is indeed possible to get a raspy, obnoxious type of uncorked 700HP+ V8 sound in real time synthesis. Obviously that sound is not right for a mellower engine running through mufflers

Regarding my behavior in the LFS forums: If the mods or developers would like me to tone it down or stop doing this or that, all they need to do is ask via a PM and I'll gladly comply out of professional courtesy. There seem to be quite a few people around here interested though, so I'll continue posting unless asked otherwise.



Some people will like it, some won't. I can live with that



Not sure what you mean there by "what u never did." You seem to be aware of plans I have that I am not. That's remarkably insightful



Oh, it's been longer than that, come on now



I'm more flattered by your need to attack me than anything else. Congrats, you're the first person to do so here that I can recall I might be offended if it were coming from anyone else.

Now let's avoid a pissing match here and let folks discuss what's important instead, shall we?

please get grown up and stay ontopic

no need to argue here, its talk about U32 and U32 is mostly about sounds so your ideas and words are welcome todd.

my personal feeling is your system is nice but also not near perfect. anyway i dont think the devs will invite you to join dev'ing so maybe u could try to explain ways how YOU would improve the sounds.

anyway noone can blame you only becouz u make sum own cool synthsoundsys
The autoupdater worked as expected - only one thing, can the "You have the latest version" string which appears on the top of the server listing after you have updated become translatable?
auto update went smooth here

- the shift-u move speed bug is still there
- bf1 is a defininte improvement - still sounds wrong but at least it sounds like its reving at 20k

Quote from jtw62074 :http://www.performancesimulations.com/files/EngineSimAudioComparison.wmv

didnt want to comment on that before to keep my posts on topic but guess i can get away with meshing it into an on topic post
i understand you dont want to go into details about how you generate it but could you still answer a few general question ?
- you said its absolutely samplefree so i assume the excitation is a noise source ?
- it sounds like there sound is mostly made up of two tracks namely the explosions and some kind of mechanical noise that sets in at higher revs ... correct and what is that mechanical noise ?

oh and btw i like it ... sounds synthetic ? sure but it does sound a lot like an engine firing ... a very american engine but an engine nontheless



EDIT:

skid sounds are still too low imho sounds very distant and muffeled
Quote from xaotik :The autoupdater worked as expected - only one thing, can the "You have the latest version" string which appears on the top of the server listing after you have updated become translatable?

No because that's just a temporary message - any version can be sent any message to be displayed there, so it's not possible to translate it.
Quote from Shotglass :auto update went smooth here

- the shift-u move speed bug is still there

I tried but could not reproduce it. It worked fine, so I can't fix it.

The slider that was displayed on the screen, always affected the current move speed, regardless of it was high or low in high or low mode.
Any chance that the auto updater displays the changelog ingame so we don't need to check the board?
That auto updater works really good Good job on it
The new sounds (which I've only tested briefly) already sound a bit better, so good work. The BF1 is a bit too much of a screamer at low revs with load on. I'd have thought it would become much deeper pulling out of a slow corner than at 19000 flat out on a back straight, but it's definately an improvment.

Out of curiosity, what sort of 'power' does the new sound engine give you? Are you in full control of everything, or is it a bit simplified at the moment (because the old BF1 at lower revs and the new one at higher revs might sound better, and I was curious if you can mix them together a little bit).

The skid sounds are really easy to hear (for me) in any car. The turbo is a little overpowering on the MRT. Wind noise is very apparent as well.

Looking forward to the next sound patch... The auto-update system worked without a hitch. Next suggestion (I know I shouldn't... but here is the best place really): can you make the auto-updater show an applicable change log (e.g. I updated from U32 to U33, so only need to see U33 change log, where as U20 users might want to see a longer list of changes...). Some form of change-log/readme in game might help for those who have not read the forums, and it might be worth allowing them to click 'read' prior to downloading.

Top work, yet again!
Quote from GeForz :Any chance that the auto updater displays the changelog ingame so we don't need to check the board?

I could of sworn mine had a message saying "Sound improvements and language updates" - granted, a bit vague...
Quote from Shotglass :
- the shift-u move speed bug is still there

- I noticed that too.

- As I recorded scenes from a replay while Shift+F mode, the splittimes were still displayed.
When I purposely cause the autoupdate to abort the following not-so-friendly-as-the-rest message appears saying:

CONNABORTED then Connection aborted: www.lfsforum.net

Also, minor inconsistency - the servers available list www.lfsforum.net as the primary one yet when the abortion occurs LFS prompts the user to try again using www.liveforspeed.net
Quote from Scawen :I tried but could not reproduce it. It worked fine, so I can't fix it.

The slider that was displayed on the screen, always affected the current move speed, regardless of it was high or low in high or low mode.

turns out my intial report was incomplete as it only happens if follow car is set on
with follow car off everything works as expected with follow car on the slider in low mode affects both views

Quote from tristancliffe :The skid sounds are really easy to hear (for me) in any car.

its audible but theyre not as piercing as i and (i think it was) sam would expect them to be
Scawen,

Much better BF1 sound thanks As you say obviously still a WIP, but it's getting there. I'd say the biggest thing that needs to change is higher up in the revs. It sounds too electronic and needs to be a little less digital if that makes any sense.

If you need a particularly good reference, this is as good as you're going to find anywhere :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcJxuXHD3t4

I think the main thing is the sound needs to change through the revs. You get a sort of harmonic resonance IRL at certain revs.
auto update works fine....
Quote from YYota :At certain speed/rpm... you get your ears resonating/pulsating with the sound. For example, take the UF GTR in 3rd speed, when accelerating around 8000/9000 rpm, my ears are like exploding. This happens on many other cars, mainly near the limiter of the car.

This is very unpleasing. I only saw one or two people more or less complaining about this but not in a very precise way. I'm no audio expert but I guess this is due to the sound being too perfect/clean as some people described it.

I just have to add my voice to this comment, as I have a similar experience with the new sounds. I'm no audio expert either, so I have a hard time trying to put into words what it sounds like, but it's some kind of resonance in there that's really unpleasant to listen to. (Especially on headphones.) After a while it's close to physically hurting.

If you listen to Dolby Surround mixes of movie soundtracks for instance (The old two-channel Dolby surround), the mixed in rear channel will have a similar effect to it. You can also hear it if you play some 80s palm-muted thrash-metal riffs though low quality, bassy speakers.

I don't know if that made any sense, but at least I tried.

EDIT: Dolby Pro Logic it was called, not Dolby Surround...
Auto update and things went fine, I tried the BF1 and atleast it is bearable now but it still has a silly sounding whine to it, but aslong aqs it's still being worked on i'm happy.

I did however get this when I opened the server list.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5072/wrongversionck2.jpg

I'm guessing you can't see S1 servers with the new patch, as it only showed up after I updated.
A question about the auto updater (which worked fine here):

Is / will there be an option to skip the test patches so you get only informed about "official" releases?
At the moment LFS seems to check for all new patches with the first request of the server list (meaning you only get reminded once and every new start of lfs).

Btw: at the moment it's not even saying that it's a TEST patch, it just says "LFS_32 TO U33", but as it's a test patch (and may contain new bugs) it should be stated clearly for all people what kind of patch they download
Went from U30 to U32, so used a unlock, but could not race with the new sounds as they gave me a headache with the constant drone.

I also found that the lack of skid noise made me slower.

So i went Back to U30, using another unlock

No unlocks left so sorry but cannot try U33.

I have sent an email but still no unlocks

I think you will find there are several people in the same boat.

Edit: Unlocks arrived - Thanks
Quote from birder :Went from U30 to U32, so used a unlock, but could not race with the new sounds as they gave me a headache with the constant drone.

I also found that the lack of skid noise made me slower.

So i went Back to U30, using another unlock

No unlocks left so sorry but cannot try U33.

I have sent an email but still no unlocks

I think you will find there are several people in the same boat.

for the future id advise you to always copy your entire lfs folder before you apply a test patch
Auto-update went smoothly, nice work with that.

A great general improvement in sound across the board. I don't think anyone can say its worse than U. I'm still not convinced by the gear whine (assuming anything's changed apart from volume). I hope to see that being played around with. The LX4 still sounds a tad muffled to me. I second Tristan on his BF1 comments, but its a lot better than it was in U32 for sure.

I think that the engine sound gets reduced to an annoying hummmmm at high RPM in many cars though (4-cyl ones especially). They really need more violence still . Although, I like where U33 is going.

EDIT: BTW, title still says U32.
with patch U33 i was unable to join server running on U21.
Quote from Bawbag :I did however get this when I opened the server list.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/5072/wrongversionck2.jpg

I'm guessing you can't see S1 servers with the new patch, as it only showed up after I updated.

OK now this is weired!

I mean you can see servers running Version 0.5: U, U15, U20, U23, U25, U30, U32
Then there are a few listened as wrong version running 0.5: T, U19, U21, U28

And I see some S1 servers running U20, U30, U32
This thread is closed

OLD test patch thread, up to U35
(851 posts, closed, started )
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