Scawen, you look happier than before (2 months) . Your kid is less work for you?

We wish you really good holidays

Quote from (-Mark-) :

i quite like the sounds now, got used to them, although the bf1 sounds REALLY too high pitched

I'd say they're pretty close in terms of pitch:
http://uk.video.yahoo.com/vide ... %3DUTF-8%26meta%3Dvc%253D

Quote from BWX232 :

I am talking about the kind of control that lets me raise the volume of the the tire skid sound to the loudest thing there is, and lower the volume of everything else so that all I ever hear is the tire skid sounds.. The same for the gear whine, the BOV sound, the Turbo sound, all of them.. Make it so we can fine tune it, without such restrictive limits. All that does is make is sound horrible on our particular systems (because of the locked down volume level adjustment) without the ability to "fix" it.

However the Sounds of LFS progresses, I hope that letting the player have that much control over the Sound Settings will not make it to the final Version.

Sounds should be roughly the same for everybody, for the sake of fairness players shouldnt be able to set the tire skid sounds louder than usual because that would give them an advantage as they hear the tyres grip limit far too clear than compared to somebody running the standard Sound Settings which than has more volume in engine sounds or wind noises.

Unfortunately the Auto Update doesn't work for me :-(
I always get the message - "Could not save file"
I already looked,if i had enough free space.. and yes,that's not the problem.
Any suggestions?

Thanks Jakg, Thanks Axus

The game password and user name etc did that come in an email? I can't remember either of them which sucks!

Quote from T R I C K Y :

Unfortunately the Auto Update doesn't work for me :-(
I always get the message - "Could not save file"
I already looked,if i had enough free space.. and yes,that's not the problem.
Any suggestions?

Read and write permissions?

Quote from T R I C K Y :

Unfortunately the Auto Update doesn't work for me :-(
I always get the message - "Could not save file"
I already looked,if i had enough free space.. and yes,that's not the problem.
Any suggestions?

sounds like your LFS folder could be set to read only

Tricky, maybe the LFS directory you're installing to is set to read-only?
It sometimes happens when you copy it to HDD from a CD/DVD backup.

Quote from George Kuyumji :

Sounds should be roughly the same for everybody

Yep, adaptating LFS to individual users' DSP settings is backasswards..

At least U30 will still be compatible with V, yes?

Vain

Yep,that was it :-) Thanks a lot guys!

Quote from Scawen :

What did you want to hear? I guess you mean, you want me to work a lot more on the sounds before patch V?

But... I insist on a couple of weeks break for Christmas holiday, I can't just go on and on without a pause. Therefore Patch V with all its major imrovements must come out *this week*. So we're out of time for major sound updates, which would be risky.

I'll only be doing a few small tweaks to the sound. The idea is that we can work on it more in later versions. No-one ever said we will stop working on the sound. But it has to come to a stop for Patch V. At least it's safe to say that it's much better than the old sound.

Some will disagree but I think it's nice that you can drive without getting a headache. I think most agree that the U33 sounds are better than the old sounds. Please don't agree or disagree to this last sentence, that's what the whole thread is about!

Quote from Scawen :

Why do you assume those are the only speakers? Just because you can't see the bass driver on the floor?

Do you really think the reason the LFS sounds could do with improving is because I can't hear them in some way? The LFS sounds are awaiting a major rewrite of the engine code at some point and better sound simulation. That is not new info, I've said the same thing for years.

Sound generation is very difficult. The sound is less than realistic but it's not because I am deaf or have bad speakers. It's because it requires months of development, devoted entirely to sounds.

I guess I was expecting this "major rewrite"

No offense, of course you can and should have your holidays (and whenever you do it is none of my business ). I understand that you want to spend the christmas without coding LFS stuff and releasing sound bug fixes.

I don't understand why, instead of making the sounds much better, you make just slight adjustments? But, as I said, I was expecting the major rewrite though I wasn't expecting that the deadline for the sound update was christmas nor do I think that this major rewrite can be done in the time spend on the sounds in last months.

Why to spend weeks to fix something that will be demolished and totally rewritten not-so-much later?

I'll stop this posting now in this thread. I understand that this post is just one among many useless posts. I just can't give any constructive critisism when the emphasis is on short implementation time instead of believable sound system

I can see he's done a major rewrite of the sound engine, so why can't you. The implementation of that rewrite might not be perfect yet, but the rewite has occured nevertheless.

Has it occured to you that the sound system might not be constrained by the sound system anymore, but by some other aspect of LFS, one that perhaps might need an incompatible patch to fix? Has it not occured to you that the new system is already vastly more powerful than the old one, albeit in it's early stages of use? Look at the air intake noise, the turbo whine, the gear change clonk, the starter sound. I wouldn't be surprised if there is room in the system for brake noise as well (when brake temps get modelled). The engines might sound too alike AT THE MOMENT, but that doesn't mean they always will...

Just because YOU don't like the current sounds doesn't mean the underlying system isn't any better. I appreciate that we all have different tastes, different ears, and different requirements for LFS, but trolling for the sake of trolling (as a number of you are, in my opinion) isn't getting any of us anywhere.

If you want LFS to sound better, suggest some stuff (as some of you have), and give it time to be coded/implemented. Scawen DOES read our suggestions, and the ones he thinks have merit will likely get looked at. We can't ask for any more than that, and I don't beleive we get any less than that either.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I don't understand why, instead of making the sounds much better, you make just slight adjustments?

You're heading for flame territory here, y'know. Think about it like anything else - it's better to make lots of small adjustments than it is to change everything and then maybe have to revert back because it broke something or didn't work as intended.

How exactly do you define "much better" if you can't first work out "a little better". It's not just a case of turning up the "Good Sound" setting!

When setting up your car, do you mash the sliders from one extreme to the other? Well, you might, but it's much better to slide a little way, test it, slide it a little more, test again. And that's exactly what these test patches are for.

Quote from George Kuyumji :

However the Sounds of LFS progresses, I hope that letting the player have that much control over the Sound Settings will not make it to the final Version.

Sounds should be roughly the same for everybody, for the sake of fairness players shouldnt be able to set the tire skid sounds louder than usual because that would give them an advantage as they hear the tyres grip limit far too clear than compared to somebody running the standard Sound Settings which than has more volume in engine sounds or wind noises.

It will have to be encypted and hard coded sound files to achieve that

As it stands now I can just open up the sound files I want a bit louder like SkidRoadHeavyPre and increase it's overall amplitude by 3dB or so and voila I have louder skid volume than you... so probably better to make it available to all via audio option settings in the menu so everyone can have the same control

And as BWX232 already stated having the same sound for everyone doesn't give the same sound because each persons PC hardware and whether they use high end speakers, headphones or cheap speakers is all going to affect the final result of what the sound will be. So enabling more sound adjustments is more likely to be fairer as it will enable more people to get the best possible sound experience from the particular setup...

Quote from George Kuyumji :

However the Sounds of LFS progresses, I hope that letting the player have that much control over the Sound Settings will not make it to the final Version.

Sounds should be roughly the same for everybody, for the sake of fairness players shouldnt be able to set the tire skid sounds louder than usual because that would give them an advantage as they hear the tyres grip limit far too clear than compared to somebody running the standard Sound Settings which than has more volume in engine sounds or wind noises.

Well that is exactly my point.. you make it for me. The variances in all out PC's, sound cards, speakers, etc, are making it so some people can't hear many of the sounds AT ALL.. So I cannot see how giving more control to the end user gives any advantage. If we were all playing LFS on consoles (like an X-box) with TV speakers, I can see your argument.. although it is a very very weak one. I could give 100 other reasons why that argument doesn't hold up, like the the quality differences in input devices, the size of out monitors/displays, the speed of computers, the framerate, the FOV, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on forever but I won't give you all the examples...

Anyway-

The fact is though, we are all on hugely different hardware that gives us all very different results. With the correct tuning, what we all hear on our own systems with our own ears could be quite enjoyable instead of being incredibly frustrating, and in some cases, downright painful. That isn't because of the quality of the sounds, it's because of the balance of the sounds that LFS has no control over because of the nature of "the PC" (different hardware=different results- bottom line)

Quote from Breizh :

Yep, adaptating LFS to individual users' DSP settings is backasswards..

No it is not adapting to "different DSP settings".

It is adapting to different DSPs - that are connected to different soundcards altogether - that are connected to different speakers.

Quote from Vain :

At least U30 will still be compatible with V, yes?

Vain

20 bucks on "not compatible" ;P

do not stress the coder, we dont have a spare one.
thanks

So.. I'll try and give my impression of the u33 sound. I think it's a vast improvement in comparison to u30, but as already said the engine sounds need a bit of tweaking.... IMO the engine sounds of the LRF cars and below are much better than in u30 and could be left alone for the time being, but the stronger cars, in particular the big GTRs, sound kind of muffled. I think a car with such a strong engine shouldn't have a humming sound, even if you've got a helmet on. I miss the feeling of explosions going off in the engine. The fzr is worst. There is no rattling or shrieking in its sound, like I expect when i sit in a car that powerful.

In general the sounds are good, but much to tame for the bigger cars.

Greetz

aimbottle

The u33 sounds a lot better than U32.
Have a nice holiday with your family.:grouphug:

Quote from Hyperactive :

I guess I was expecting this "major rewrite"

It sounds to me like a major rewrite. More of the engine/transmission elements are now synthesized - now we got: dumpvalve (which was previously sample-based), gear whine, gear shift noises and more complex engine sounds. All synthesized in realtime. Now, in the long run, imagine this system coupled with an engine-damage simulation. No two damaged gears will sound the same.

Also, listen to that sample I had posted of how I heard U32 after being processed with realtime DSP filters - the same processing on the old soundsystem did not yield the same results because quite simply there were no underlying/"hidden" sounds to enhance.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I don't understand why, instead of making the sounds much better, you make just slight adjustments?

My guess is that because to make a sound better you have to tweak slowly, within reasonable limits and listen - over and over and over again. You cannot do that for too long with the same sound because (apart from headaches) the brain has a sort of "error correction" system that starts adapting and thus, unless you are a mutant with a natural talent for this sort of thing, you'll just get confused. It is necessarily a very lengthy process, especially if it's been done using a complex mathematical algorithm and not by twiddling knobs. Not to mention that this not only has to "sound good" but it has to accurately simulate a system.

Wow... congratulations on that nice peace of an auto updater. Never had one working so fast and without any problems. Thanks for that. (A post, not about the sound changes (because i'm very happy with them))

Greets

Quote from Scawen :

I've just released the U33 dedicated host.

This is a program for hosting only!
It is not a patch and is no use if you are not running a host!

Anyway in U33 dedicated host only, I've added some code which penalises players who use the "teleport to pits from start line" cheat to save themselves half a pitlane drive when they are on a host running the "must pit" rule.

Thanks a lot

Quote from aimbottle :

I think a car with such a strong engine shouldn't have a humming sound, even if you've got a helmet on.

just a bit of info to say all sounds in lfs are meant to be the "replica" of the sound prior to helmet. so if u wanna u use helmet while playing to get the helmet effect. sounds are done "without helmet".

Quote from BWX232 :

We still need more control over the LEVELS of ALL the different sounds.. Due to different hardware (Sound cards mainly, speakers too though) some sounds do NOT come through at all or so very quiet that you cannot hear them.

I don't agree with this... The sounds should be set to a standard "perfect" level ingame, and it's up to the user if he wants to tweak his sound system another way, not ingame. What I mean is about every soundcard nowadays comes with an equalizer, and if you adjust its settings accordingly to your hardware, you won't need to adjust any game settings.

I really appreciate the work made by Scawen.
I never do bad critics cos i know its a hard work.
But please change those car sounds.....
I think i will install CSR pack cos i cant drive (XFR) with it.
It hurt my ears lol and RPM are not adjusted with sounds i think.

Anyway, keep the good work and thanks for all the pleasure i have to drive since.....many years