Make it a server option but only for the road cars, or just do it manually amongst friends

I used to race in great "same set" races with some fellow Aussies in the XRT. The setup we all used was similar to a VN Commodore (Aussie 4-door sedan, slushy as hell) and we had to have all passenger slots filled. It made for some awesome and occasionally LMAO racing

All for it. As long as the set used was made public so practice could be possible before attempting to race 'blind'.

Quote from Davo :

All for it. As long as the set used was made public so practice could be possible before attempting to race 'blind'.

Precisely.

I have a concept for a league, but it would only work the way I want it to forced setup.

I don't like the idea of a fixed setup at all.

But someone mentioned maybe restricting the changes you can make, which I do like.
For instance, let people set up their own steering, but don't let them change gearing. Let them change suspension, but not aerodynamics.

That kind of thing would lend itself well to close stock racing, but allow enough customisation that they could still drive comfortably.

+1.

I don't like the idea, and I will not use it if it is available.

But I would not really mind if it would be there, although there should, as mentioned before, only be certain aspects forced, so that people can adjust the things necessary to suit their controller. Unless of course it means I have less and less servers to choose from if this, God forbids, becomes popular... (which I douby honestly)

I don't think this makes for a fair chance for every driver at all, it is indeed all about which setup suits which driving style.

so on the whole; -1

It's been suggested and discussed to death in the past, but.....

I don't care either way about forced setups. It would be interesting to do, but as others have said, you still need to be able to adjust brakes and maybe some steering. For example, if I was forced to use 1900 nm brakes in the FZR, I would wipe everyone out going into T1 driving straight through even though I'm on the brakes as hard as I can. Thus, if my 3000 nm brakes were forced on others, probably everyone would have blown tires within 3 braking zones, LOL.

One thing about the comments that forced setups would "suit one driver over another". I like my setup moderately loose with just a little bit of throttle rotation, and much lower diff lock than you see with the aliens. I've noticed that if I try someone elses set that may be much more understeery (tight in American terms), then I can still come close to running my PB after a few laps. I may not like it, but I can use it. But if I get a really loose set, ie, some of the inferno sets, then they are impossible to drive without some tweaking.

My point being, forced setups would more than likely be a more neutral set that everyone would still be able to drive. Those who like loose, would not be at much of a handicap because it is now neutral. The other way around, with a very loose handling forced set, then those who don't drive loose would be at a big disadvantage with what they would consider an undrivable car.

Quote from sinbad :

Certain things, steering lock and brake force for example, are very controller dependant, so the option to adjust those should never be removed whatever else is added (imo).

BUT...I like the idea of fixed setup racing. Wouldn't it be fun to race the road-cars with road-car setups for a change? Screw laptimes It would (almost) be like having a whole extra garage of cars to use. If I can't adjust my driving to fit the car as quickly/well as you can, then you're better in that car than I am, simple as that.

Only mature response

Quote from wark :

Only mature response

Well you just made about 26 new friends in a hurry.

Quote from jtr99 :

Well you just made about 26 new friends in a hurry.

and one bestest friend for ever!
Unless he was being sarcastic, which I actually assumed was the case

Quote from jtr99 :

+1.

I think this option worked extremely well in NR2003 and I don't see why it wouldn't work in LFS. I agree with Sinbad that you would probably want to exempt a few settings from the "fixed" condition, such as brake pressure and max wheel turn settings, but I think the principle of a level playing field (as an option, of course) is great.

+1 for the Option to fix the setup. It's actually pretty fun and can produce great Races as we know from other Sims.

I agree that there are different drivers and you can't really tell everyone to use the same setup, but I think forcing to the 'standard' or 'hard race' sets should be possible. Those are ones everyone has, and everyone has used. It's not the same as if someone would force a set no one has seen and only allows 5 minutes of practice on it...we can all practice on it as much as we want and would know what to expect.

I like the suggestion from thisnameistaken as well. If not fixing setups, then restricting setups would be a good option. Aero, gearing, and tires are restricted in a lot of professional series, and I think it'd be good to include those restrictions.

More than completely similar setups (which I would not mind so much), I'd prefer to see [i]realistic[/] quantities of change to values for each setting, so we'd have e.g. 3 pre-determined ones (understeery, more-or-less-neutral--oversteery) and stuff..

Quote from frenchy0204 :

naaah, i dont like this idea, i have a lovely setup for the fxr which makes the car handle like a absolute beauty and compared to the standard setup (standard, hard track etc.) i personally find horrible.

i do agree with that one guy saying that the host should have an option to pick whether everyone has the same setup though, thats a good idea

Why the f**k would you need an FXR setup when you are a demo racer?. And how would you know it would drive well and find [hard track] horrible.

Is this time for box of matches and banana?

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I was thinking more along the lines of what's realistic in terms of what would require fitting a different part to the car. Gear ratio limitations have been discussed before, perhaps being uneditable in the lesser road cars, while only having a limited number of different gears available for the race cars and the racier road cars. On the other hand, dampers should probably still be quite fine-tunable in all the cars (assuming they're all supposed to be track-prepared to some degree).

Precisely.

3 for UXGTR, 5 sets of ratios in FOX and GTRs, 7 in FO8 and take 1 dp off the adjustability for BF1 - and none for the rest.

YES, I would love to see some default setup servers out there

It might just fill the *massive* void for the newbies (like me) between newbie and competent driver

I dont care if its only division 1 (or 2 or 3.. lol) and not the Premership!!

Myself, knowing i will never be as good a driver as probably 99% of yous, would probably play mostly one of these, safe in the knowledge that most of the other peeps playing there are all possibly noobs too only then, when i (or we?) feel confident enough to enter a server with the pro's and hopefully not get vote, vote kicked or vote, vote, banned because we havent trimmed this/ that by 2mm, lol


just my tuppence
QD (the bloke who got vote, vote, banned in July from 3 servers in a row for no fault of his own and has been terrified to play online ever since !!!!)


ps. I know this will not appeal for most / all of you's because your at proffesional level, you most likely have your setups already and have ample knowlege of them, but i don't. and i'm sure i am not the only one. quite frankly, i was prepared to buy this game and run on default setups as tweaking sets is really not my thing ( i love LFS that much ). to not enable such a thing is nothing short of commercial disaster or at least its a big hole where new people are dropping off... (out)

in short, enable server admins the ability to host default set only servers, and i will host my own server. all i ask is that when you join you join with respect for the new and be helpul - offer tips etc and be happy to chill as it wont be the premier league like 99% of servers atm are!!!! lol :hippy:

it would not be fair to mention AI atm as LFS is still after all in beta stages (eagerly awaiting all improvements, lol) just to say between the bots and the bans the gap for newbies the jump is just way toooooo g'ddam big !!! :ices_rofl

:noob:

aps. I don't care how bad my set is, I am not BEGGING a set off anybody
(however, if your offering, i'm sure i'll be very pleased, lmao.....)

Quote from jtr99 :

I think this option worked extremely well in NR2003 and I don't see why it wouldn't work in LFS.

NASCAR is mostly ovals, so that comparasion is not very good. In ovals the setup can be the same with everyone because in oval racing there is pretty much only one fast way of getting round the track. On track racing it's different, there are many ways of getting around corners. Different people like different styles and people are fastest with the style they find that suits them best.

Anyway THE DRIVER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SETUP. A bad driver can't get around the track fast even if he has the best setup in the world and good driver can get around fast even if he has a bad setup. Sure it gives a little benefit to have good setup. But best results are had when the driver is good and the setup suits the driver.
And car setups shouldn't be a problem to anyone, there are lots of setups in inferno's setupfield, there is probably a good setup for everyone in there at most you have to do a little tweaking to make it better suited for you. Also there are guides for setup making too, so if you want to do it all by yourself you should be able to do that too.

I am against this suggestion, because it really does not change anything anyway. Biggest of the problems is that how could the forced setup be chosen? I can think of no way it could be chosen so it wouldn't be benefical to others and disadvantage for others.

Either way: Fast drivers will be fast and slow drivers will be slow.

The only problem I see with a system like this is that every drivers has a different style of driving. There for some level of personalization should be implimented to allow for the car to be tweaked to some small degree.

The best compromise would be to allow only a few adjustments. I would thing that at the very minimum tire pressure shoudl still be adjustale. I think a better option would be to allow the server opperator to optionaly predetermine some settings and then lock out their adjustment. Things like gear ratios, spring, damper and ARB rates, camber and toe angles would realisticly be somthing that is restricted in orginised "stock" class racing.

A class system then restrics the level of car adjustability would be interesting to see implimented in the future.

It's not an attempt to level any playing field, everybody already has access to good, winning setups, there's no uneven playing to level-off. Also I don't see how people having different styles makes this suggestion bad either. That would be like saying a one make front-engine rwd class would be unfair to people with a mid-engine rwd driving style.
If someone gave you the chance to race a standard (unadjustable) Nissan 350z against 14 others for a season, would you complain that it was unfair because your driving style doesn't suit it? If you won would you say it was only because your style did suit it?
Setup isn't everything, we all know that, but putting everyone on the grid with the same basic "stock" roadcar would be a really nice change from the rather "racing-car-esque" setups everybody is using at the moment, and we would see not whose style fits it best, but whose driving-style is most adaptable to that car, because nobody would be used to an LFS road car which actually pitches and rolls a bit (IMO)

Thats true sinbad.

So long as the set is a little forgiving with a ballanced performance and handeling feel then I see no reason it would not work. The Default, Race, and Race_S setups are not a good example. Btu the diffacult part is in defigning a set that is useable by all and not favoring any one style of driving over another.

i can set up a car to a certain point, but im not able to master it. i always looka t other pople setups to determine mine or i just use thiers. this way i can be wuick.

i tend to find after a few runs i can easily adapt to a set up, whether its fast or not, i find i can get the most out of it to my limits, whilst learning other characteristics like the track and the car itself.

i would welconme this idea with open arms simply because of the people who spend hours or the teasm that have the fastest sets, that dont share. this makes it almost impossible for us drivers who dont have as good understanding of how to set a car up, to be quick.

the default thing imo, after a few runs or however long you take, everyone wil et used to the set eventually.

Quote from spsamsp :

The host should be able to choose whether they want this option implimented on their server or not... That's my opinion

+1=fun!

Kieran20,

I would highly recomend taking the time to learn how to setup the cars in LFS. Having the knowlage is work more then just the ability to setup your own car. Knowing why a car does what it does can also help you drive better, teach you how to make the car do what you want, etc. As en example both brakes & throttle or the combied use of both can cause either oversteer, understeer in the right situations or be used to stabilize the car, or destabilize it. While a set will go a long way to improving your speed and times it will only get you so far. The understanding what the car is doing and why, combined with the ability to use that knowlage is what allows you to extrack all the avalable performance out of any given set.

I agree with Gimpster there. When I started with LFS, I had no idea how to set up the car. Sure, I could understand the rollbars and wing downforce, and that is where I started tweaking. Then as time wore on, I learned about and started messing around with the damper settings. During this time, I also learned how to drive a RWD properly for faster times (ie, loose, which Gimpster was one of the first to help me out with that a long time ago).

I can't just start out with the default set and start tweaking, but use either Inferno or one of the many sets I've aquired from others and tweak. Eventually, you get to the point where you totally understand exactly how you want the car to behave in a certain corner, and can tweak it to your liking.

For me, it was/is a long process in learning how to set up the car. I'm still learning. It use to be, I would aquire a set and see locked differentials. I would immediately change to a low clutch diff setting and tweak in other areas. I'm now going through most of my sets as I race and now tweaking the differentials to suit how I want the car to behave, both on and off the throttle. For example, at Westhill in the FZR, I have a very early turn-in and very early back on full throttle. The problem with my style there is pushing out into the grass, even with a fairly loose setup. Working with the differential locks, I can make the car rotate either on or off throttle precisely how I want it to. Now, I have the car rotating past the apex to where I am pointing perfectly straight against the curbs with minimal steering wheel input. It's turning completely with the throttle. If I have to let off the throttle for some reason, then the coast lock of the diff takes care of the rotation.

Not that this has anything to do with the "same setup" option as discussed by many, as I don't think "same setup" has anything to do with being competetive with faster drivers. The reason for the option is just for another option to have fun with in league/team/private/even public racing. I just wanted to post this from all the "I don't know how to set up the car" posts. To learn about car setup is very rewarding when you are running a car that suits YOU and not one that suits someone else.

I honestly had no idea I had that much impact on you. Its nice to know my time spent trying to share my knowlage while in GURU had a positive impact.