Something happened to me today on, of all places, the STCC server...as we have all come to realise, there is some fun, fast, and above all competitive racing to be had there.
However, it is ALSO a place where the occasional(?) n00b will dive on and try and race...fair play, they got to learn... Well, I was following this guy around FE Green earlier, he was a good 2-3 seconds a lap slower than even me, but he was doing a good job of defensive driving. I was sitting right on his bumper, (and getting slightly frustrated) looking for somewhere to pass him CLEANLY; when approaching the left hander at the end of the back straight, somebody dived up the inside of me, used the side of my car to slow down for the bend, pushing me into this poor n00bs bumper, which sent us BOTH spinning, and then tried blaming ME for going too slow!! illepall

As a matter of reference, when hitting the 'turn-in' point for that particular bend, I had a good 2/3rds of my car in front of his, so according to the 'Rulez' I had the right of way into that corner. I dont think he 'deliberately' rammed me, even though in the circumstances contact was unavoidable; I put it down to over-exuberance and didnt bother reporting it to the barricade...why get him banned just for being an idiot? He'll never learn if he doesnt get a chance to race properly.

Quote from Jakg :

depends - irl in Karting (rental karts, need i say more?!) when i have someone on a Blue who isn't yeilding i DO bump them, but not to spin them, just to show my anger! In LFS i might push a non-yeidling blue-flagger out of the way, but only by going up the inside, and pushing their nose wide at the Apex, but nothing more as that IS (to me at least) wrecking

Karting, let alone rental karts cannot be applied to car racing because obviously there is almost no danger involved in rental karts and they're built to withstand contact.

In an MSA karting event you'd most likely if seen by the clerk of the course receive a warning for bumping another driver. I got one for hitting the same driver twice on the exit of a corner even though it was by accident because he had poor speed out of the corners.

I hate it when people spam blue flag get out my way all over the place. No one is obliged to dive off the track or pull over for you. They are only obliged to yield at an appropriate time. If I join a race mid-race I'll usually let the pack past if they happen to catch me while I get up to speed. If they start spamming then I'll hang on and most of the time I can eventually pull away but if not I'll just let them slip up the inside hopefully costing them time to a following driver without directly hampering them. Usually at the end of the race I'll tell the spamming driver I have no obligation to get out of your way.

I never spam blue flag across the screen and I've lost countless races because of back markers but that's just tough luck. I've also won races because of backmarkers so it swings both ways. They get a big BLUE FLAG message on there screen if they are not taking notice of that they aren't going to take notice of the messages.

Keiran

depends on the situation
if the driver is dangerous, then ill fire him wide, and he can carry on with no damage.

if the driver in 2nd place is MILES behind, then ill pass the backmarker clean

if the driver in 2nd is close, then ill fire the backmarker wide and he can carry on with no damage


i probably wouldnt bin him into the wall unless he was swerving

Putting crazy pressure on someone and letting off just before a tigh combination of bends works wonders.

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

if the driver in 2nd is close, then ill fire the backmarker wide and he can carry on with no damage

Why would you do that? It can't be to your advantage to open the gap for your opponent too. Better to slow the pace down, pass the backmarker when it suits you (ie. before a complex of corners where it'll be difficult for your opponent to follow immediately), and ... with a bit of luck ... 2nd place won't be so close to your tail anymore.

This is the trouble with LFS pick-up races. Most are just a series of hotlaps strung together in the hope of getting to the finish first.

nah i aint a hotlapper type, although many are. i could count the decent, smart RACERS ive met in LFS on 1 hand;

• quicksilver
  
• nikimere
  
• arrechee
  
• tristancliffe

but, if sum1 is holding me up in a silly way by not moving when they should and 2nd place is catching then id push them wide to pass, and maybe they will come back on infront of 2nd place. thats if they were weaving which is a totally illegitimate tactic. worse than firing.
but its rare that i cant pass people anyway, specially a backmarker.

there is benefits to your tactic for sure, and ive done that a few times

Never, ever bump anyone (n00b, experienced racer or Alien) on purpose, is all I can say. That's wrecking and nothing justifies it. Period.

(Geez, it always amazes me that there are so many people around thinking they actually have the "right" to wreck for whatever reason illepall.)

Quote from nihil :

Why would you do that?

he thinks he can get away with any sort of unfair driving

Geez.. if someone did that on my shift, they wouldn't be welcome back. If you can't gain position by earning it fairly - or if you would actually choose to neglect doing so - then you're simply not the kind of driver that I want in the server. I'm quite sure you must be joking.. I can't believe you're saying "ban me, I'm dirty" and meaning it.

A small minority of fast" drivers" believe its win at ANY cost, taking out a slower driver.. NP.

I respect many racers as well, driving fast laps is a small part of it, its the way they treat others on the track, they pass when its safe, they back off even though they are far faster than there oppenent

They do it the hard way.

As one member already identified, there is a huge difference between accidental contact and deliberate contact. Please don't report every incident to the wrecker barricade, it is designed to weed out those racers who intentionally ruin the races of others, it isn't there to report every tap and bump which are a natural part of racing.

Many people are on a steep learning curve so use some empathy please. It is usually a simple matter to determine who has made an error and who has deliberately hunted another racer maliciously.

In this community we usually refer to a "wrecker" as being a person who is deliberately making contact (often repeatedly) in order to ruin another's race or to illegally gain positions. So let's please not muddy the waters by branding every mistake as an act of wrecking or calling every rookie a wrecker just because they are still learning.

The barricade was not set up as an avenue for personal revenge, it is there to generally protect the racing environment by discouraging deliberate bad behaviour and preventing proven offenders from connecting to barricaded servers. Common sense, patience, and empathy are the best tools you can use in these situations.

There is a big difference between an intentional wrecker, some guy who's just oblivious to everything that's going on outside his car, and your average 'noob'. Most people, no matter what their skill level, really want to do better.

Unfortunatly, you often get 2, 3, or 4 faster drivers who are intent on beating each other, and when a lesser skilled driver interrupts their race, they get really abusive.

The best thing for the game (your game, in the long run), is to try to help people out, and explain where they are going wrong. It takes patience, and not everyone will listen, so move on if that's the case.

A lot of times, if you spec and watch people you are sure have just ruined your race intentionally, you'll see they really have their hands full, and are trying to deal with their car the best they can.

Everyone was in that position, to some degree, at some point ( whether they care to remember it) and more than likely benefited from some friendly advice.

I doubt very many people improve from being pushed around and shouted at.

I'd rather improve the pool of drivers available to race with, than clean the tracks of anyone who can't match my pb.

Im sick of slower drivers who know they're going to get overtaken and insist on pulling over into your lane to get you to back off.

Blue flag or not they feel its their god given right todo so, and if by any luck you do get past them be sure to keep a good eye out on the next corner because they'll attack you like no mother.

Join a well populated server and even if you're the most careful and forgiving driver you'll get to a point where you really dont care what happens to the slower driver.


Still I enjoying passing people where its really difficult todo so, and I try to make it look good! There's no fun in being overtaken, but I like to put on a show

Bottom line if you're faster and you cause an accident when overtaking, then its your fault even if he spanks you mid corner.

@Gunn, absolutely! The barriade isn't intended for anyone except persistent and deliberate wreckers.. people who actively seek to wreck the races of others. These are a rare breed indeed, thankfully.

Over time we've received a great many reports. Some of them about real, foul wreckers and some of them from agitated or infuriated people, simply upset about racing accidents. We've even had one from a wrecker, so proud of his own wrecking that he posted a replay of it to the barricade himself. Tonight, on the STCC reporting system, someone had had such a good battle with another driver that he felt compelled to share.. and that one was a pleasure of a report to receive, and a great battle it was

One of the largely unseen benefits of the barricade is simply the knowledge that it's there if you need it. Often this is enough to diffuse the fury. All said, I don't personally, mind the occasional ranting report if a driver is suitably maddened by the actions of another driver. If it makes someone feel better.. but barricaders won't ever ban just because someone is reported. As has been said, we're really just looking for the career morons.

I always start off giving everyone plenty of room and respect. Over the course of a few races, you sometimes see a particular driver using the Braille method of passing. I'm not going to try to wreck him, or even nudge him, but I'm going to turn up my aggression a notch when racing that one guy.

I`d never let them eat the wall or mow the lawn, even if they were acting like a total arse. If they`re well out of control, I`ll try my best to stay out their way, then pass when it`s possible. It`s a beneficial experience, and avoiding running into anyone from behind should really be the no.1 rule of online motorsports before "I will win"

It`s just not in me to deliberately run someone off the track, and when I do play I`m usually on my own server anyway so any idiots deliberately being idiots, get kicked/banned depending on the severity. Anyone who doesn`t really know what they`re doing, I`ll always try and help out and keep things as friendly as possible.

I just think a large proportion of people playing racing games vastly underestimate the effect that nudging, flaming, or otherwise hassling noobs just for being inexperienced has on them, and their desire to play online again.

I personally see it as a racing challenge. Try to pass him, if not, learn his moves and pass later. If he slows me down, so what, I drive defensively now, again, a racing challenge. We are all here for fun, no need to make other ppl swear at u.

Also, if he is bit reluctante after a while, I will use the horn and flash my light, thats what they are in the game for....Not that I use them often...

tbh i race fairly, but last year or so , more and more i see the "new" generation (not just in LFS) having 0 respect, so if im passing and they decide to tighten their line (9/10 this is the case) I WILL widen mine.

So i guess my vote lies with "eat wall" , I`m sick to death of political correctness.

Quote from ayrton senna 87 :

nah i aint a hotlapper type, although many are. i could count the decent, smart RACERS ive met in LFS on 1 hand;

• quicksilver
  
• nikimere
  
• arrechee
  
• tristancliffe

that's only because you haven't raced with a lot of other people, and by the way, listing arrechee there must be a mistake. calling someone smart who after disconnecting rejoins the at that time most prominent league race and tries to ram off some other drivers in the race, sounds a bit...strange to say the least.

I had some bad moves in the past, but I never wrecked anyone intentionally ,and now the only thing I am aiming for on the race track is a clean pass and a good battle.

Quote from Gunn :

Common sense, patience, and empathy are the best tools you can use in these situations.

And the replay facility.... Its an instant palliative to most situations if you review the incident from the other drivers point of view (or from above). On more than one occasion I've played back an incident that I was certain was the result of poor judgement from another driver, only to witness my own limitations written just as large

Quote :

And the replay facility.... Its an instant palliative to most situations if you review the incident from the other drivers point of view (or from above). On more than one occasion I've played back an incident that I was certain was the result of poor judgement from another driver, only to witness my own limitations written just as large

Same here . plus it can be educational watching replays and when there was good racing they're a geniune pleasure to watch at the end of the day with my mug of Horlicks with added prozac

Its funny how people that constantly are bumping other people in corners, not giving room into a turn when the other one have his whole car on the side of his car, and constantly are trying overtakings even though he no way in hell can get his car up to the other ones back tires before the turn in, even using horns on people that aren't letting him through even though they both are fighting for the position. Can sit here and claim that he isn't pushing anyone off, unless its an "extreme" situation.

haha, yeah, its funny. Not!

I hate people that are very fast, but can't race properly, even more when they are claiming that they dosen't do anything wrong. Hypocrite.

Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :

I`m sick to death of political correctness.

'King makes me laugh everytime I hear that phrase.... Its become the worldwide euphemism for "I'm a miserable old git who has given up, because its all become too complicated for me."

Unless you both are using the Pitspotter mod and know exactly where the other person is (ie, you are told when you are clear), under no circumstance should you NOT be leaving room in the corners. This is close racing and what it's all about. We have a tool (pitspotter) available to all to let us know if someone is next to us, so I don't go by any rules where you must let off in the corner if being passed. The only rule that applies is that you leave room for the other car to make the corner. I use pitspotter. I leave room at the corner entry, apex, and exit no matter if I'm making a pass or getting passed. That is what it's all about folks, good clean racing. I don't care if you are slower than me and I'm stuck behind you. I will make attempt after attempt to get by, but if I can't, it's just tough. That is racing. Side by side through the corners is where the fun is. And it is possible as well. I've had plenty of side by side through every corner for an entire lap and more. This was with demo players, at that.

This topic is about bumping NOT someone under blue flag conditions but bumping someone off in general. Bumping someone intentionally whether they are slower than you or not is strictly uncalled for.