No the physics aren't complete, tbh i don't think they changed much from the gMotor1 days they were just updated, thats maybe just the way i felt it. It may not have been released in stages but there were at least 3-4 big updates throughout the 2 years and a few more smaller ones. the next product will be based on everything learnt from rFactor, that hardly deems it completely useless?
No the physics aren't complete, tbh i don't think they changed much from the gMotor1 days they were just updated, thats maybe just the way i felt it. It may not have been released in stages but there were at least 3-4 big updates throughout the 2 years and a few more smaller ones. the next product will be based on everything learnt from rFactor, that hardly deems it completely useless?
Well, what I'm trying to get at is that if you bought LFS S1, you bought the content. Even if you didn't upgrade to S2, you still get all the updates from S2 with the exception of the content, right? (beginning to doubt myself as I write this).
Well lets only hope they learn from their mistakes =) There is alot of ground they need to catch up on when you compair LFS physics to Rsucktor.
Yup your right, i think that is an amazing way (tried to think of a better phrase but failed) to do things. What ISI have done is develop new ideas, methods and content in rFactor which no doubt will be included in a new product, thats not much different. This was a platform for them to learn free of EA or contracts.
I just can't help it but laugh really hard.. 
The things that we (LFS fans) always mentioned that are wrong with ISI physics, the FFB, the physics, the tires, the floaty feel, and were always acused as being blind fanboys, and how we don't know jack sh*t of what we are talking about and how we haven't drive a real car ever, etc..
that's the exact things that rF fanboys are saying that should be improved in the next version in this thread when the main developer asked them to speak freely at last.. 
.
So who was crazy all this time..
The things that we (LFS fans) always mentioned that are wrong with ISI physics, the FFB, the physics, the tires, the floaty feel, and were always acused as being blind fanboys, and how we don't know jack sh*t of what we are talking about and how we haven't drive a real car ever, etc..
that's the exact things that rF fanboys are saying that should be improved in the next version in this thread when the main developer asked them to speak freely at last..
. So who was crazy all this time..
Yes your right and i hope they do, the way the suspension and tyres work in LFS is unbeaten i'd say, also the way the sound is created i think thats the way to go its lovely to hear an engine which is actually being (don't know how to say it but calculated on the spot as aposed to recordings).
I cannot agree more. Using sound the way LFS does allows much more in the way of sounds. Like you said the engines sound much more alive than they do with sampled sounds. I have seen praises for RFactor, I just don't see where they are seeing such a great product.
Why do people have to mention fanboys, u get stupid people who can't see other peoples views i think thats what a fanboy is, a waiste of space. Oh yea and linking to RSC is about as useless as showing me a blank peice of paper, that place has issues.
Are you on about the sound or in general? I think why alot of people praise the sound is because, take GTR for example, if you get a straight recording from an expert in a car studio it can sound amazing and clean, but it just can't sound real when it comes to engine strain things like that, just those lovely moments when the revs dip and you can hear that through the exhaust notes.
funny how some fanboy/super moderator on RSC is stating "visual tyre deformation" as the only thing that LFS has over rFactor... (because ofcourse besides the tyre deformation, the rF tyre model is completely on par with LFS'... 
illepall )
If someone makes an (often relevant) comparison regarding a certain feature/aspect between rF and LFS over at RSC, you're automatically labeled a fanboy and you are "kindly" referred to "your own forum" because only discussion about rF and nothing else is allowed. And here we have a super moderator being the first one to start about LFS.
My god, why do I even check that forum every month or so, just a bunch of hypocrites over there.
illepall )If someone makes an (often relevant) comparison regarding a certain feature/aspect between rF and LFS over at RSC, you're automatically labeled a fanboy and you are "kindly" referred to "your own forum" because only discussion about rF and nothing else is allowed. And here we have a super moderator being the first one to start about LFS.
My god, why do I even check that forum every month or so, just a bunch of hypocrites over there.
Fanboys are people who BLINDLY believe in something, in something that people kept telling them it is wrong, but didn't wanna hear it, but when the developer asks them, it's a different story..
Just in general I think everything Rfactor does is just not good. Graphics are decent but nothing to write home about, looks more like a mod to GTA to me with ti's super smoothing or whatever it is. The sound is decent but cannot beat LFS sounds just because of the way LFS does them. Like you said on throttle transitions you cannot beat LFS sounds because a sampled sound cannot replicate the strains made by an engine like that. The physics for Rfactor are appaling it was like driving Outrun2006 on steriods. Talk about an arcade feeling. Granted I did not play it that long but at least GTR attempted to make a good physics and FF effects.
I stay away from RSC. There is no love for LFS on there at all =)
At the risk of being stomped on, and it's very much an aside, I rather got the impression that the physical environment of rF was moddable anyway.
You can create/mod tyres that stick to the road outside of physical possibilities, engines that are weightless, weight-distribution that itself defies logical confines of materials currently available to mankind, and all-sorts. The burden of physical constraint is on the modders, to themselves produce a mod which is convincingly realistic and thus attract downloaders of their mods that way, rather than be bound by a physical environment within which their mod resides.
I've never attempted a mod in rF (I've actually only attempted to INSTALL it once, and that didn't actually go too well either), and it's just what I've picked up on while reading threads, primarily in the LFS forum, but that was the impression I was left with. Feel free to correct, rather than flame, if I'm wrong
You can create/mod tyres that stick to the road outside of physical possibilities, engines that are weightless, weight-distribution that itself defies logical confines of materials currently available to mankind, and all-sorts. The burden of physical constraint is on the modders, to themselves produce a mod which is convincingly realistic and thus attract downloaders of their mods that way, rather than be bound by a physical environment within which their mod resides.
I've never attempted a mod in rF (I've actually only attempted to INSTALL it once, and that didn't actually go too well either), and it's just what I've picked up on while reading threads, primarily in the LFS forum, but that was the impression I was left with. Feel free to correct, rather than flame, if I'm wrong
So what your saying Sam is that the Devs of Rfactor didn't want to spend the time tweaking so they handed it over to potentially a 14 year old kid wanting to make spaceships that stick to a racetrack. Something like FZero maybe? =P
Sounds like to me that the devs didn't want to spend the time tweaking a really good game, gave up and told everyone here is some code make it yourself.
Sounds like to me that the devs didn't want to spend the time tweaking a really good game, gave up and told everyone here is some code make it yourself.
Umm... err... mebbe? LOL! I don't honestly know.. but yes, that's essentially the impression I got, yep! 
[eeedit].. basically, this is the separation that I perceive between LFS and other sims. The physical environment of LFS is intended to mimick real-life physics. The future moddability (new word? Call the OUP!) of LFS would be dependent on constraints of physical possibilities only. IF LFS becomes moddable, the mod would be limited in that its content would never be able to fold space or manipulate gravity, to compensate for or mask some flaw in the mod's code. Materials used in the construction of vehicles, for example, would be controlled by and limited by the LFS environment. If 0.5mm-thick 12gsm alloys cannot withstand 100mph impacts in real-life, they shall not withstand those impacts in LFS, and won't make good materials to build entire cars from in LFS. Just as an example.
[eeedit].. basically, this is the separation that I perceive between LFS and other sims. The physical environment of LFS is intended to mimick real-life physics. The future moddability (new word? Call the OUP!
) of LFS would be dependent on constraints of physical possibilities only. IF LFS becomes moddable, the mod would be limited in that its content would never be able to fold space or manipulate gravity, to compensate for or mask some flaw in the mod's code. Materials used in the construction of vehicles, for example, would be controlled by and limited by the LFS environment. If 0.5mm-thick 12gsm alloys cannot withstand 100mph impacts in real-life, they shall not withstand those impacts in LFS, and won't make good materials to build entire cars from in LFS. Just as an example.I was saying that the concept of nK would be far better suited to online play than rF, note the execution was a different story
GTR is a mod for rF they both use identical game engines the only difference is SimBin have added whether and somehow slow it down to a crawl on my PC. The reason you prefer the FF in GTR will be because it has had more time spent on it than most mods and the reason for the physics is that SimBin boosted tire grip levels unrealistically to compensate for the lack of feel
I usually stay afay from such kind of discussions, but this time decided to join. I'm not going to fight to the death defending rFactor or bashing LFS. I have both games, like many people here and "there" (on rFactor forums) and I got my part of fun from both games. I also played most other autosim-games, including GPL, Nascar 2003 Season with mods, GTR/GTR2/GTL, netKar, RBR, so, I have some references to compare with.
I used to play LFS around mid 2005 till spring 2006. That was great. Really. I missed many things in the game, but I enjoyed playing the game (participated in leagues as well as in pickup-races), and never joined/started topics like "I'm paying for an unfinished product", though I was disappointed that some features wasn't implemented and wasn't even on the to-do list. I agreed that I'm buying "alpha", but that's not the case. I bought a game and I compared it with alternatives on the market. I didn't like playing with this "alpha" word when talking about LFS that time, and I don't like when people take use it as a "shield" now, especially considered we don't know what (and when) will be available in S2 full. But nevermind, let's move on.
So some things I didn't like about LFS.
- no false starts. Just put in 1st gear, press throttle and wait for green. Arcade. No excuses. Easy fix, JTbo?
Yes, but 1.5 years passed, and it's still there. For some reason Scawen decided to left the thing this way.
- damage. wheel4hummer mentioned he hit walls many times while playing rFactor on a show and the car wasn't damaged. Was it hard to suppose that the game on a show could be (and most probably was) set to "damage off"? I can assure you that in most mods in rFactor collisions will affect your car quite much. If you wish, of course - it's adjustable.
Now back to LFS. If you ask me, the damage in LFS very far away from being realistic. Just take a V8, for example, and drive it to a wall @full speed at 90deg. angle. Very nice visualisation. But nothing changed in car's behaviour. Arcade again. And damage isn't adjustable, so no way to get rid out of it. After this, don't tell me about rFactor having problems with damage. It has, of curse, but compared to this, they're just close to being non-existent
- tracks. I always missed different tracks. Preferrable, real-life tracks. But all LFS could offer me 1.5 years ago (nothing changed since then) is 6 tracks (with a few layouts each).
These are the main reasons why I moved to rFactor at that time. I was a bit afraid I will meet that "feeling" problem with rFactor, but I didn't
I love rFactor since then and find it has more features I need, but I also still see LFS as a very good simulator. I could point out (and do it, when asked, and sometimes when not which flaws LFS has. I still see many advantages in LFS over rFactor or GTR2 or any other sim. I think LFS and rFactor are too different to compare. They're just from differend worlds and are for differend purposes.
Mods made all sales for rFactor? Yeah. That is what rFactor was intended for. That was a plan ISI stated this form the beginning. But anyway, who cares? Only those who has limited access to Internet. All other just download the mods they like and play. They don't care who did it - ISI or modders. ISI gives modders very good support, modders give rFactor support by making mods. Users buy rFactor because of mods. Everyone is happy.
ZORER
I wouldn't like lfs being moddable except car visuals. I mean the only moddable thing should be the car's look so we can make our own cars.(not the specs of the cars). Because if LFS becomes moddable, there will be hundereds of idiot tracks and non-accurate cars around and will be hard to find a proper server to make a real race...
Along with "hundreds of idiotic tracks" there would be dozens of masterpieces. But you're wrong about idiotic tracks anyway - it takes pretty much knowledge to make a track, and if you possess this knowledge, you won't make idiotic track. OK, some will do, but rarely. I'm not sure if it's fair to give links to rF stuff here, but I hope, yes. Anyone who is interested, can check the rFactor Central to see "idiotic tracks". There is lots of very good tracks, most of them are. And along with very good, there is masterpieces Nordschleife or Bathurst.
By the way, many tracks in rFactor are multy-layout too
So generally I don't think modding is bad. Yes, there is some side-effects, but generally I think modding is a good thing. And in case of rFactor you can easily find out which mod is good, and which is not so good - just check Hall of Fame on the rFactor Central, where 99% of ever-made mods and tracks and utils for rFactor are available
Viper93
I put Rfactor on my computer. I promtly deleted it. thats not me being a fanboy, thats how crap it was. I was driving STRAIT and it felt like I was in a full fledged tires squeeling corner for how much steering wheel pull I was getting
Nothing personal, but this is just an immature post. I just hope you knew you had to tune up something and just was lazy to do it. You should understand that the game can't behave this way. In your case it, the problem was, most probably, a "feature" of ISI games, where for all Logitech wheels (and some others) you should set FF effects strength to negative value.
The post is getting a bit long, so here is the conclusion:
Guys, stop bashing other sims, be it rFactor, GTR2 or something else. All sims have their weak and strong sides and all sims could be much better, if someone put more effort into it. I find it insulting, to say "rFactor is unfinished product". Yes, it has it's flaws. Which sim doesn't? LFS has it's strong sides, rFactor has it's. Both games lack some features. GTR2 also. And all are priced around the same. Yes, LFS is called "alpha". If you're happy to say "it's alpha, someday I'll get more features for free because Scawen still supports LFS". Yes, someday S2 will be finished and will have more features, then things will change, but now it has no many desired things and I'm not sure if (and when) S2 finished will have rain and day/night and live track and more realistic damage and realistic tracks and and tire punctures because of a debris of another car and many other stuff like weight penalties, grid edition, private qualifying, pace car. In case it will have, my S2 license is still with me :P But now all this is already available in rFactor (except for Live Track and rain).
Live in peace. Think positive or, at least, constructive.
I used to play LFS around mid 2005 till spring 2006. That was great. Really. I missed many things in the game, but I enjoyed playing the game (participated in leagues as well as in pickup-races), and never joined/started topics like "I'm paying for an unfinished product", though I was disappointed that some features wasn't implemented and wasn't even on the to-do list. I agreed that I'm buying "alpha", but that's not the case. I bought a game and I compared it with alternatives on the market. I didn't like playing with this "alpha" word when talking about LFS that time, and I don't like when people take use it as a "shield" now, especially considered we don't know what (and when) will be available in S2 full. But nevermind, let's move on.
So some things I didn't like about LFS.
- no false starts. Just put in 1st gear, press throttle and wait for green. Arcade. No excuses. Easy fix, JTbo?
Yes, but 1.5 years passed, and it's still there. For some reason Scawen decided to left the thing this way.- damage. wheel4hummer mentioned he hit walls many times while playing rFactor on a show and the car wasn't damaged. Was it hard to suppose that the game on a show could be (and most probably was) set to "damage off"? I can assure you that in most mods in rFactor collisions will affect your car quite much. If you wish, of course - it's adjustable.
Now back to LFS. If you ask me, the damage in LFS very far away from being realistic. Just take a V8, for example, and drive it to a wall @full speed at 90deg. angle. Very nice visualisation. But nothing changed in car's behaviour. Arcade again. And damage isn't adjustable, so no way to get rid out of it. After this, don't tell me about rFactor having problems with damage. It has, of curse, but compared to this, they're just close to being non-existent
- tracks. I always missed different tracks. Preferrable, real-life tracks. But all LFS could offer me 1.5 years ago (nothing changed since then) is 6 tracks (with a few layouts each).
These are the main reasons why I moved to rFactor at that time. I was a bit afraid I will meet that "feeling" problem with rFactor, but I didn't
I love rFactor since then and find it has more features I need, but I also still see LFS as a very good simulator. I could point out (and do it, when asked, and sometimes when not
which flaws LFS has. I still see many advantages in LFS over rFactor or GTR2 or any other sim. I think LFS and rFactor are too different to compare. They're just from differend worlds and are for differend purposes.Mods made all sales for rFactor? Yeah. That is what rFactor was intended for. That was a plan
ISI stated this form the beginning. But anyway, who cares? Only those who has limited access to Internet. All other just download the mods they like and play. They don't care who did it - ISI or modders. ISI gives modders very good support, modders give rFactor support by making mods. Users buy rFactor because of mods. Everyone is happy. ZORER
I wouldn't like lfs being moddable except car visuals. I mean the only moddable thing should be the car's look so we can make our own cars.(not the specs of the cars). Because if LFS becomes moddable, there will be hundereds of idiot tracks and non-accurate cars around and will be hard to find a proper server to make a real race...
Along with "hundreds of idiotic tracks" there would be dozens of masterpieces. But you're wrong about idiotic tracks anyway - it takes pretty much knowledge to make a track, and if you possess this knowledge, you won't make idiotic track. OK, some will do, but rarely. I'm not sure if it's fair to give links to rF stuff here, but I hope, yes. Anyone who is interested, can check the rFactor Central to see "idiotic tracks". There is lots of very good tracks, most of them are. And along with very good, there is masterpieces Nordschleife or Bathurst.
By the way, many tracks in rFactor are multy-layout too
So generally I don't think modding is bad. Yes, there is some side-effects, but generally I think modding is a good thing. And in case of rFactor you can easily find out which mod is good, and which is not so good - just check Hall of Fame on the rFactor Central, where 99% of ever-made mods and tracks and utils for rFactor are available
Viper93
I put Rfactor on my computer. I promtly deleted it. thats not me being a fanboy, thats how crap it was. I was driving STRAIT and it felt like I was in a full fledged tires squeeling corner for how much steering wheel pull I was getting
Nothing personal, but this is just an immature post. I just hope you knew you had to tune up something and just was lazy to do it. You should understand that the game can't behave this way. In your case it, the problem was, most probably, a "feature" of ISI games, where for all Logitech wheels (and some others) you should set FF effects strength to negative value.
The post is getting a bit long, so here is the conclusion:
Guys, stop bashing other sims, be it rFactor, GTR2 or something else. All sims have their weak and strong sides and all sims could be much better, if someone put more effort into it. I find it insulting, to say "rFactor is unfinished product". Yes, it has it's flaws. Which sim doesn't? LFS has it's strong sides, rFactor has it's. Both games lack some features. GTR2 also. And all are priced around the same. Yes, LFS is called "alpha". If you're happy to say "it's alpha, someday I'll get more features for free because Scawen still supports LFS". Yes, someday S2 will be finished and will have more features, then things will change, but now it has no many desired things and I'm not sure if (and when) S2 finished will have rain and day/night and live track and more realistic damage and realistic tracks and and tire punctures because of a debris of another car and many other stuff like weight penalties, grid edition, private qualifying, pace car. In case it will have, my S2 license is still with me :P But now all this is already available in rFactor (except for Live Track and rain).
Live in peace. Think positive or, at least, constructive.
Bah I can't rant even every once in a while?! =P I just think I shouldnt have to adjust anything to get the game to behave remotly like a sim.
^^Must admit I agree with all of that minus the bit about modding.
Did LFS work perfectly as your ideal sim for you the first time you opened it, it certainly didn't for me, took a lot of tweaking to get it better and it's still not right, just a lot better than anything else. Whenever I install a fresh copy of early S2 versions for Tweak/mechanik it always suprsies me how different (and crap it felt out of the box).
TBH I never have tried tweak =) I am just ranting. =P
Tires, always those tires, tires can be made rather good if used enough time to research things, rather than using those ISI default values that are not so realistic.
Force feedback is perhaps biggest issue, in respect of this floaty feeling and car behaviour talk, all others are pretty much mod makers responsibility, whatever it is ISI making mod or some fans.
I'm not rFactor fanboy, but not LFS either, I just sit between them, I like from both from very different reasons and I do critize both when there is need
Force feedback is perhaps biggest issue, in respect of this floaty feeling and car behaviour talk, all others are pretty much mod makers responsibility, whatever it is ISI making mod or some fans.
I'm not rFactor fanboy, but not LFS either, I just sit between them, I like from both from very different reasons and I do critize both when there is need
Yea your right ive stopped posting there along time ago but it is a hub for the rF community sadly. Lol rF tyre model is way behind LFS but there are good and bad things about each game, just some peaple can't understand that.
I guess that's the point I was trying to make.. the LFS environment is being continually developed, and the mission is to make those "default" values the ONLY values because they're accurate simulations of physical constraints. This is the separation between LFS and other sims, and to me at least it's appealing.
Thats not strictly true, GTR used the gMotor1, and only the game engine it didn't use the graphics part of it or the on-line code part, rFactor was gMotor2 (aswell as GTL, GTR2 and RACE)
Development of rFactor is Over
(90 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG