A neverending story...
Agree with you Fisch, even if oval is not the same it was in PatchQ
. Its easier now.A neverending story...
Agree with you Fisch, even if oval is not the same it was in PatchQ
. Its easier now.
i think he is talking about the physics changes after patch Q especially the tire behavior which made it much easier to handle every single vehicle on this and any other track. I cant imagine anything else. 
Anyway, honestly i cant see the coherency of this with this particular case. But im sure if nobo has some spare time he surely will let us know about that. 
Anyway, honestly i cant see the coherency of this with this particular case. But im sure if nobo has some spare time he surely will let us know about that. to the "oval is now easier" case:
i think the oval is different with bf1 then it was with fo8. in some case easier (traction controll e.g.) in some case its more difficult (speed). but if i had the choice between fo8 and bf1 on oval, i would choose fo8 just because you need to work more for good draft and i think there were narrower fights back in the old days...
anyway i still hope the interest of GTR/Oval increases a bit for the LFSCAR series...
this might be a good point to advertise the 360lap ovla event again. we are still in lack of good drivers for the final event of the 360° racing series. and we want to have a full grid for that event. it is with FXR, pacecar and flying start.
the second season will be held witz xrr/fzr and shorter races, so this might be a good oportunitie for all gtr or oval fans to see what the can bring on the track *g*
i think the oval is different with bf1 then it was with fo8. in some case easier (traction controll e.g.) in some case its more difficult (speed). but if i had the choice between fo8 and bf1 on oval, i would choose fo8 just because you need to work more for good draft and i think there were narrower fights back in the old days...
anyway i still hope the interest of GTR/Oval increases a bit for the LFSCAR series...
this might be a good point to advertise the 360lap ovla event again. we are still in lack of good drivers for the final event of the 360° racing series. and we want to have a full grid for that event. it is with FXR, pacecar and flying start.
the second season will be held witz xrr/fzr and shorter races, so this might be a good oportunitie for all gtr or oval fans to see what the can bring on the track *g*
as much as i secretly like the oval, your races are FAR too long for me
season 2 will have an overall event length (including qualifying and sprint) of not more then 2hours. so the races are between 75 and 90 min.
i think thats a reasonable length for oval racing if you want to have at least one pitstop.
the 360 laper is just a special event of season 1, where we even have driver change allowed, so you can team up with someone else. but yes, this is an endurance race and a bit long. but thats the special thing about the 360 lapper.
so again, season will have only races of about 120 laps... but don't nail me on that number...
i think thats a reasonable length for oval racing if you want to have at least one pitstop.
the 360 laper is just a special event of season 1, where we even have driver change allowed, so you can team up with someone else. but yes, this is an endurance race and a bit long. but thats the special thing about the 360 lapper.
so again, season will have only races of about 120 laps... but don't nail me on that number...
(Vain)
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by Vain
thx vain, you are a big help... destroying someones work just by saying something like that.
i mean, watching an oval race is not that catchy you are right there, but racing in it is if you are taking it serious. it's like watching people playing cards. that is one of the most boring things in the world unless you play yourself.
one of the most boring things i've watched was the 24 hours race on gamer-fm. it was interesting in the beginning and the fact we had two teams there, but everything else was just boring. but for the drivers it was not boring at all. messing around with the slower cars and so on... so where is the point? i still think it was a great thing to have.
i mean, watching an oval race is not that catchy you are right there, but racing in it is if you are taking it serious. it's like watching people playing cards. that is one of the most boring things in the world unless you play yourself.
one of the most boring things i've watched was the 24 hours race on gamer-fm. it was interesting in the beginning and the fact we had two teams there, but everything else was just boring. but for the drivers it was not boring at all. messing around with the slower cars and so on... so where is the point? i still think it was a great thing to have.
I'm not flaming or anything, but why on earth oval racing is the most spectated racing form in the states, but really really boring in LFS?
'Cos I enjoy watching circuit racing in both, real life and LFS.
the main problem is the aero-model in lfs
1: in nascar usually the cars are much closer together (compare it with nascar 2003) so you always drive in a pack of people. in lfs the aero-model is not like it should be in real live, so people get away from the pack which is impossible in real live unless you have some other cars going with you. the aero in nascar is quite the oposite, if there are more people together they go faster then a single car. in lfs you normaly slow down if you drive in the pack. and that is the main fascination in nascar. those close fights with lot of cars in the reach of the win. (compared to a circuit track, you have 3 maximum 5 people who can win, and you can tell who those 5 are right at the start or in lfs, right after turn 1)
2: in lfs we have maximum of 20 cars on track, nascar has much more, which brings out more action. i*ve seen a nascar race from 2005 where 15 cars were in the last lap in the lead lap and had the possibility in the end to wind the race. which kind of racing can offer that kind of finish? in lfs you always have a critical amount of people on the the track. if there are less then that amount of people with the same driving skill on the track it is just like hotlapping. on the oval you need at least 16 people to have it interesting to watch. (for driving it is even fun if you have 1 other guy that is at the same speed with you)
3: lack of strategy possibilities in lfs (taped grill, resistor plates, asymmetrical tires and stuff) we only have tire wear/heat and fuel, so if the race length is not set properly all cars have to pit at the same time. if you set the race-length to something like: if someone drives slow and does not need that much fuel, he can go with a stop less. or if someone goes for one more stop but times them with possible pacecar phases so he does not loose laps he can win
4: the tracks: nascar has more then 20 tracks and therefore variety. we have two ovals (normal and reverse). which we have to customize with layouts to get variety. and the autoX which is completely flat.
5: the closest nascar like car we have is the xrr, but it isn't really like a stock car in nascar. even not when you compare it to the COT but at least it is close...
6: pacecar: there is no possibility to have that kind of stuff automated, so we are depending on a human doing that. and of course the rules in pacecar phases with single/double-file is not clear to everyone so you can't do that on a public server.
so with the lack of the proper tracks, car, aero-model and strategy possibilities it is no wonder why watching oval races in lfs is not that catchy at all.
so in conclusion to that we can't have nascar at the moment in lfs, but we can have a league which trys to get as close as possible to it. which i am trying to get running. with compromise you get a proper car, strategy and tight racing but not the same like with nascar where 30 cars driving in a huddle.
not now but maybe in the future
btw. Nascar runs circuit races as well on wattkins glen but there you have the same problem again, the top 5 of the starting grid are mostly those guys for the win. allthough the cars are almost unified. i like tight circuit racing as well. i am nowhere near the fastest one, but hey in the middle is the most action, right
1: in nascar usually the cars are much closer together (compare it with nascar 2003) so you always drive in a pack of people. in lfs the aero-model is not like it should be in real live, so people get away from the pack which is impossible in real live unless you have some other cars going with you. the aero in nascar is quite the oposite, if there are more people together they go faster then a single car. in lfs you normaly slow down if you drive in the pack. and that is the main fascination in nascar. those close fights with lot of cars in the reach of the win. (compared to a circuit track, you have 3 maximum 5 people who can win, and you can tell who those 5 are right at the start or in lfs, right after turn 1)
2: in lfs we have maximum of 20 cars on track, nascar has much more, which brings out more action. i*ve seen a nascar race from 2005 where 15 cars were in the last lap in the lead lap and had the possibility in the end to wind the race. which kind of racing can offer that kind of finish? in lfs you always have a critical amount of people on the the track. if there are less then that amount of people with the same driving skill on the track it is just like hotlapping. on the oval you need at least 16 people to have it interesting to watch. (for driving it is even fun if you have 1 other guy that is at the same speed with you)
3: lack of strategy possibilities in lfs (taped grill, resistor plates, asymmetrical tires and stuff) we only have tire wear/heat and fuel, so if the race length is not set properly all cars have to pit at the same time. if you set the race-length to something like: if someone drives slow and does not need that much fuel, he can go with a stop less. or if someone goes for one more stop but times them with possible pacecar phases so he does not loose laps he can win
4: the tracks: nascar has more then 20 tracks and therefore variety. we have two ovals (normal and reverse). which we have to customize with layouts to get variety. and the autoX which is completely flat.
5: the closest nascar like car we have is the xrr, but it isn't really like a stock car in nascar. even not when you compare it to the COT but at least it is close...
6: pacecar: there is no possibility to have that kind of stuff automated, so we are depending on a human doing that. and of course the rules in pacecar phases with single/double-file is not clear to everyone so you can't do that on a public server.
so with the lack of the proper tracks, car, aero-model and strategy possibilities it is no wonder why watching oval races in lfs is not that catchy at all.
so in conclusion to that we can't have nascar at the moment in lfs, but we can have a league which trys to get as close as possible to it. which i am trying to get running. with compromise you get a proper car, strategy and tight racing but not the same like with nascar where 30 cars driving in a huddle.
not now but maybe in the future
btw. Nascar runs circuit races as well on wattkins glen but there you have the same problem again, the top 5 of the starting grid are mostly those guys for the win. allthough the cars are almost unified. i like tight circuit racing as well. i am nowhere near the fastest one, but hey in the middle is the most action, right
(Vain)
DELETED
by Vain
I was asked to explain what is "easier" now on the oval.
Before the April/06 Patch you could easily loose the draft of one of the top racers like Plaztikman or Quietscheente in Turn3 , it was always a challenge for me in every race, even though i think i wasnt one of the worst drivers in Oval/FO8 days (36.23 HL).
Now after the April/06 Patch some things are easier now with th BF1.
-Starting + Traction Control
-staying in draft of the car in front in every turn, is now not a big deal for a medium skilled oval driver.
-that meant that medium skilled wreckers could catch up with the best and were ruining with wild lines the races of the more experienced oval drivers
-effect of tyres in longrun, in the old days T3 could give you a problem in the end of a longrun if tyres were to hot or to cold
People who had oval experience with PatchQ and earlier and have Oval experience now will know what i'm talking about! People who never went into the details of oval racing in LFS will not know (tristancliffe)
So i can only repeat the sentence Fischfix said, really liked that buddy!
another big minus for me was the increasing of bump-draft-trains after April/06 patch. That was the main reason why i lost passion in oval.
Because my race depended to much only on the skill of the person who bumped me. In a good old 2-man-draft i could help the person i drafted with and made him lern how to do a good 2-man-draft.
Before the April/06 Patch you could easily loose the draft of one of the top racers like Plaztikman or Quietscheente in Turn3 , it was always a challenge for me in every race, even though i think i wasnt one of the worst drivers in Oval/FO8 days (36.23 HL).
Now after the April/06 Patch some things are easier now with th BF1.
-Starting + Traction Control
-staying in draft of the car in front in every turn, is now not a big deal for a medium skilled oval driver.
-that meant that medium skilled wreckers could catch up with the best and were ruining with wild lines the races of the more experienced oval drivers
-effect of tyres in longrun, in the old days T3 could give you a problem in the end of a longrun if tyres were to hot or to cold
People who had oval experience with PatchQ and earlier and have Oval experience now will know what i'm talking about! People who never went into the details of oval racing in LFS will not know (tristancliffe)
So i can only repeat the sentence Fischfix said, really liked that buddy!
another big minus for me was the increasing of bump-draft-trains after April/06 patch. That was the main reason why i lost passion in oval.
Because my race depended to much only on the skill of the person who bumped me. In a good old 2-man-draft i could help the person i drafted with and made him lern how to do a good 2-man-draft.
the good old days
i think bumpdrafting will stop when actual damage model effects aero. so a bent wing won't produce downforce. so nobody will ruin his frontwing with bumpdrafting.
but now we got REALLY off-topic
i think bumpdrafting will stop when actual damage model effects aero. so a bent wing won't produce downforce. so nobody will ruin his frontwing with bumpdrafting.
but now we got REALLY off-topic
Nobo - the BF1 is pointless for oval racing anyway, far too much downforce even with wings at zero. If you could strip the downforce away it would get much more interesting.
Hey Nobo its still possible to get rid of the noobs/ wreckers you name it you just have to know when to attack 
Sure its much harder now b/c like you said, driving the bf1 now with these tires its much easier to handle the car in much more situations compared to the fo8. Bumpdraft trains are not that thrilling anymore, its nice now and then but drafting became much more important now, at least i think it does and even Mr. Failure himself likes to draft more often then pushing cars around the track
@ Bob Smith, if you show me a setup with wing settings 0/0 that can keep up at top speed without loosing speed in turns esp. in turn 3 with lets say, 2 cars infront giving draft, then youre my hero if you know what i mean I tried that only once or twice and its not possible at top speeds to stick to your line or the line you need in order to keep up. My settings are 2/2 and everything below is suicide But i dont know, maybe you have got different setup creation skills and could teach me on that.
you just have to know when to attack Sure its much harder now b/c like you said, driving the bf1 now with these tires its much easier to handle the car in much more situations compared to the fo8. Bumpdraft trains are not that thrilling anymore, its nice now and then but drafting became much more important now, at least i think it does and even Mr. Failure himself likes to draft more often then pushing cars around the track @ Bob Smith, if you show me a setup with wing settings 0/0 that can keep up at top speed without loosing speed in turns esp. in turn 3 with lets say, 2 cars infront giving draft, then youre my hero if you know what i mean
I tried that only once or twice and its not possible at top speeds to stick to your line or the line you need in order to keep up. My settings are 2/2 and everything below is suicide But i dont know, maybe you have got different setup creation skills and could teach me on that.i personly hate the oval but thats just IMO, although i love Blackwood, i love a change more than anyone but blackwood is a supper little track be nice if it was a bit bigger but still a good track, i like the elivation changes in it good for setup tweeking
i just had a few short races with the xrt around kyoval. the race line for the xrt is pretty interesting on that track, and bf1 is pretty boring in comparison . I REALLY would like to have some nascar spec cars in lfs now with some different ovals as well.
. I REALLY would like to have some nascar spec cars in lfs now with some different ovals as well.If it got any easier it'd be the drag-strip!
If you want to compare motor racing (and i'll allow any form of oval racing to come under that label, only this once
) to playing cards then so be it.Oval racing, the 'snap' of Motorsports
Hows that?
if one thing bothers me in lfs then that the cameras at the oval aren't placed very well. Not all but most of them dont show everything or the FOV is far to small also some cams have got a zoom function which can be quite annoying as well.
For example, when i watch a replay or a race theres one car selected on which the focus is all the time which also means i dont see what the rest of the field is doing. Papyrus did a great job by offering 3 spectator cams so you can always choose the one which gives you the best view or overview. I know doing this can be lots of work so a adjustable cam for users would do a good job as well but im not sure is this is realisable.
ImO this is the main reason why watching races on the oval can be quite boring. But i prefer to be on the track more then watching races so i can live with it
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BL GP surpases KY OVAL (track usage)
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