Before I have posted this thread - I have tried everything I know of to fix this problem.

Since the master server move - I cannot maintain a connection to a server with more than approx 10 cars for more than a lap. When connected on my own I can run for hours....

I have reformatted - once because I didnt realise it was the master server had moved. I have reformatted again this morning - as the Master server move thread has gone quiet so a presume I am on my own with this issue.

I have just optimized my TCP/IP setting using the Win xp Patch for PPPoE connections as that what I have - yet I still have the same issue.

I am on a home Lan - and my Lan setting are unchanged but to eliminate this from the situation - I have disconnected the other pcs - (essentially disabling the Lan) - and connected direct to the internet.

I have a wireless axcess port - which I have confirmed is disabled - (so that no-one is robbing my connection).

Ive rebooted and reset my router.

Ive checked my ISP site for network issues and there are none reported.

To ensure my pc is not lagging in game from to much processor operation - I limited frames to 50, minimum sleep is set to 1.

Im at a total loss, dont know what to do next.

Any suggestions

Apart from installing another driving game of course to see if the issue is the same - but it was not before the reformat/s. I dont want to play anything else - I want to drive on LFS and enjoy my pc time

Ive been trying to connect to the more popular servers - to get a bit of a race on - but I cant even get into the server - some times returning error message says - cannot connect to master server- other times - not recieving player inofrmation. Some times I just dont get it.

Sometimes - I will connect - but then on joining race- it wont allow me to join and boots me. I can see my connection bar going up into the red - then I get kicked.

I have however just connected to a host - running with 2 or 3 happy racers - and all was good.

Conclusion

Looks like my 2 meg line can no longer hack a full server..... Time to call my ISP and upgrade.

Yet more cost.......

Well - amazing what a nights sleep can do - got up this morning at 9 am, and can now connect to all servers - no issues - no disconnects - consistant frames - no lag - all good. I bet it was my ISP having issues.

Well - Same issues as last night - must be increased traffic - either on my ISP or master server...

Cant play - its appauling... cannot conect to server 95% ofm time - the other 5% is spent in spectate - then booted

Who's your ISP? Please don't say PlusNet.

I've got something simular I think. Since the move i can't connect to any server.."Did not get guest info, lost connection to host". And if you check doriftokids.com main page it says that I am "racing online". Aparently it has gotten hung up..maybe that has something to do with it for me? Don't know sadly..oh well :P

Quote from SamH :

Who's your ISP? Please don't say PlusNet.

Nope - Im with Pipex.

Although probably not the most common net provider - but they provide unlimited internet - and Ive been with them for nigh on 5 years - and Have had very little issue with connection - very minimal outage - and an extremly competative rate.

I walked round the block last night - after posting - so see if BT were working on the lines anywhere - and I have found the junction box just down the road - with the doors ripped off. This is exposing the connections to the elements and it was -6 last night.

Im still banking on the side of a issue with "traffic" at peak times through the master server.

Ive checked - and double checked everything on my machines from firewalls (software and hardware) to system issues and I cant see anything causing an issue.

Ive been in touch with Pipex and they are not quoting any system outages or issues - but they are stating that there web systems are being updated. They have said this should not cause any issue to my connection.

I have upgraded to a bigger line - so if there are any band width issues - in 7 - 10 working days - they should be history.

I have been driving on line this afternoon - and all was good up to 5:30pm - then suffered 3 disconnects during races - Had a few could not connect to server issues - did not recieve "ok"? did not recieve messages - the same.

I have had 3 plus years of online game play with with LFS - on line service has been awesome. This master server move is either conincidental - and my system sucks - or there are issues.

Im hoping that this is just a settling period - and Im happy to go with it - or Im happy to post up daily issues until a fix is found - at my end or the Devs.

It's probably worth clarifying some points here. There's no way to correlate the master server move with your disconnects from servers. The interaction between your machine and the server that a game is running on doesn't involve the master server. The master server only provides a means for servers and clients to FIND each other. After that, it's handed over to the clients and servers themselves. The master server is out of the equation from there on. I make this point because there's nothing in this instance that the devs could do to fix the problem you're having.

To eliminate the possibility of errant DNS records, if you haven't entered the Master Server's IP and hostname into your hosts file already, then you need to do that. You shouldn't need to, in a perfect world, but this one ain't.

@ Losah, you need to do that too, if you haven't already. Also you should call your ISP, if the above doesn't work, and give 'em hell.

LFS servers typically are set up using port ranges which are otherwise commonly used for P2P traffic. It's up to the server operators, rather than the LFS developers, which ports they use.. and they typically choose to stick with this range.

P2P is very high-volume traffic, and many ISPs in the UK are actively de-prioritizing traffic in this port range. Usually this will happen when peak times are approaching, and anything in the evening is peak, so if you've done okay for the main part through the day, on fairly busy servers, and now that it's evening your connections to LFS servers are beginning to falter, it seems pretty obvious that it's thanks to your ISP.

The reason I asked if you were with PlusNet is because they are well-known for their over-aggressive traffic shaping. Notorious, in fact. But other ISPs are following suit, and will probably squeeze the shaping into your contract under the heading "fair usage policy".

If you want to give it a few days and see how things go, and keep giving us updates, the best thing to do is to record the time you played, the number of other players, and the standard of the connection to the server.

Quote from Widdowmaker :

I have been driving on line this afternoon - and all was good up to 5:30pm - then suffered 3 disconnects during races

Try this again tomorrow, if you can, or any day during the week and see if it happens again. If it does this around about the same time every day I'd personally say it either stinks of your ISP starting port throttling as everyone returns home, or your ISP / DSLAM at the exchange getting oversubscribed at night.

Quote from SamH :

It's probably worth clarifying some points here. There's no way to correlate the master server move with your disconnects from servers. The interaction between your machine and the server that a game is running on doesn't involve the master server. The master server only provides a means for servers and clients to FIND each other. After that, it's handed over to the clients and servers themselves. The master server is out of the equation from there on. I make this point because there's nothing in this instance that the devs could do to fix the problem you're having.

To eliminate the possibility of errant DNS records, if you haven't entered the Master Server's IP and hostname into your hosts file already, then you need to do that. You shouldn't need to, in a perfect world, but this one ain't.

@ Losah, you need to do that too, if you haven't already. Also you should call your ISP, if the above doesn't work, and give 'em hell.

LFS servers typically are set up using port ranges which are otherwise commonly used for P2P traffic. It's up to the server operators, rather than the LFS developers, which ports they use.. and they typically choose to stick with this range.

P2P is very high-volume traffic, and many ISPs in the UK are actively de-prioritizing traffic in this port range. Usually this will happen when peak times are approaching, and anything in the evening is peak, so if you've done okay for the main part through the day, on fairly busy servers, and now that it's evening your connections to LFS servers are beginning to falter, it seems pretty obvious that it's thanks to your ISP.

The reason I asked if you were with PlusNet is because they are well-known for their over-aggressive traffic shaping. Notorious, in fact. But other ISPs are following suit, and will probably squeeze the shaping into your contract under the heading "fair usage policy".

If you want to give it a few days and see how things go, and keep giving us updates, the best thing to do is to record the time you played, the number of other players, and the standard of the connection to the server.

Now thats the kind of answer and explanition I can work with.... superb - thanks very much

Great - major coincidence that the issues has started along with the master server move tho.

I was thinking about how the msater server reacts and interacts with the my pc and the servers hosting "LFS sessions" and it did occur to me that it only provides a link essentially - then maintains a link to the master server. It really only points my pc in the direction of the "session".

I have tried not to directly point a finger any where - I just couldnt find an answer - when everything was working absolutly bang on - and no one was giving a clear reason.

Your words are greatly apprieciatted. Ta very much.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

Try this again tomorrow, if you can, or any day during the week and see if it happens again. If it does this around about the same time every day I'd personally say it either stinks of your ISP starting port throttling as everyone returns home, or your ISP / DSLAM at the exchange getting oversubscribed at night.

Same as above really - good suggestion ... thanks for an informed response...

So that you know this problem has not gone away.

Monday night - same issues - mainly trying to connect to the master server - ie to bring up the list of games. Could not axcess master server list at all.
Contacted my ISP and u[pgraded my line.... 7-10 day for up to 8 meg line.

Tuesday night - Managed to bring up the list - although extremely slowly. Managed to connect via typing in another players name - got onto server. ran 4 races - 10 laps on DBP server - Each race got disconnected after 4th lap. Whilst on that server - another racer with the same ISP - was having exactly the same issues.

SO yes - I am resigned to the fact that it is the ISP that is the problem - upgrading is not going to change anything as the other racer is on an 8 meg line....

I have investigated Bandwidth throttling as outlined above and I have a few questions that I cant answer from my googling...

If the Bandwidth throttling is performed to restrict ranges of ports, to exclude the P2P networks - why is this affecting LFS?

I know its possible when setting up servers to specify different port ranges for LFS servers. We experimented with different port settings but the net outcome was just the same. I could connect - although very slowly - and got kicked 3 or 4 minutes into the session.

At risk off waffling on for too long - why would Bandwidth throttling have such an effect on LFS when my download and upload speeds remain the same as normal?? (speed tests done on uk test site through www.speedguide.net)

Quote from Widdowmaker :

I have investigated Bandwidth throttling as outlined above and I have a few questions that I cant answer from my googling...

Rather than a blacklist, many ISPs are using whitelists. That means they have a set list of what they consider to be "good" traffic. If its not on that list, it gets throttled by a default amount. They then have further lists that throttle beyond the default for certain ports and identifiable traffic.

Pings are an irrelevant measure, and most speed tests occur over normal HTTP (web browsing) - which is unthrottled, so most people don't notice it's occuring.

The key problems are that because LFS uses "high" ports by default and it is somewhat trickier to identify (no signature as such), because its quite minimal.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

The key problems are that because LFS uses "high" ports by default and it is somewhat trickier to identify (no signature as such), because its quite minimal.

You mean by quite minimal - is that LFS has minimal traffic compared to the P2P networks? The traffic that they want to throttle.

That being the case thats great - LFS uses port ranges that are within the P2P network bandwidth.

Please excuse my aparent "thickness", but its all about understanding my problems and finding a solution, with minimal fuss and disturbance. It may a slight irritation for some explaining a bit more.

It would certainly be unfair of me - an individual to ask for the default ports to be changed then.

Do we know what band widths/ port ranges that are being throttled? Cos my ISP is certianly not prepared to tell me, I am even struggling to find any refference to bandwidth throttling on there data bases - and suprise of suprises - on 3 occasions Ive phoned -asking the same quesion - and do you know the response.... lmao

"errrr - I dont know what it is but at about 5 pm, our networks go really slow and I am unable to bring up your account. Would you mind calling in the day?"

Unfortunatly I cant - I work all hours god sends...

They cant even confirm that my upgrade request is going through - time to change ISP's.....

Quote from Widdowmaker :

You mean by quite minimal - is that LFS has minimal traffic compared to the P2P networks? The traffic that they want to throttle

Not quite what I meant. Basically LFS netcode is generally pretty simple, and all looks fairly random. i.e. there's no real defining feature to it, if I remember correctly (ignoring the initial handshaking with the server). I will take this opportunity to say that it's been a few months since I took a look at a dump of the network traffic, so I could be telling huge porkies.

In contrast HTTP traffic is usually pretty easily defined as there are a number of defining features - such as HTTP codes at the start of the response, typical port numbers, html or similar payload, etc.

Quote from Widdowmaker :

It would certainly be unfair of me - an individual to ask for the default ports to be changed then.

A number of hosts are known to be trialling servers on alternative ports, to see what kind of performance increases they can get:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=15829

Quote from Widdowmaker :

Do we know what band widths/ port ranges that are being throttled? Cos my ISP is certianly not prepared to tell me, I am even struggling to find any refference to bandwidth throttling on there data bases - and suprise of suprises - on 3 occasions Ive phoned -asking the same quesion - and do you know the response.... lmao

How long is a piece of string?

Unless you get through to a real techy, who is genuinely friendly, you probably won't find out tbh. I've got a few friends inside a few ISPs, and can't find out or disclose for various reasons. Suffice to say, it varies drastically from ISP to ISP, and the technology used.

Quote from Widdowmaker :

They cant even confirm that my upgrade request is going through - time to change ISP's.....

You may wish to look into Eclipse. Whilst they do packet shape during peak hours, I've not noticed any significant problems when I've used some of our work lines to have a quick game.

Zen are also known not to packet shape, but they do have bandwidth limits, and are rather expensive.

Unfortunately it's the way the UKs broadband network is going atm.

Thank you again

Whilt you were typing your response - I acutally rang Pipex again - ang got through to 2 guys - were actually extrmemly usefull - helpfull and very encouraging in there manner.

They have confirmed to me that I am not a heavy user - and my account is not throttled.

They have reffered me to there terms and conditions - to a particular point - which I wasnt aware of.

"Pipex is pleased to report that the introduction of network traffic management measures and policies, which we continue to develop, have been a resounding success. Our initial forecast that very few customers would need their connections specifically traffic managed continues to prove correct. The vast majority of customers were only affected in the sense that they received an even better service as a result network traffic management. "

I dont particularily fall in to the above catagory... but...

"Pipex welcomes dialogue on these policy amendments, particularly with the very small number of users who may be affected by these changes. If you are part of the tiny minority of our customer base who generate an unusually large amount of network traffic from legitimate activities, we are keen to work with you to find a service that is more appropriate for your usage requirements. "

They have given me an email address - and asked me to forward the following info..

The IP of the game server I conenct too. They wil perform a series of tests - of which they did not explain the "nature" but did say this will allow them to catagorise the type of traffic through the server. They have asked me to perform "trace route tests" from my location to the server, and forward them the details. Once I have forwarded them the results they will assess, and hopefully provide an answer within 48 hours.

They ended by saying that there could be a number of issues regarding my connection, from local building work, work on the lines to a number of things - but if the traffic I am using/making is being interferred with - they can almost certainly imporve things from their end (dependant on the nature of the traffic)- hopefully giving me a better service.

Now - to find out what the hell trace routes are -and how I do it... Of to google for a while.

It certainly sounds like port throttling....im with Plusnet (not for much longer ) and during peak hours LFS servers that aren't run on 'standard' LFS ports are unaccesable due to pings in the several thousands.

As for Tracerts...click on START, then RUN, type "cmd" (no quotes)
Then in the dos box that comes up type "tracert" followed by a space then the ip address you wish to perform the tracert to. hit enter and sit back

eg: tracert bbc.co.uk

Problem is, when you dont know the IP of the server you wish to play on theres nothing you can do.

Cheers Moose

I had just found an online place that did a graph output - and its shows exactly the same results.

I dont really know where this is gonna take me - Im kind of sceptical that my sevice provider is actually going to do anything.

A useful app for this would be WinMTR - http://winmtr.sourceforge.net/

Instead of just doing one tracert, it does it over and over giving the latency and packet loss at each hop

Like this...

Good shout Bean0...i should have suggested that handy little app as i use it all the time

@widowmaker My ISP sure as hell aren't interested in doing anything about it. Thats why im off.

ive just spent the last hour typing out an email and doing as they asked - so Ill give them the 48 hours they quoted -if no response or futher help - Ill cancel my upgrade and move ISP's.

Thanks for all the help and advice

Well - no contact as yet.... Looks like Im without LFS for the weekend....

Ive just tried on line again - and still same issue. Although - there was at least 6 other racers with the same problem....

Getting to route cause - finding a reason - finding whats at fault.

Just looking down the server lists.... I noticed how many servers were running external apps - insom based apps for example - the STcc servers - CLC and a few more I think.

How much "net" effect on traffic are these servers having on the networks/master server? - Is this insim traffic going through the master server? I dont understand how the system works and I just notice how many racers are using them - they seem to be very popular. I tried racing on the STCC tonight - but kept getting disconnected - I didnt finish a 5 lap race..

I did manage to get in a few races on the demo servers last night around blackwood - but it was at a very late hour. but of course today - at this hour when you want to get a few relaxing racers in after work, I cant.

Its an unjust world - hey hum...

Wow, I used that WinMTR program. I'm getting 10% packet loss to one of my ISPs own routers.

Ive run the mtr program myself -and I dont see any issues - except for the fact there are 16 nodes to the server...

very little packet loss on the whole - and not a bad average response. The occasional worse ping - but they are relatively random looking at the averages.

Can anybody interpret the win mtr results, cos other than my assumptions above - they mean jack all to me.

Spent the last hour playing Pro Evo 6 online - not my most favroite of games - but no disconects or lag.

I am pretty much sure now - that maybe the issue is not based with my connection. There are far to many people now with this issue.