Hi Guys,

I just got my G25 last week, and have been configuring it pretty successfully for the 8 sims I drive regularly (GPL, GTL, GTR2, RFactor, LFS, RBR, Netkar PRO, and NR2003).

I've been reading through every discussion on here about the G25 and Force Feedback settings for LFS, but haven't seen the issue I'm having mentioned exactly. I've tried every setup configuration mentioned in those threads, for the control panel and in the LFS settings page.

The issue I'm having is that I'm only feeling the rumble strips if the wheel is centered (car pointing straight ahead). If I drive over a rumble strip while the wheel is turned to any degree off center (2 degrees to 90 degrees and beyond), I don't feel the rumble strip. I'm also not feeling the "train tracks" on the bridge at Fern Bay. With my old Wingman Formula Force (old red), I felt the rumble strips strongly and consistently, as well as the train tracks, and I felt very immersed in Live For Speed.

I also feel like my G25 is not telling me when the front or rear tires are losing traction too well. Again, this was something the Formula Force's feedback "reported" very well. The force feedback on my G25 is strong, but it's not giving me the real feedback I'd like to feel, to tell me what the car is doing. So far the tire/road interaction felt more realistic in LFS with my Formula Force than with the G25.

I feel like a big part of the immersion from the force feedback is missing. Can someone who has figured these issues out perhaps offer some ideas, please.

I've tried every setting between 180 and 900 degrees of rotation, centering spring on and off (with slider at 0), spring forces at 101 and at 0, damper setting at 101 and at 0, overall effects strength at 100 and at 101.

I've tried all the different controller settings suggested within LFS as well. Still no rumble on the strips unless the wheel is pointing straight ahead. I've checked the cfg.txt file in the main LFS folder, and FF Steps is set at 256 as someone suggested to check.

The G25 is giving me a lot of feedback to tell me what the car is doing in other sims (especially in RBR, and with some tweaking in GPL, RFactor, GTL, and GTR2). I haven't tried it with Netkar Pro or NR2003 yet.

But I'd really like to be able to figure this out for LFS, rather than switching back to my Formula Force just to drive LFS! LOL The force feedback in LFS is known to be some of the best in any of the great sims, and I know this first hand from driving it for years with my Formula Force. I'd like that same great feedback with my G25. So I hope someone can help me.

Thanks so much,
Aly

That's normal. It has to do with the 2 FFB motors that fall in a gap where the spool can't shake the magnet wich shakes the wheel. I had it with a DFP and other wheels too.
(Though it wasn't really that noticable as the 'gap' was very small.)

Quote from (SaM) :

That's normal. It has to do with the 2 FFB motors that fall in a gap where the spool can't shake the magnet wich shakes the wheel. I had it with a DFP and other wheels too.
(Though it wasn't really that noticable as the 'gap' was very small.)

Thanks for responding Sam.

I'm curious of two things though. Why isn't this an issue in GTL, GTR2, or RFactor? Is it because the rumble effects in those sims are "canned" as people like to put it?

And let's put it another way...lack of feeling rumble strips aside...

With all the tweaking I've tried in the control panel and in LFS, Why is my G25 not telling me when the front or rear tires are losing traction like my old Formula Force wheel did?

Thanks,
Aly

Quote from (SaM) :

That's normal. It has to do with the 2 FFB motors that fall in a gap where the spool can't shake the magnet wich shakes the wheel. I had it with a DFP and other wheels too.
(Though it wasn't really that noticable as the 'gap' was very small.)

I thought it would be the other way round if that was the case, he'd only feel the rumble strips when the wheel is turned. At the moment its only when the wheel is centered...
Wierd problem, don't have this issue with me dfp, and not seen anyone else mention it either. Have you tried a reinstall of lfs/logitech drivers? only thing i can suggest.

You don't sound like someone who would forget about that, but just for a check:

Are you sure your FFB works in the right direction ? Because you could let the FFB work in the wrong direction and that gives a weird feeling to the wheel.

So in LFS check the direction the FFB is working

Oh wait, it is the other way around, well yes, then it is a peculiar matter.

There's a possibility it has something to do with your FFB settings in Windows.
As my DFP is currently opened up and in heaven, I can't make a screenshot, but using the following settings is recommended:

Master FFB strength: 101%
Then the 2 settings below at 100%
Set centering force to 0% but enable it.

Also, what are your FF Step Num settings in cfg.txt?

Quote from ATHome :

You don't sound like someone who would forget about that, but just for a check:

Are you sure your FFB works in the right direction ? Because you could let the FFB work in the wrong direction and that gives a weird feeling to the wheel.

So in LFS check the direction the FFB is working

Hi ATHome

This is actually a VERY good suggestion, as it has been an issue I've had to tweak in the ISI based sims. Not only checking the box to reverse effects, but making sure the damper setting in the GTL, GTR2, and RFactor controller.ini files was set to NEGATIVE (-1.00000) as well. Otherwise there's a gap at the center where you don't feel any forces.

I didn't think of checking it in LFS (reversing effects), because I thought it was only an issue in ISI based sims.

I just looked through the LFS controller settings page but didn't see where to "reverse" the effects. Would you know where I can find that setting? Because something tells me you've hit the nail on the head.

Oh, and by the way, I just tried my G25 for the first time in Netkar Pro, and it felt amazing. Very immersive and communicative, and I felt the rumble strips very nicely whether the wheel was turned or not.

So this is definitely a LFS only issue I'm having.

Thanks,
Aly

Quote from (SaM) :

Oh wait, it is the other way around, well yes, then it is a peculiar matter.

There's a possibility it has something to do with your FFB settings in Windows.
As my DFP is currently opened up and in heaven, I can't make a screenshot, but using the following settings is recommended:

Master FFB strength: 101%
Then the 2 settings below at 100%
Set centering force to 0% but enable it.

Also, what are your FF Step Num settings in cfg.txt?

Hey Sam,

Tried all these settings already. And checked the FF Step Num setting, and it's at 256.


Aly

Try lowering it, see if there are any differences.

Quote from (SaM) :

Try lowering it, see if there are any differences.

Just tried it...I didn't feel any difference in feel between 128 and 256.

I really want to try reversing the force feedback effects though. Hopefully someone can tell me where this setting is in LFS.

Appreciating all the help in trying to figure this out,
Aly

I've played Rfactor with a G25 at an autoshow. I sure couldn't feel very good FFB.

I've always noticed this in LFS, and my G25 is no different. At least not at speed, where forces are very strong. I have a hunch that it may be because LFS's FF is not effect based, and the wheel can only apply force in one "direction" at a time. (edit: to clarify this, if the sum of the force between the regular forces on the virtual steering mechanism, and the force of the "kickback" by the curb is still the same sign as the original force, the wheel will not "let go" and you won't feel the change in force...) Resorting to effects would likely make this work. I never had them around corners with my MOMO either. Unless I was travelling really slowly that is, just like now. I do find that at speed, I can feel the initial impact of the curb in certain cars (XFR with Locked Diff lets you feel EVERYTHING, including strange things in the road surface, at least at Fern Bay). but rarely the strips. Even braking with one wheel on the curb is so much better with the G25 than my old MOMO. Note that I have my FF set to 100% in LFS.

edit: to answer your question you cannot "reverse" the force in LFS, it doesn't work that way.

I'm just trying to figure out why LFS felt so immersive and commincative with my eight year old LWFF (Formula Force), and not with my new G25....when the G25 is supposed to be a much more advanced wheel, especially when it comes to the force feedback (even though the Formula Force had the great cable system). But the G25 feels very good with other sims. RBR and Netkar Pro especially feel VERY immersive and communicative. And you feel all the rumble strips strongly in Netkar Pro with the G25.

Why would I feel rumble strips and more of the interaction between the tires and the road with the Formula Force, and not feel them with the G25? We're talking about the same simulator and simulator software.

And, as I mentioned, I just tried my G25 out in Netkar Pro for the first time 10 minutes ago, and it felt amazing.

This is only a LFS issue I'm having, and only with the G25 (not with the old Formula Force).

So there's got to be some settings that can be tweaked somewhere in LFS that will make the force feedback more COMMUNICATIVE with the G25.

Hopefully we can figure this out.
Aly

Tbh, I think LfS itself is to blame for that... Now that you brought this to my attention, I remember I had this "problem" with my old Saitek-wheel too (now also on G25) and I couldn't figure out why I only occasionally felt the rumble when I was driving over the curbs...

I have suffered perhaps from same issue with my dfp, before with MSFF wheel it was ok. I always thought that it is something else, but it really seem to be just like you say, when wheel is turned there are no rumble strip effects at all.

Forces that I do feel are very rarely some bumps and rublestrips, then weight transfer. That is it, nothing else.

There was ton more with MSFF wheel.

Quote from JTbo :

I have suffered perhaps from same issue with my dfp, before with MSFF wheel it was ok. I always thought that it is something else, but it really seem to be just like you say, when wheel is turned there are no rumble strip effects at all.

Forces that I do feel are very rarely some bumps and rublestrips, then weight transfer. That is it, nothing else.

There was ton more with MSFF wheel.

Thanks JTbo for responding.

Well, it looks like I'm not the only one then. It seems that the LFS software has not been properly configured for the DFP and G25 wheels...since you and I both felt, as you mentioned, a ton more effects/immersion with our older wheels (Logitech Wingman Formula Force and Microsoft Sidwinder Force Feedback wheel).

Aly

Quote from (SaM) :

using the following settings is recommended:

Master FFB strength: 101%
Then the 2 settings below at 100%
Set centering force to 0% but enable it.

I don't know who recommended you to use spring and damper effects but LFS doesn't take any advantage from them, only the opposite if anything. Also centering spring can most likely be unticked as the newer driver software doesn't have that certain bug anymore...

I'd like to know what car/setup/track combo are you using to test this? If UFR@SO5R with 100% forces doesn't shake your wheel in every bump and rumble strip then I'd be worried.

Quote from JTbo :

Forces that I do feel are very rarely some bumps and rublestrips, then weight transfer. That is it, nothing else.

There was ton more with MSFF wheel.

I'd like to know exactly what kind of effects were you getting on the MS wheel that are now missing with the DFP..?

Well guys,

Just to test if what I was feeling with my new G25 was right, I took some time and hooked up my old LWFF (Formula Force). (I made sure to uninstall the 5.00 software and re-install the older 4.25 wingman software).

Fired up LFS and I confess that the old Formula Force wheel does exactly the same thing as the G25. No rumble strips unless you're pointing straight ahead. I guess I just never noticed it.

So, I apologize for bringing all this up. I admit I was wrong.

I've now reinstalled my G25 again, and it does feel better in LFS, since the feedback force itself is stronger than the old wheel.

I must just be really tired today. LOL And I think when we get a new product like this, our minds project an expectation on them to be a million times more amazing then the stuff we've used before. Especially when we spend close to 300 dollars on it!

The G25 is definitely worth the investment though. It is an improvement over the LWFF (Formula Force). It definitely takes some getting used to though. And I'm glad I hooked up the older wheel for a few minutes just to see how much better the new wheel is.

Thanks for all the help guys, and again, sorry about this,
Aly

Quote from kompa :

I'd like to know exactly what kind of effects were you getting on the MS wheel that are now missing with the DFP..?

For example when I was about to lock or lock wheels at braking I could feel change in force feedback. Also when car did shake like crazy I did felt it in wheel, now nothing, nada, zero, there is just very rarely some very short effect from rumble strips, nothing like before. Now there is wheel turning at turns at different strength based to weight transfer. Sometimes rarely I get small effect from bump or rumble strip, but very rarely, no matter how hard my car does shake etc.


It is now more than year since I sold my wheel so can't really test again to refresh my memories and do scientific analysis from what is different in certain situation, but trust me that there is huge difference.

Oh yes, putting dfp to old feedback mode did help quite a lot, but it is PITA to always search that combination that I forget

Quote from JTbo :

For example when I was about to lock or lock wheels at braking I could feel change in force feedback. Also when car did shake like crazy I did felt it in wheel, now nothing, nada, zero, there is just very rarely some very short effect from rumble strips, nothing like before. Now there is wheel turning at turns at different strength based to weight transfer. Sometimes rarely I get small effect from bump or rumble strip, but very rarely, no matter how hard my car does shake etc.


It is now more than year since I sold my wheel so can't really test again to refresh my memories and do scientific analysis from what is different in certain situation, but trust me that there is huge difference.

I forgot to mention in post 18, (when I had the Formula Force wheel hooked up again) that there was an oscillation with the older wheel that isn't there in the G25. I'm not sure if this is what gave us the impression that there was more going on. It's like a side to side oscillation when you turn the wheel a little sharply at high speed.

Also though, I noticed that just once when I came into the left-right chicane at Aston National in the Formula XR, that the OLD wheel did pull the proper way in a slight opposite lock situation, which did feel very realistic. I'll spend some more time with the G25 and see if I feel that happen, but so far I haven't felt it do that.

EDIT: Just took some more laps in the Formula XR, and a few in the XR GTR, and I was able to recreate the opposite lock pull with the G25. So it's cool.

Aly

If I put it to old mode and crank force level to something insane like 28% in LFS and 66% in windows then I can feel more often those rumble strips, specially with left wheel, right wheel misses them more often then. I'm having passenger at front seat too. However for me completely impossible to run with such settings after 10 laps neck is busted already.

Also in old mode there is that oscillation thing and also forces respond bit slower and even at best forces are dragging clearly behind making steering harder so that is also reason why force level should be something like 13% when in windows it is set to 66%.

Canned effects seem better in some cases because of this

When I got this wheel I was about to return this to shop as faulty, that big difference it was between wheels and I did then test again old MSFF and this after that and clearly huge difference, I was wondering that how this can be, they say this has great force feedback and still old wheel is so much better.

Of course as I have now used to this it is ok, but surely not working nearly as well as MSFF wheel was. However this one at least won't loose force feedback when hitting rumble strip in ISI sims

Just to correct my idea, reversing FFB in LFS isn't possible anymore.

But I am quite sure that it was reversible once.

Quote from ATHome :

Just to correct my idea, reversing FFB in LFS isn't possible anymore.

But I am quite sure that it was reversible once.

Thanks ATHome, much appreciated.

Aly

Have fun with the wheel. Its a great wheel, had mine for a couple of months now

The optimal settings for the G25 are meant to be overall forces 100% in CP and everything else 0% and unchecked.

I run with 40% FF in LFS as this with 100% gives a smooth feel but bags of power. I like mine set where it can really kick about but you dont really feel the gears.

Also set your wheel to 720degs in CP and 720 in LFS. Then set wheel turn comp to 1. Your wheel lock will now be adjusted by LFS to match the lock in the car (soft lock in that you dont feel endstop wheen less than 720)

720deg takes a while to get used to in the slower tintops as you have to work hard but once you get used to it you find the immersion level rise as it feel more natural

I bought the G25 a few weeks ago. My settings are:
Force Feedback on, global force feedback strength 101%, all other settings 0%, spring centering on but set to 0% as suggested in other threads, with 40% ffb in LFS (which is far stronger than 40% with Momo black, but I like it this way). There are however some odd behaviours: when the car is still, there is zero force feedback resistance and I have to gain a bit of speed to feel it. Moreover (and on topic ) I can't feel the rumble strips but only when the wheel is centered. When I turn (even gently) on rumble strips, I feel them in an excellent way, and that's exactly the opposite of what Flight is experimenting (if I understand well) . I don't remember whether my Momo Black behaved the same way or not, or if it's normal assuming that a rumble strip should transmit no sideways movement to the wheels, and therefore to the steering wheel, except when the rumble strips are not perpendicular to the wheel axis. I'm also considering the possible presence of a "dead spot" in forces when the wheel is centered. At the moment I'm happy with the G25 all the same, but if there's something wrong in my setup (or considerations), I'd like to know. Thanks.