A bit OT question:

do you guys know if LFS sound engine is full "generated" by lfs (similar to scazzato sound engine on nkp) or still need sound sample file as base?

In which way LFS sound engine create the sound?



P.S: i'm searching these informations because i'm reviewing LFS for a "online sim-magazine"

Quote from SpaceMarineITA :

A bit OT question:

do you guys know if LFS sound engine is full "generated" by lfs (similar to scazzato sound engine on nkp) or still need sound sample file as base?

In which way LFS sound engine create the sound?



P.S: i'm searching these informations because i'm reviewing LFS for a "online sim-magazine"

Are you aware that you can edit the sounds of the cars in LFS by pressing shift-A when in car? This gives quite good image of what goes on with the sound engine and what and how it does what it does

EDIT: Can't find a good thread about it now, maybe someone else will

Quote from Hyperactive :

Are you aware that you can edit the sounds of the cars in LFS by pressing shift-A when in car? This gives quite good image of what goes on with the sound engine and what and how it does what it does

yeah i now that since the first day in which has been discovered

Infact im not using BF1 davews file, but Kaynd one (much better, it can be downloaded somewhere on the forums)

Still searching for something decent for FZR. UFR instead is really nice to hear

Quote from SpaceMarineITA :

do you guys know if LFS sound engine is full "generated" by lfs (similar to scazzato sound engine on nkp) or still need sound sample file as base?

In which way LFS sound engine create the sound?

Yes, it is generated/synthesized and has always been like that, including transmission whine.

Though it still uses (like probably Scazzato too) very short base samples but they are shorter than 0.1 secs so it is not really same way sampled like GTR2/GTL/rFactor are.

Gear shift sounds are probably only ones that arent generated? And the starter sound (which is IMO really bad, improvement suggestion: replace it and make different ones for different cars).

Offtopic: I never liked that Scazzato in nKp... if LFS sounds were before dreadful to hear, Scazzato gave new meaning for that word.. It somehow sounds exactly same as in onboard vids from single seaters, where the sounds is very distorted and low quality

lfs is still sample based although in rather miserious ways as the samples dont have all that much effect on what it sounds like

Quote from Shotglass :

lfs is still sample based although in rather miserious ways as the samples dont have all that much effect on what it sounds like

Shhhhh! Don't say that! LFS can't use samples... samples are baaad mmmmmkay!

Hah.. all the arguments people have put forward against the likes of ISI games (no, I'm not saying ISI games are better) where "LFS is so much more advanced in how sound is produced".. yet uses samples just like other games.. yet sooooooooo much more restrictively.. oh the irony.. the fanbois will get you for your comment



Regards,

Ian

Check it out.. :headbang:


BTW oval racing is not my thing, just listen though.

Mmm... meaty

Quote from DaveWS :

Check it out.. :headbang:


BTW oval racing is not my thing, just listen though.

Nice, but at the highest revs from external view it seems still a bit too artificial imho, and the echo seems still a bit high (from external).
Internal seems fine


P.S: but why are u testing sounds for a stockcar?
We don't have a stockcar in lfs... yet

Woah. That was maybe a bit thin on the grunt side (ROARRARRRARRR) at some places, maybe because LFS sounds doesn't seem to produce that detailed exhaust simulation. But that aside it sounded exactly the same than the cars in NR2003, well, what I can remember they sound like. Can imagine the cars go around the track, great clip!

Quote from Ian.H :

Shhhhh! Don't say that! LFS can't use samples... samples are baaad mmmmmkay!

Hah.. all the arguments people have put forward against the likes of ISI games (no, I'm not saying ISI games are better) where "LFS is so much more advanced in how sound is produced".. yet uses samples just like other games.. yet sooooooooo much more restrictively.. oh the irony.. the fanbois will get you for your comment

heh, dont get so radical
the argument is not for itself - it is against looped samples so you can recognize them almost in pitch changes and un-in-for-ma-tive-ness they bring. It is not about the elements sounds in lfs are built from.

back to topic: I dont know what layers are needed in engine sound, sometimes they lack beefeness, I cant exactly pinpoint. I like most of sounds, I can tell which do annoy me: FZR, BF1 (bit of cure for me: uneveness to max, tone variation to max, header mix to half - btw: will we have thread/subforum for sound addons?).
I think skidding should have a layer of sound of tyres similar to scrub. Especially with road cars you hear them more than engine.

Quote from DaveWS :

Check it out.. :headbang:


BTW oval racing is not my thing, just listen though.

beefy and very rigid (if on lfs engine - maybe bit of uneveness or tone variation?)

Quote from Lotesdelere :

it's even hard to hear my own horn!
It's hard to hear other cars close to me, skid sounds are almost inaudible, I don't hear anymore the sound from other cars brushing a wall behind me, etc...
Patch U sounds may not be accurate but at least the whole thing sounded 'alive'. I have to admit I'm disappointed by the new sounds. It may technically be an improvement but the global result is poor

I agree with alot of what others have said, but the areas highlighted bother me in particular.

When I play with the Shift-A settings and get them anywhere near the level I want, the horn becomes completely un-audible.

Cars driving past has always been disappointing. Fair enough you might not really hear them from behind, but as soon as they begin to pass you should really hear them, especially once in front. In fact I would hazzard a guess that on a busy straight with several cars in front it should be nearly impossible to hear your own exhaust! I haven't been on a grid IRL that is that busy, but that's why it's a guess However, for normal overtaking by one car at a time then LFS is lacking.

I can remember my trackday at Knockhill when all I wanted to do was follow that damn fast TVR Sagaris! It's exhaust note was second to none that day and could be heard from way down the back straight in a following car, but in LFS I would have to be literally 1m from its backside to hear it's exhaust.

long winded way to make a simple point i guess!

BF1 any better?

I just thought I'd chuck in that I'd quite like, as soon as the sound hits 5.1 territory, for the sounds of the car to be placed around the driver correctly, in the saloons for example, you would have the tail coming from the rear speakers, and the header mix from just the front, and the middle silencer noise from all four, same applies to gravel getting up in your wheel arches for each wheel, knowing which tire locks up from the speaker it comes out of... you get the idea


I think the roughness and the irregularity of the sound you are all seeking will come with a better engine simulation, with less regular power curves etc, that UF engine would be lumpy as ricepudding on textured wallpaper in real life, not the smooth, but ultimately weak engine it has now.

Quote from DaveWS :

BF1 any better?

Hmm. It's arcadier, if you will. Reminds me more of a mid 90s game. Try taking it in another direction.

There is no hope..

Quote from mrbogeyman :

Cars driving past has always been disappointing. Fair enough you might not really hear them from behind, but as soon as they begin to pass you should really hear them, especially once in front. In fact I would hazzard a guess that on a busy straight with several cars in front it should be nearly impossible to hear your own exhaust!

I can remember my trackday at Knockhill when all I wanted to do was follow that damn fast TVR Sagaris! It's exhaust note was second to none that day and could be heard from way down the back straight in a following car, but in LFS I would have to be literally 1m from its backside to hear it's exhaust.

I agree with this. It seems like the exhaust note isn't loud enough and doesn't carry far enough. It's almost like the sound of the car is coming from the inside. Easy to hear in the car, but not so loud and falls off fast when you're outside the car (either external camera, or following other cars).

Other than this, it seems like almost all of the non-engine sounds are missing (though we now have transmission and diff whine). Gear shifts are very quiet, there's no noise from gravel or marbles on the undercarriage, there's no creaks/groans/rattles from interior bits, there's no brake noise. Outside of the car itself, there's no noise from fans in the stands, nothing from the announcers, nothing from pit crews, etc.

I think that the sounds of the cars themselves need more "fill", but even more than that, sounds other than the engine/trans are what are really missing. Of course, a lot of those exterior sounds will be out of place without the visual stuff that goes with them (more people in the stands, people in the pits). In addition, we don't really know the limitations of the sound system in LFS and whether or not it can do what we want to hear without significant work. Hopefully it can.

Quote from DaveWS :

There is no hope..

That's what we all thought before you came along.

Maybe a formula one engine is just so different from other engines that it needs a different sound engine altogether to come close? So far, only some rev ranges sound realistic; the rest just turns into cheese.

I got an idea maybe you'll find interesting - it's about the lack of the sound of far away cars.

Higher frequency tones get muffled with distance so you hear muffled engine sound not a roar from the more remote cars. It could be muffled with some linear function of distance in the equaliser but every car (those out of sight also) will have to have sound modelled completely.

Which I find a waste.

There could be a mix, ie. think of 3 sliders, with Muffled Distant Sound, Roar of the Engine and Tire Scrub Sound (which I miss in current external sound of road nonslicked cars). The MDS would be present nearly always (as bassy sound it can be heard on the whole track prolly), the rest would come into mix when in sight - something like simple cars in graphics.

What dya think?

Quote from DaveWS :

There is no hope..

We have lost the growl we had in U-U30 versions.
And the growl is really missing on the big powerfull engines like the FZR and the BF1 ones.

Quote from Dj-Aeri :

Yeah, but it's not working well for me. The sound has to much lag and clipping.

Use CSR with higher priority, it fixes the lag issue. How to start CSR with .bat file with high priority: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=311949#post311949

Ok guys, here is another dual recording of the BF1. In other words a MIX of two recordings of the BF1 with different settings. IMO this is really getting somewhere now. Edit: The more I listen to it the worse it gets.

P.S. Again ignore the reverb/echo like effect where the mix isn't perfectly matched.

Not too bad at higher revs, but it's still missing that bark and shriek of a real engine. I think there's little you can do about that thought until the sound engine is overhauled again.

Quote from Bob Smith :

Not too bad at higher revs, but it's still missing that bark and shriek of a real engine. I think there's little you can do about that thought until the sound engine is overhauled again.

try turning the exhaust volume up so it distorts.

The worst part of the BF1 sound is the TC. It sounds horrible and is so dominating and the sound just rips my ears.

I can imagine that recreating true F1 sound is very difficult. That kind of engine can backfire a lot and we don't even have that, so one element is completely missing. I'd say that it's the exhaust sound model which needs reworking. The trumpet comment from Vain earlier was great I think.

Nice video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_InY2T8uUzw