Depends what "better gfx" means. Few fancy DX8/9 effects are useless as long as textures are low-res. Just doubling the textures size would make a huge difference visually and it doesn't have much effect on fps if at all, not even on older machines. Poll options are lame, I'm going to upgrade but definitely not because of LFS.

Not that I think the graphics are bad now. I think they are quite good.
I have a good solid computer. I would just need a better graphics card.

I would rather see work done on some different tracks/combos and fixes to track layouts than I would "high res textures".

Quote from Tomtheman70 :

Well, those some people could download LFS and play it flawlessly :P

That's just it! You think because at one time you could run S2 flawlessly, then that's how it should stay. Should we just roll back LFS to that point in time to where everyone can run it? Hell no, you'd all be moaning about wanting this feature and that... Before S2 is final it really needs to be cleaned up to today's standards. S3 would entail a new engine, but S2 can and will get some gfx updates which will most likely chew some FPS. Remember that LFS is unlike other products because it's a work in progress. You purchased an S2 license and downloaded S2 ALPHA , that means things will change a lot. So I stress, please don't expect LFS to run just the way it did when you first ran it - we don't want LFS to forever be using yesterday's technology

Lfs doesnt look that bad. First when i started playing it, i thought it looked really good to be honest. After updating the textures to the hires ones, the game looks better then ever, especially with a good reflection mod. The graphics are just fine for now as long as you have aa and af, when everyone starts playing crysis, and then back to lfs, thats when you will see complaints. For a dx8 game it alright. My computer could handle a boost in graphics for sure, but i dont really mind the current state of lfs.

the tracks look great, but the cars are very basic. No doubt to allow for many on screen at once. It'd be interested to compare LFS graphics to other sims and then we'd have something to talk about. Anyone got some spare time to post comparison shots?

I have no problem running LFS on my PC with all options on and max AntiAliasing and full Anisotropic Filtering.
Specs:
AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (No X2)
1024 RAM DDRII PC667(atm)
GeForce 7600 GT AGP (atm)
Creative SB X-Fi Elite Pro

But on my girlfriend PC i definatly run into trouble when:
- I let the AI do a race against themselves or me.
- There are a lot of objects in a layout or in autocross mode.

Specs:
Intel Core 2Duo E6600
1024 RAM DDRII PC667
ATI RADEON X1650 PRO PCIe
Onboard Sound

Mine is fine, 24" Imac , with 7600 GT,
I play LFS with 4xAA and 2x AF, over 90fps.

Even watching the replay of a grid of 24 drivers still never go down below 30 fps

There's a physics card on the market http://www.ageia.com/physx/. I was wondering whether this would have any effect on LFS, or does the application need to be programmed to make use of the card?

Quote from goode400 :

There's a physics card on the market http://www.ageia.com/physx/. I was wondering whether this would have any effect on LFS, or does the application need to be programmed to make use of the card?

It needs to be programmed to use that card. Basically game devs need to buy a license from Ageia to use their physics engine to use the card.

I'm very satisfied with the graphics of LFS as they are. (High resolution - 3840x1024 and AA+AF turned on)
I took a look at r-factor a few month ago and most gfx looked like plastic - IMHO - gtr2 isn't any better. LFS looks more real than all other sims I had seen so far.

I really don't care for cars with millions of polygons as long as motions and behavior of cars look realistic - I use LFS for racing and for that purpose it really looks great. Same for skins - nice to have them in Hi-Res - but there are almost no occasions (in race) where I could see a difference to Low-Res.

There are more important things that needs to be done - gfx update should be a matter to S3.

To answer ur question: yes, my system could handle better gfx, but I really dont care for ...

Even a high spec PC can perform poorly if it's not setup right. I know im a bit of a snob when it comes to my PC but I have a seperate Games PC that only ever gets games installed and is rebuilt often. Its always run perfectly well apart from TDU where i have to drop the resolution and quality down.

AMD64 X2 4600+
1gb RAM
6800GT 256

The 6800 gt's overclocked to 411 mhz and LFS runs about 90fps and never drops below 70. I think the key is to have as little as possible running in the backgroud, I only have games on this box, no other apps that slow your system down.

I'd have no problem with a graphic upgrade. I can run most new software at almost full detail as it is, so an improvement wouldn't slow me down.

I assume what causes the serious frame rate drop is that all of the physics are calculated for each car, whether it's on the screen or not. And when they are on-screen, the graphics are more CPU driven than GPU. More stress on CPU = lower rates.
That said, I'm not sure why the individual car physics are calculated (in multiplayer) rather than just a position/state update. But I'm sure there's a good reason for it

I'm very happy with performance i got from my 4 year old pc:
Athlon 2000 @1666 (not touched)
512 MB (DDR SDRAM)
RAdeon x700 pr0 128

I've got 60-90 alone 30-60 up to 10 cars..15+ it's starting to get worse to about 15-20 fps - full grid now it can slow down to 5-10 which is unplayable
All settings at max with aa x4 af x8.

I think a new pc will be a must when s3 comes out..with s2 i can play almost without problems.

First:
To all the people saying
"my low end pc +/- 3.0Ghz + Geforce 5.x, 6.x, 7.x - series has trouble running this game "

- This is not a low end. After 1 year your rig is already outdated and has trouble to run this game? Come on...
- A pc is not a console, so you need to configure your pc to run games, applications etc... properly


I'm running this game on 2 pc's without problems:

AMD 1800XP
768 SDRam 266Mhz
Geforce 3 TI200
1024 * 768 resolution, no AA or AF
Full starting grid: +/- 25FPS
In race: 40 - 80fps
Ok, the gfx are not the best on this pc, but a simulation is all about the experience, not?
After the latest patch (W for me) the fps went up with +/- 10-15fps


AMD 4400 Dual Core
3 Gig DDR 400Mhz
Nvidia 7800GT 256DDR
1280 * 1024 resolution, max AntiAliasing and full Anisotropic Filtering
Full starting grid: +/- 60-70fps
In race: 90-140fps
Also on this pc, after the latest patch (W for me) the fps went up with +/- 10-15fps, way to go devs


Conclusion:
All the people having a rig between (or lower and higher) these 2 of mine, must be able to run the game without any problem on a descent framerate.
Maybe not on the highest gfx settings, but it's a simulation people.
Sims are not meant to have the greatest eye-candy imo.
Nowadays people are focused too much on gfx. You can see the results on the (PC) games-market: Great looking games, the newest effects etc... but NO playability.
Just be happy this game still runs on older systems with having a great experience. After every patch the frames go up instead of down. This is a lesson other gamedevs could learn from.

Congrats to the LFS dev team, you're doing a hell of a job to keep everyone (not only the people with the latest fancy hardware) happy and playing this baby

Just the 2 cents of a person who grow up in the 80's with the Atari, Commodore gfx games...

I'm on an AMD64 X2 3800+ @ 2.4GHz, GeForce 7900GS Extreme with 2Gb RAM. I only run 4x AA/AF because I sometimes record replays. I also use ElektricKar's 2.0 textures, the HQ tyres and Nice Reflection mod. I run about 140-160FPS solo, which drops to about 50-60 on a full grid. So obviously no problem at all for me.

But I don't even notice the graphics that much. When I'm racing I'm too busy concentrating on braking points and where other drivers are. When I spectating, I'm watching where other people brake and turn, what their speeds are and trying to figure out how I could improve over my own laps.

The texture/reflection mods and AA improved the appearance vastly without any work from Scavier. I recommend them to everyone.

Quote from CSU1 :

ehehehhehe! aa ssf * 16 yeah! 22* 16 - 4 whopa zero icecles fridge freezer * 2, aa ff, kevs a sheep

That made sense to use all.

As for me personally, my current machine wouldn't handle much more but planning on getting a new machine sometime soon so i wouldn't mind it being upgraded.

"No, but i a willing to upgrade my PC for LFS"

Thank god my system should be replaced in about a month. If not, i'm screwed. If more than 7 cars are on the grid my fps skyrockets down to 2 fps for the entire first lap. And i really can't play anything below 5 fps or i can't judge what angle i am turning at or my speed.

Yes, I think I can handle better graphics. But yesterday I just optimised the settings so I won't get under 30 FPS at a 20 people big grid. With AA still on.

I don't really like the options in the poll.
My system is far from 'high-end' and I never built it to be high-end to start with, but I could handle a lot more shiny graphics.

It really disturbs me to see some people with proper high-end PC's and poor framerates. I'd put some serious effort into figuring out what is clogging the performance, because LFS does not require a lot of power to run at the limit. It would probably run just fine on my old gaming rig, which was an Athlon 2600+ with a 9700 Pro and a gig of ram.

Mines a Pentium 2.8, 512 ram, X1600 and it runs great. Not a high end machine but thats the choice I made in the poll as it suits it best and I can handle more graphics than LFS has. My frame rates are near 100 most of the time. Ive been going to bump the ram up a bit but there really is no reason to do it at the moment so I havent.

I think for the most part the game should be geared toward the middle of the road machines or maybe a bit lower. No reason to exclude anyone due to not having a big buck investment in their pc. Besides, thats more money for the devs!

I've got an ATI Radeon x1950 Pro and the ATI Tray Tools do wonders with how LFS looks and runs. You turn on the filtering optimization and the FPS goes sky high.

Interesting discussion.

I think there is something that has been ignored so far.

The market sector for LFS is NOT the same as that for most PC and console games !
It has been shown many times that a significant percentage of LFS users are older people who have financial responsibilities such as car, family, mortgage. Many of these folks are not 'gamers' and cannot justify regularly updating their system just for a 'game' (however good).

(There are also many licenced racers from less afluent countries where a high end PC system is definately a luxury)

Scavier obviously understand this which is why they have made sure from the outset that LFS works well on low end and older systems.

whats more LFS doesn't 'need' cutting edge graphics, its appeal is in its physics, the LFS community and a great online experience - none of which depend on graphics.

I expect I will need to update my system when(if) S3 alphas start appearing as I imagine there will be some graphic updates at that point, but until then I hope to keep my rusty old sack of grinding fan bearings and dusty IDE connectors going.

FWIW, I can usually have a good race, the only times things get bad are T1 incidents with a large field, and on tracks where too many physics objects can be 'activated' at the same time eg. the stcc Fern Bay club chicane.

System is
Athlon XP1800+
Nvidia GeForce 6600
average mem and HD speed for the age

Quote from Dajmin :

I'm on an AMD64 X2 3800+ @ 2.4GHz, GeForce 7900GS Extreme with 2Gb RAM. I only run 4x AA/AF because I sometimes record replays. I also use ElektricKar's 2.0 textures, the HQ tyres and Nice Reflection mod. I run about 140-160FPS solo, which drops to about 50-60 on a full grid. So obviously no problem at all for me.

But I don't even notice the graphics that much. When I'm racing I'm too busy concentrating on braking points and where other drivers are. When I spectating, I'm watching where other people brake and turn, what their speeds are and trying to figure out how I could improve over my own laps.

The texture/reflection mods and AA improved the appearance vastly without any work from Scavier. I recommend them to everyone.

I've found the Reflection mod, can you point me to the ElektricKar's 2.0 textures + HQ tyres pls? I'm not able to find them

Thx!

Quote from Vultureke :

I've found the Reflection mod, can you point me to the ElektricKar's 2.0 textures + HQ tyres pls? I'm not able to find them

Thx!

There you go.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=20033

Thanks Keithano. That'll teach me to go for lunch in the middle of a discussion