Yeh converting would take some time but Scawen will have to do that soon to support effects and other things.
Also most of the current games 3D engines have several path for the different DX9 hardware SM2.0 SM3.0 etc.Getting complicated for Scawen thought.....I would like to see shifting forward with 3D engine because there is more possibilities to offload the work to GPU and using some cool effects without loosing the current performance.Most of the DX9 hardware is now halfway used in LFS so there shouldnt be performance drop adding some effects.

What I mean with the effectivity that when you start using some DX9 pixel/vertex code the effectivnies vary also across the DX9 hardware becaue there is DX9 a,b,c spec and they differ as well.

Also the later DX9 the longer code you can do in one cycle without ususally loosing the performance.

Quote from Scawen :

We've never claimed to be fast and development will always be slower than it was in the early days, as the standard is higher now.

Do you see the LFS team ever growing to include an additional artist or are you satisfied with the progress y'all are making at the moment? or freelance?

And I just want to add that we only bug you for updates and such because we all love LFS and naturally want more of a good thing

Quote from BrandonAGr :

Do you see the LFS team ever growing to include an additional artist or are you satisfied with the progress y'all are making at the moment? or freelance?

Unless they changed their minds recently, Scawen has given an answer to this question on numerous occasions already. That would be a no to additional devs.

What's with the graphics, people? Imho, the graphics are 100% fine. For a racing simulator I don't expect any eye candy and personally I would settle for far less what LFS offers atm..

The higher priorities (what I might consider hgh priority) have nothing to do with graphics, in any form, imho.

DX7, FX5 or DX10, who cares?

Bent radiator in T1 wreckage - 1000€
Overheated engine blowout on 5th lap - 2000€
Ability to make insim apps that know whether you are entering or leving pits - priceless

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Yeh converting would take some time but Scawen will have to do that soon to support effects and other things.

How about we let him finish S2 before we start demanding that he begin work on S3, hmmmmm?

Quote from Hyperactive :

What's with the graphics, people? Imho, the graphics are 100% fine. For a racing simulator I don't expect any eye candy and personally I would settle for far less what LFS offers atm..

The higher priorities (what I might consider hgh priority) have nothing to do with graphics, in any form, imho.

DX7, FX5 or DX10, who cares?

Bent radiator in T1 wreckage - 1000€
Overheated engine blowout on 5th lap - 2000€
Ability to make insim apps that know whether you are entering or leving pits - priceless

Good post. Focus of this game is to realistically simulate racing. And while graphics are certainly a part of that, things like damage that would make people use their brains into T1 should be closer to the forefront.

But it's off topic.

Quote from Hyperactive :

.
DX7, FX5 or DX10, who cares?

The graphic effects like brake fade(glow) is a part of simulation in both physic and graphic way.The word simulation mean to simulate and I am expecting to do it in all areas.Some effects add immersivity as well.

Scawen mentioned he would like to add dynamic weather and thats not possiblw without DX9 at least.

Do you know who cares?Customers and potential buyers.
I bet if LFs would have much better 3D engine showing to people some nice effects there would be much more sold licencies.Why do you think people asking for hi-res textures.Becuase they want better graphic.

Quote from Cue-Ball :

How about we let him finish S2 before we start demanding that he begin work on S3, hmmmmm?

Where I have asked for something like that.....I want S2 to be finished and then finally to improve the 3D engine after the years.there are still some minor/major graphic improvements which needs to be done before S2 final.Lets say shadows under all cars for full S2 should be done.

This is going very offtopic now.I am very happy for Scawen`s small report and thats end the speculation probably.

If you think about it, Scawen has increased the size of the dev team with insim. Lots more is possible now. Scawen hasn't programmed track cycling, but it can be done with Vcom and other tools, for instance.

Quite a lot is possible via insim, and it's so diverse too that we've barely touched the surface so far, from TrackIR headset and G15 keyboard support, to my surround sound software (unfinished + unreleased atm), so much stuff is possible from the hundreds of part time developers in LFS .

In time I hope other areas will be programmable, but all that comes down to the great mod debate, and that's a topic for another day.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Ability to make insim apps that know whether you are entering or leving pits - priceless

If there's something missing from InSim you'd better let me know in the InSim thread in the Programmers section.

Quote from InSim.txt :

struct IS_PLA // Pit LAne
{
byte Size; // 8
byte Type; // ISP_PLA
byte ReqI; // 0
byte PLID; // player's unique id

byte Fact; // pit lane fact (see below)
byte Sp1;
byte Sp2;
byte Sp3;
};

// Pit Lane Facts

enum
{
PITLANE_EXIT, // 0 - left pit lane
PITLANE_ENTER, // 1 - entered pit lane
PITLANE_NO_PURPOSE, // 2 - entered for no purpose
PITLANE_DT, // 3 - entered for drive-through
PITLANE_SG, // 4 - entered for stop-go
PITLANE_NUM
};

Quote from Becky Rose :

If you think about it, Scawen has increased the size of the dev team with insim. Lots more is possible now. Scawen hasn't programmed track cycling, but it can be done with Vcom and other tools, for instance.

Quite a lot is possible via insim, and it's so diverse too that we've barely touched the surface so far, from TrackIR headset and G15 keyboard support, to my surround sound software (unfinished + unreleased atm), so much stuff is possible from the hundreds of part time developers in LFS .

In time I hope other areas will be programmable, but all that comes down to the great mod debate, and that's a topic for another day.

I agree with you a 100% on this one. My mind just runs away with thought when i think about what LFS will be like in the future

Frenchy

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

The graphic effects like brake fade(glow) is a part of simulation in both physic and graphic way.The word simulation mean to simulate and I am expecting to do it in all areas.Some effects add immersivity as well.

Scawen mentioned he would like to add dynamic weather and thats not possiblw without DX9 at least.

...in S3.

Personally the worst news for me would be that the graphics engine overhaul is the next thing on the pipeline, the next big 12 month operation in LFS. Every second spend on the graphics engine is imho better spend on those sim things. Just my take on this

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Do you know who cares?Customers and potential buyers.
I bet if LFs would have much better 3D engine showing to people some nice effects there would be much more sold licencies.Why do you think people asking for hi-res textures.Becuase they want better graphic.

Every thing has a priority level. Some are high priority while some are low priority. Imho graphics priority should be very low because of the other glaring issues with the "simulation" part which is the core of LFS.

EDIT:

Quote from Scawen :

If there's something missing from InSim you'd better let me know in the InSim thread in the Programmers section.

You kinda misunderstood...
LX8 might be nice

Reading all six pages must have broken Scawen's sarcasm-meter?

Quote :

Scawen mentioned he would like to add dynamic weather and thats not possiblw without DX9 at least.

Isn't it? Oh, there was me forgetting that the worlds first computer game only appeared last year.

There's no weather command in DX9. It just adds some rendering options, how those rendering options are used are up to the programmer. Scawen has made an awesome simulation that runs on quite low end computers where others have failed, so it stands to reason that he may be able to do some awesome things without having to rely on the highest specification frameworks that raise system requirements.

He's bloody good is that Scawen lad.

(I think think Eric is the true messiah though)

Quote from Becky Rose :

If you think about it, Scawen has increased the size of the dev team with insim. Lots more is possible now. Scawen hasn't programmed track cycling, but it can be done with Vcom and other tools, for instance.

Quite a lot is possible via insim, and it's so diverse too that we've barely touched the surface so far, from TrackIR headset and G15 keyboard support, to my surround sound software (unfinished + unreleased atm), so much stuff is possible from the hundreds of part time developers in LFS .

In time I hope other areas will be programmable, but all that comes down to the great mod debate, and that's a topic for another day.

Its people like you, scawen, victor and eric that I have so much respect for. (There are others too of course People who put in ALOT of effort for a relatively small audience. And also because you mentioned the magic words - "surround sound". IMO opinion that would help this SIM alot.

I have a nice surround sound setup and when I tested drivers republic that was the first thing that stood out to me, i could hear the cars behind me, behind me

tbh I hadn't conceived doing car sounds in the surround sound engine, I was most interested in adding ambient sounds like crowds and tannoys because they where completely absent. It's not possible to 'accurately' make engine sounds like LFS' and place them because not enough data is available, unfortunately, but the effect could be achieved with a 'canned' sound. Perhaps by suplementing the sound that LFS plays for other cars this might work, but i've not tried.

Sorry to dissapoint.

EDIT: Somebody posted a You Tube video of my teaser you can view here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5peFcgw2UI - it was quite early at the time, but atm is broken by patch X and it's not high on my priorities.

Yeah I've seen that clip tannoy sounds good

Now you've mentioned it, it was pretty dumb to think the actual sounds could be made surround sound but hopefully this will come in the future. I get the impression this could be considerably easier now the sound has changed to be Vista compatible.

Say S2 Final is released by the end of this year. And say getting from S1 to S2 took four years(?). We shouldn't think S3 is going to be released any sooner so by then DX10 would be four years old, most of the new games released are DX10 based, most of us have DX10 cards and S3 is released using DX8/9. I'm not sure the additional market would receive it favourably.

Then again I hope best for the team and wait patiently to see what they come up with (please shadows under the car when in shade

Quote from aaltomar :

Say S2 Final is released by the end of this year....

I'd say you are being VERY optimistic.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

Scawen mentioned he would like to add dynamic weather and thats not possiblw without DX9 at least.

Grand Prix 4 managed to do this in 2002. Granted, the graphics were a bit basic, but the variable weather and effect on the track were nothing short of mind blowing. The number of times I would set up a race but go back to the menu and start again until I got a wet start and drying line later on were countless.

GTR also did dynamic weather using DX8.

Quote from Hyperactive :

You kinda misunderstood...

I see... you were being sarcastic, suggesting that it was a waste of time doing this small requested feature while I was working on that area :

Quote :

Ability to make insim apps that know whether you are entering or leving pits - priceless

But I took your comment at face value - my mistake. But it's silly to suggest (even as a joke) that I shouldn't do something that takes 5 minutes, because you're still waiting for something "more important" that would only take a month or two to do. And it's also a mistake to underestimate the value of InSim, the number of host programs that use it and run now and give so many people a better time online.

It's not a big deal what you've said but it's one of those continual irritations, people criticising me for making some small improvement here or there that I happened to be able to just squeeze in to a test patch, while there are some other things they are waiting for that will take hundreds of hours of work to do. It's so irritating, like a dripping tap. The problem is that I want to take the forum seriously - and I do - which is why the stupid repetitive comments have some effect on me, it's a hard thing to do, to take the sensible comments seriously but be totally unaffected by the misinformed stupid comments.

Actually I think one reason Eric doesn't write anything on the forums is because of the crazy conversations you can get drawn into. It's a mad thing that sometimes you can write 5 lines of text and people start analysing what you say, as if there's "something between the lines" and it's like some kind of cryptic crossword. Then you're back to the forum trying to correct all the mad rumours that have come out of all the misreadings of your original few sentences! That can be HARD!

And what I say always, I have to say again, if our time prioritising is SO BAD, how come LFS exists at all? And those who know so much more than us about how to manage our time, really, try doing it yourself. Don't tell us how to do it. It's just irritating. And let us do the little things as well as the big things, there's only one reason I do this job, because I like to program, including the big things and the small things. Eric does it because he likes to make nice graphics. We don't do it to be analysed and criticised by people who don't know what they are talking about. We don't do it as some kind of speed competition. We take our time and get it right, thanks to the help of the community as well. And I know there are a lot of people out there who like the way we do it. Though probably most of them didn't read this crazy thread!

Scawen, you should do what you feel is right for this game. I'm not a programmer (HTML doesnt count, does it :tilt, but i'm sure i've used it alot when I am online.

So is that a no to a teaser screenshot of what Eric has been working on?

Quote from BrandonAGr :

So is that a no to a teaser screenshot of what Eric has been working on?

Well that would be up to him. And I'm not contacting him to find out. But if I know Eric, he certainly wouldn't encourage this kind of thread by giving anyone a screen shot of anything. He told me it's actually the weird comments he sees around here that put him off writing anything. I think if he thought he could safely have a sensible conversation, he would do so.

Only thing is, although the vast majority of the community are nice sensible people - of course this is a sim, not a FPS so that does attract more mature people on average, still there are quite a few nutters around who type more than they think, or they think a lot but just "crazy" and make rumours out of nothing.

So, although I'm quite different from Eric in that way, and I come here all the time to talk to the sensible people, I can see his point.

...

And now I'm going to unsubscribe from this thead, as I've wasted enough time here already. So don't ask me anything else, I won't see your question.

Quote from BrandonAGr :

So is that a no to a teaser screenshot of what Eric has been working on?

Lol...

I don't ever intend to try to direct the dev's actions, i often find it interesting to see what they are doing, and compare it to my own and others' thoughts on LFS.