Geting abit freaky inhere :> Anyways as my idee got shoot down fast maybe Just a small Msg could be put in When a new player joins mid-race like Race in progress exit pit with caution? did a lots of lap last night and i got into atleast 5 mid race blockers then again i was driveing realy slow lastnight so was no biggy but still it takes the fun out of it abit i mean i dont se new ppl join mid race in any reallife raceing :S
Getting the feeling that you are misunderstanding some basic logical reality of approaching a corner when behind another car. (you're not the only one )
If 2 cars are approaching a slow corner - both drivers are equally skilled, the second car cannot use the braking point he would use when driving alone - otherwise he will HIT THE OTHER CAR ! the car behind must brake earlier that he would when driving alone - not just a little earlier:
At least a car length + gap earlier ! (really a car length + gap earlier than the guy in fronts braking point )
If the car in front is an XRT and the one behind is an FXO, then the one behind must brake at least a cars length + gap earlier than XRT braking point (not FXO braking point which is often later !).
some basic logic:
(s)he is in front
he will reach the optimum braking point sooner
he will brake at this point
when he brakes he will slow down rapidly
if you don't brake when he brakes you will be going much faster
if you are going much faster and the gap was tiny, you will hit him If you hit him in this manner it is your fault
Basically if you don't brake WHEN HE BRAKES you will smash into him - pretty simple....
the only exception I can think of is when you feel you can brake late enough to get a fair overlap before he begins turning... of course, in that scenario, you have to move over to pull along side - can't just out brake him up his rear :-o
The fact that you are having to brake much earlier then you would on a clear lap to avoid contact does not mean that the other driver is driving defensive or trying to trick you or any other sneaky tactic - they're just braking for the corner
I have watched you racing and tapping other drivers - when I watched, none of them were braking early or over cautiously, and none of them were trying to 'catch you out' in any way, you were just going in a little too hot and nudging them !
Anyway, if the car in front brakes in the braking zone for a corner and you tap them you must wait for them to recover control of their car before you start racing them again (even if you lose places).
If they brake unfairly in a way designed to cause a crash, then report them and they will be dealt with (assuming it was an unfair move)
Yes. In finnish words and feet are similar words. Words = sanat and feet = jalat. So you can jokingly say feet instead of words. Doesn't work so well in english though
Following on from what col said, the CTRA Silver+ servers are and always have been intended as pro-level servers. If you cannot drive without tapping/bumping other drivers at the entrance into corners then you are not pro-level.
If you can only gain a place by costing someone else their race (i.e. colliding with them, sending them wide or into a barrier etc) then you will always fall foul of the rules on these servers and can expect to be heavily penalised if reported.
I have watched you race to and pushing me in the back to make me slide
"misunderstanding some basic logical reality of overtaking".. And ofc i do know that all cars got diffrent breakpoints and so does ppl.
But the ones i was refering to was the ones that know thy are slower so thy get into a defensive driveing stile sawying all over (blocking) and pre break so you have to slam break with cause lockups. i did a littel frap movie but it turned out to be 1.5gig so i need to find propper tools to make it smaller, But ones i can il show what i mean since English is not main langish and i got dyslexi so it might be hard to understand what i mean
I apologise, I shouldn't have made this 'personal'...
I don't pretend to be a perfect driver, I know I make mistakes, and do sometimes tap other drivers - thing is, after I tap someone, I wait for them to regain control before racing them again - the only time I would consider overtaking someone after contact is if they had already spun or hit the wall and that error had caused the contact e.g. I had been unsighted or unable to avoid. IMO that makes a huge difference. If there are any incidents of me misreading the situation and taking an unfair advantage, I'll be happy to accept a suitable licence/points reduction
anyhow, back to the topic:
Its not about cars/people having different breaking points, it's about understanding the many possible reasons why YOU might have to brake earlier than you would like - and accepting that if you get it wrong, you have to let the driver you hit regain the place in front you and get back up to racing speed before challenging them again.
With an online sim, lots of things can cause trouble - maybe you over estimated the ability of the driver in front.... maybe its just LAG or one of those LFS "WeeJimmy|><| left the pits" stutter glitches that caused the incident !
Lets say it was nobodies fault, just a slight lag meant that reacting quick enough was not possible... in that case, it isn't your fault, and its not the other drivers fault, so the outcome should be that you both keep the same place you had with respect to each other in the race ie. they stay ahead of you ! its only fair ...
Maybe the driver in front got a stutter glitch while braking and got a little out of shape - again, not his fault and not yours - again if you hit the back of him as a result, the fair outcome is to ease off and let them get it back under control...
OK, so to expect that kind of fair play from everyone would be very naive, which is why there are nice simple rules
I've come agross some of these "tactical" drivers before. It's very occasional I must stress.
I'd class them as "corner spoilers" and it works like this. Just as you are both about hit the acceleraton zone of the corner, he will dab his brakes in front of you. I brake too, naturally to avoid running into him but in that split second, he's back on the power and away. I'm still taking my foot off the brake. It's a sucker punch and totally unsportman like. It's usually played out in very slow corners or one line chicanes. It can be very exasperating.
That's not to say that all who dab brakes on and off round corners are suspects as I do it all the time as I steer quite a lot with my brakes (trailbraking) But this technique is used on totally different, faster corners to that of the "corner spoiler" who prefers the tighter ones where he can make most impact at losing his opponents momentum. Oh yea, if he gets clouted, he can cry foul too
Reminds me of a real life incident where some guy took his hand-brake off on a steep hill to move forward but couldn't hold it on the clutch and rolled back into a car behind him. The guy in the car behind got convicted for careless driving for failing to leave enough space (maybe the next county might have been sufficient) It didn't seem to matter that the clown in front couldn't actually drive.
While I'm at it, I'll have just one more little rant. This time about RB4 drivers who jump FXOs off the line for position. Fair enough, but what I don't like is some who think they can just barge me out of the way or stick me in a barrier with their "I'm comin' through/over you, ready or not" attitude. So they get up the front and manage to hold their stolen places for a corner or 2 before spinning/colliding or generally making a tit of themselves for the whole field to see. What's the point of trying to lead the field if you can't run at a decent race pace? There are some great RB4 drivers and they just don't do these things. Well they overtake me off the line but it's clean and I don't feel like I've been mugged and then I can have a race with them, which is nice.
Although I have a CTRA silver license, I know that my racing skills and my lack of experience with the silver cars and tracks isn't up to the pro standard expected on the silver servers. As such, I won't join them until I feel able to be relatively competitive. Perhaps it's too easy to get a silver license at the moment?
It's certainly getting easier to loose your silver and above licences at the minute...
Swiss, I agree with one of your two points... . The process you describe is called Brake Testing.
Now I will happily use every trick in the book to keep you behind me, through a slow corner I will delay getting on the power well beyond the apex if it means you have to get out of the throttle. This is racing, and it is part of race craft.
However using the brakes to achieve this is dangerous, that's why it has it's own name, and in real racing you can loose your competition licence very quickly by doing it (Michael Schumacher once did a brake test in the tunnel at Monaco. 2 cars retired, including himself. Had it been anyone else they would not have been back in a Formula 1 car - Schumacher blamed Montoyo for not seeing his car in the pitch blackness).
So yes, that is a move that is against the rules. Remember, you can fail to accelerate, but you cannot brake, to foil another drivers acceleration out of the corner.
On the RB4's at the startline, good luck to them. Maybe I dont get what you mean, but the RB4 can pass up to 4 cars or so at the start of a race and they are entitled to any places they make - provided the passes are legal of course.
Thats a possibility but then it could be said if it's too easy to get a silver license where are the replays for us to view to prevent these people from gaining licenses?
Yes, this can be really annoying - often in xrt, the guys in front are FXOs, I will pull into the centre to go between the two fxos in fornt - the number of times an RB4 has tried and often succeeded in barging me out of the way is amazing... the attitude seems to be "I'm faster off the line so you MUST get out of the way, if you don't I will hit you !".
There is a flip side of course, many times I've moved up along side an FXO during the start only to be squeezed off the track or smashed into the barriers... thats the "Just because you start faster and got up alongside cleanly doesn't give you the right to pass me sucker".
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Heres another common one that really annoys me - I'd like to know what other think about this:
Most obvious at SO classic... first lap, approaching hairpin. At least one driver will move over to the inside and brake very late having to almost stop by the apex.. the cars following the 'correct' line, have to brake very early a long way before the turn in point because they are in a queue, so he gets his 'fair' overlap on a few of the other cars, and they feel obliged to let him have the apex...
So whats the ruling on this one ?
Does a queue of cars count as one car and you have to have overlap on the front car to have corner rights on the inside ?
Does the normal ruling change from '50% overlap at turn in point' to '50% overlap at braking point' ?
I would have thought that if you're not in the queue, you really should be forced to wait for the queue to pass ?
In real races I've watched, I don't remember seeing cars going three wide into T1 when its a hairpin - is that normal ?
Should I be moving right over to the inside of the track and braking late to defend against the guy behind ? I do do this if I've lost places in an earlier race and it does work, but it doesn't feel right to me... sometimes it is the only way to defend your position depending on who is behind.
CTRA has been going for a while now, I would guess that the majority of experienced and fast racers have got their silver by now, and although some of them still race on the bronze servers for fun, it must be easier to get a decent finishing position than it was a few months ago?
It is rare that two drivers in LFS can get along, let alone get along so well that they can be considered 1 car. Every car on the track is an individual, taking the inside line is perfectly valid and legal - provided your overall driving is clean. At the first couple of turns in any race the racing line is rarely the best route to take.
Um, are you sure? It's happened in just about every race i've ever watched - 2 or 3 wide for at least 2 corners. The procession starts later...
You are free to take the inside line, braking late will result in accidents. At turn 1 you should always brake earlier and gently to avoid causing crashes.
The inside line is the shortest route around a corner, it is therefore the fastest route in cases where mommentum does not need to be maintained. At the start of the race where your speed is limited by the car in front racing line becomes irrelevent, you can therefore save more time by taking a shorter route, thus gaining places.
It is almost always better to be on the inside, I always try to work my way over to the inside, in fact I hate starting in P2/4/6/8 etc. I'd rather be 3rd than 2nd on the grid.
Do a first race, let the majority of drivers ahead...
During this race do you possible to run as fast as possible and do you best and stable time, because majority of drivers are ahead normaly you are not going to disturb them.
At the end of this first race look at your time compare it with other drivers. (you can also check their own progression in the CTRA licence)
So after this first race you know :
What is your best time
If you are stable or if your best time is only due to luck !
You know what is the best time of other drivers and you could see were you are.
If you check their licence you know also there levels
So, for the next race:
It makes no sense to try to beat drivers that are at 2 or more seconds faster than you. Let then ahead, try to follow then, it is very helpfull to understand how to drive clean and faster.
Advantage:
You don't disturb better driver than you,
You will be probably cleaner driver
You could benefits of good drivers lesson learn (trying to follow them)
Of course all of that is supplementary "trick" and the rules are to be follow with no discussion possible.
At least he realized that it was his fault, and even showed it by action: left the server, and didn't continue to race like nothing has happened. As for T2, I don't think he was at fault, he kept his line, but the driver left of him turned into him.
And as Kev said, naming is really not welcome on this forum.
Well after reading this thread it seems to me some racers havent got the respect for other drivers. I am half way now getting my silver license. I would like to have it today instead of tommorow but I only want to have it in a fair way. Not by pushing other drivers off track.
Before I enter the race I always watch the drivers who already are running. I compare there laptimes with mine and so I know who is fatser or slower. That way you know which car to pass or give him room to let you overtake. I Never join a race half way. Because you holddup the fast ones and you dont get a good lape time doing so.
But the majority of drivers now a days are good. Off course there are some whreckers and chrashers. Just ignore them no matter how difficult it is. To have fun you have to respect each other. If you dont respect each other why the hell are you racing online anyway ??.
did a lots of lap last night and i got into atleast 5 mid race blockers 
then again i was driveing realy slow lastnight so was no biggy 
but still it takes the fun out of it abit i mean i dont se new ppl join mid race in any reallife raceing :S
It didn't seem to matter that the clown in front couldn't actually drive. 