No one cares about you Foqsy
Love you really 
No one cares about you Foqsy
Love you really 20 UTC (21 wouldnt be a problem i guess)
Prefer the idea of multiple short races than 1 long one, stuff the mandatory pit stops and OTT qualifying sessions, surely everyone can put in 1 decent lap in 15min, those that cant do that will have more action coming through the field.
BTW, im pretty sure that BTCC rules is
R1 = Qual order
R2 = R1 finishing order
R3 = Reversed first 6-10 drivers (depending on where the wheel lands, as spun by R2's winner, if it lands on 7 then the 1st 7 cars are reversed, 8-10 stay as they are, meaning you cant 'plan' where you start for R3)
A lot of races tend to just get stretched out as time goes by, just like F1 and most races, strategies rarely come into play and very little seems to change as races pass. 2-3 shortish (3x 20min w/ 2-3min break) races means more action and fun for those on the track, it also allows more points to be picked up, if something goes wrong your time practicing for the event isnt quite ruined, and i dont think people would make rash decisions because there is 3 chances either.
Infact, suprised it hasnt been mentioned seeing as its an (mostly) Aussie ran series, but the V8 series could be worth copying, with their Bathurst and Sandown single round races, the odd 2 race round and a majority of 3 round races.
Always the same number of points up for grabs each weekend (V8 uses 360? 3x120/2x180/1x360) meaning no single round/venue is more important than the other.
I think that would work perfectly, the smaller tracks (AS2) used for the 3 race rounds, medium for the 2 race rounds (FE2, SO5) and loooong tracks for 1 race rounds (AS6, SO4).
Mix things up a little
Prefer the idea of multiple short races than 1 long one, stuff the mandatory pit stops and OTT qualifying sessions, surely everyone can put in 1 decent lap in 15min, those that cant do that will have more action coming through the field.
BTW, im pretty sure that BTCC rules is
R1 = Qual order
R2 = R1 finishing order
R3 = Reversed first 6-10 drivers (depending on where the wheel lands, as spun by R2's winner, if it lands on 7 then the 1st 7 cars are reversed, 8-10 stay as they are, meaning you cant 'plan' where you start for R3)
A lot of races tend to just get stretched out as time goes by, just like F1 and most races, strategies rarely come into play and very little seems to change as races pass. 2-3 shortish (3x 20min w/ 2-3min break) races means more action and fun for those on the track, it also allows more points to be picked up, if something goes wrong your time practicing for the event isnt quite ruined, and i dont think people would make rash decisions because there is 3 chances either.
Infact, suprised it hasnt been mentioned seeing as its an (mostly) Aussie ran series, but the V8 series could be worth copying, with their Bathurst and Sandown single round races, the odd 2 race round and a majority of 3 round races.
Always the same number of points up for grabs each weekend (V8 uses 360? 3x120/2x180/1x360) meaning no single round/venue is more important than the other.
I think that would work perfectly, the smaller tracks (AS2) used for the 3 race rounds, medium for the 2 race rounds (FE2, SO5) and loooong tracks for 1 race rounds (AS6, SO4).
Mix things up a little
dude that's an awesome idea, that's what i've been trying to do but... maybe Arrow will listen to you instead of me
itd be different, and for those who like long distance they will be happy, for those who like short, they will be happy, i like both.. but its not about me.
arrow please consider!!!
Actually, Arrow. Are the entries for coming season is invite-only or?
We are definitely interested, and would like to have a pre-qualify if there are two sections. If our time falls on the second section, we are glad to race on that. Else, it's good to know and compete with some great teams.
We are definitely interested, and would like to have a pre-qualify if there are two sections. If our time falls on the second section, we are glad to race on that. Else, it's good to know and compete with some great teams.
All Team that completed in Season 1 and team who were invited but unable to make it Will be invited back
and we will also have a sign up.
Paul i think we should keep it simple, that way we have a clear winner.
Approach #1 - Failure
Time to put #2 in action....
Arrow, multiple races allows anyone who left their AV software on to wreck their races the chance to at least make up for it in the other races
I would have thought in the interest of keeping things entertaining and fun to be in the shorter races would have been more suited, with 1 race the emphasis is on qualifying and the first say 4-10 laps and after that very little happens because everyone is spread out and going at their usual pace. If it wasnt for pit-stops last season there probably wouldnt have been more than 2-3 changes out on track per round after the opening few laps.
The clear winner of a V8 3 race round is whoever comes away with the most points from the 3 races. The clear winner of F1 is typically whoever is on pole (or whoever is leading by about turn 3). I know which is the more fun to watch, and i say that having watched F1 religiously since the age of 10, including the good old days when Eurosports used to show the practice sessions on Friday & Saturday mornings (or Thurs/Sat for Monaco), its the pinicle of motorsports, but boy is it dull as hell after a few laps when rain doesnt come along and make things interesting!!
Thats just my opinion though.
Time to put #2 in action....
Arrow, multiple races allows anyone who left their AV software on to wreck their races the chance to at least make up for it in the other races
I would have thought in the interest of keeping things entertaining and fun to be in the shorter races would have been more suited, with 1 race the emphasis is on qualifying and the first say 4-10 laps and after that very little happens because everyone is spread out and going at their usual pace. If it wasnt for pit-stops last season there probably wouldnt have been more than 2-3 changes out on track per round after the opening few laps.
The clear winner of a V8 3 race round is whoever comes away with the most points from the 3 races. The clear winner of F1 is typically whoever is on pole (or whoever is leading by about turn 3). I know which is the more fun to watch, and i say that having watched F1 religiously since the age of 10, including the good old days when Eurosports used to show the practice sessions on Friday & Saturday mornings (or Thurs/Sat for Monaco), its the pinicle of motorsports, but boy is it dull as hell after a few laps when rain doesnt come along and make things interesting!!
Thats just my opinion though.
You have a good point there Paul, and I think it's something worth considering.
i've been due one for the last year or 2, finally a worthwhile point
Good idears Paul! I prefer those ideas.
If something happens race one, then have an oppertunity to make up in race 2. IF very unlucky in race 2 also, race 3 you start 1st hahaha.
Best idea yet.
If something happens race one, then have an oppertunity to make up in race 2. IF very unlucky in race 2 also, race 3 you start 1st hahaha.
Best idea yet
.What is you opinion on 8,9,10,11, UTC
what best suit you guys?
what best suit you guys?
11 UTC, is this 11am or 11pm?
11am
That got binned the second Cyber decided they couldnt race at any other time because 'coz people like to go out with friends and everything' and because its an Aussie team organising it they'll happily latch onto anything that means no 7am starts for them. As i said last time round when start times were being discussed, they're an Aussie team wanting the best teams to take part but basically want to do it at a time thats convenient to them, but that means its a shit time for everyone else.
11UTC means:
4:00am USA West Coast
8:00am USA East Coast
12:00pm BST
1:00pm CET
2:00pm EET
8:00pm Aus West Coast
10:00pm Aus East Coast
Thats including Daylight Saving Time, which about half of the series will observe, when it leaves DST it goes back an hour meaning 3am/7am/11am/12pm/1pm/7pm/9pm for the above.
meaning...
if your in the America's, thanks for looking, cya round some time.
if your in Europe, wave goodbye to your Saturdays.
if your in Australia, all peachy.
Also, anyone competing in MoE will be racing at the same time as BOTT, either on the same day occasionally or on an alternative day but thats then 3 out of 4 saturdays gone to LFS.
What this also highlights is why its stupid to try and organise endurance length races, the Yanks wont fancy 4hrs racing starting at 5am (average usa time), the Europeans wont want to give up a whole saturday to BOTT and MoE once a month, and the Aussies worst case scenario stay up till about 1am.
Not to worry though folks, a better alternative was offered to me the other day, apparently 11UTC on Friday could be managable, all the Europeans will take a day off work or school/college/Uni whatever and the Yanks will get up at a stupid time and go straight to work afterwards with a couple hours sleep. The Aussies will give up.... friday evenings.
At <18 UTC then Mercury isnt taking part, we went through this last time round and didnt have a single person saying they'd be able to manage it, the America's get screwed completely and the Europeans sacrifice a Saturday afternoon every other week on top of MoE.
Chill down guys. 
The time is not final, Josh is just asking for opinions. But anyway, and sadly, no matter what time is suggested it will suck for some people. Personally, I would like it to take place as late as possible in the evening, so it would not be too early for the Australians and should be manageable by the Americans to join also. But of course, if the majority of drivers signing up only have drinking and partying on their mind every Saturday evening, then we have a problem.
The time is not final, Josh is just asking for opinions. But anyway, and sadly, no matter what time is suggested it will suck for some people. Personally, I would like it to take place as late as possible in the evening, so it would not be too early for the Australians and should be manageable by the Americans to join also. But of course, if the majority of drivers signing up only have drinking and partying on their mind every Saturday evening, then we have a problem.Considering that was what Josh told Cyber less than 24hrs ago it seems pretty final to me, and not asking for opinions.
If 11UTC is what all other teams feel is the best option then go with it, but Mercury isnt interested in giving up a whole saturday afternoon to BOTT, if it had the stature of MoE then that'd be a different matter, but nobody in our team was interested in using time they'd normally spend with the missus shopping (else earache), or spent with kids or mates on their day off work. If it was at 6pm for example when the daytime is done and evening/night hasnt started then its fair enough, but slap bang in the middle of a saturday is pretty poop when the majority of the people you want competing are the ones being put out. Less than 1/10th of the people racing last season were Australasian, maybe 1/10th from the America's and the rest were Europeans, its your series to organise as you want it and if that means you dont want 7am starts then scrap them, but obviously cancelling a time thats inconvenient to 1/10 of the entrants to one thats inconvenient to 2/5 is your call to make, and im just pointing out that an Pre-evening UTC start time wouldnt suit Mercury and i doubt we'd be taking part in it. Not asking you to change it, if its convenient then we'll put a team out, if it isnt then we wont, not fussed.
Unfortunately we saw last season when Thunder decided they couldnt be arsed any longer and Ocrana & Cyber didnt want to compete that there wasnt a consistant challenge and it made things a little uninteresting when Thunder werent there, and if Cyber cant race at a decent time then its an either/or and without a couple of equally competitive teams to challenge you its boring, whether at the front, middle or back you want something to challenge you. Without decent challenge theres no motivation, and nobody arsed about putting themselves out on a saturday afternoon when they have other things they want to do, and apparently its the same for Cyber wanting to keep their Sat Nights free (fair play to them), but unless theres a Cyber/Ocrana(whatever they're called are this month)/Thunder challenge on the track (or 1ST stepping up a notch as they seem to for MoE) then if its inconveniently timed then its not worth the hassle of trying to pester people to do something they dont want to or put out a so-so team to satisfy obligations to the event.
Take all that however you want, I cant be arsed BS'ing an opinion when really i mean something else, thats how it is. Not asking/demanding for the time to be changed, just saying that the noon (EU) start means we dont have drivers wanting to race, and an evening start with no competitive Cyber-esque teams to race with is not much better either, we'd race but field mixed drivers and see how many we can manage again, win or lose.
I had no reply so i spoke to a few people on msn
and the thing you have to remember is its a team events so share the rounds between all you members like last year..
how about we do 50/50 11utc and 21utc
August 25th - Kyoto Ring National Reverse - XFG/XRG (11utc)
September 8th - South City Town - MRT (21utc)
September 22nd - Westhill International - XFR/UFR (11utc)
October 6th - Aston North - TBO (21utc)
October 20th - Blackwood GP - GTR (11utc)
November 3rd - Fern Bay Green Reverse - LRF (21utc)
November 17th - Kyoto Ring Long - F08 (11utc)
December 1st - Aston Grand Touring Reverse - FOX(21utc)[/color]
this way it suits people who like to race in day and nite
I dont really mind what time its on, aslong it is on a Saturday. I cant sunday because if at 11am, i would have to go at 12, for mass
So just keep it on a Saturday, its much easier 
So just keep it on a Saturday, its much easier 21 UTC is best for R4R. We are largely an older (30+) team and probably would struggle to put a team out if it was held at 11 UTC as some of us have children to entertain.
Arrow is changing the time because of Cyber team. You can probably view that from Cyber team forum.
http://www.cyber-racing.org/fo ... 7&st=0&#entry6777
No offense at all. I know that will be great to invite one of the best LFS teams to join this series. Anyway, it's kinda confusing for the 2nd division of BOTT, I think a qualification should be run before to determine what teams are going to participate in Div 1 and 2.
There are some great teams over there in Div. 2 recently if the rules do not change. Spdo team is one of them, while getting the 1st runner up in the LFS 24h race. If Arrow insists the subjective view of those teams that are being invited by Fusion Racing to join BOTT are gonna be participating in Div. A, then I think Div. B is meaningless. I watched many replays of BOTT as I kinda like this league, IMO there are racers that are not up to standard for Div. A. That is my own opinion, and I'm not referring any particular teams in the last BOTT season.
Well. Let's see
No one has even commented on my suggestion im trying to make it fair for all timezones here
and no i aint changing the time because of Cyber they suggested it, It works better for Aussies, and i thought it would be better your europeans as well being mid day.
The Thing you have to remember is its a team event, share the rounds between the team each round will only be 1 hour and 30mins max now
Seems a fair compromise - it's one Saturday per month that would be punctuated by a midday for Europeans.
Wow, its amazing how you managed to quote what i'd said while conveniently missing out the fact that you went to others saying the start time was now 11UTC. So THAT isnt you asking for an opinion, thats you making a decision and telling people thats when things are starting so dont give me the bullshit from what you were doing days ago when someone claims your still asking for opinions while your actually telling others a decision has been made! Spin it however you like, but fact is you've since started telling others the start time was now 11UTC.
As i've said, run the event how you want, but if its inconvenient and our drivers dont want to be inconvenienced for BOTT then we wont enter. Im not arsed if we compete in BOTT and i dont think any of our drivers are fussed either, but if its at a time when we can field a decent team then we will, if not then we wont be defending our title. Last season was crap as we had no consistant challenge like Thunder provided so it was easy to just field random people including some who hadnt driven in an event before and people who didnt even like the cars they were driving, but the fact that we could do that and get away with it showed there wasnt a decent challenge at the top, if Cyber and hopefully Thunder if they decide to start the series are competing then we'd field our strongest sides more frequently, last year we fielded our best 2 for any given combo once (GTRs, purely because we know Thunder would give us a good race) the rest of the time it was a case of whoever was free that day to practice and race for it.
Ultimately the whole problem with the start time isnt when its convenient for Europeans, because im pretty sure that could be nailed down with very little effort, but because of the Aussie organisation it means it has to be convenient for you whereas before you'd get screwed and Europe would run it when it was good for them. If Fusion were European there wouldnt be a problem, but they're not and that compromises things.
So make it 18UTC which im sure is fine for most Europeans, the thing you have to remember is its a team event and share the rounds between the team each round will only be 1 hour and 30min max now.
Just to clear up some stuff here, I talked to Arrow and just told my and teams view on the matter that the given times back then 20/21UTC isnt suitable for most of us in the team. The fact is that most of us in the team wants to keep the late evenings free.
And yes we are expecting competition and that is one of the reasons why we were ready to enter the league when being invited, but it dont make any sense to participate then if teams drop out just because the time doesnt suit them. To keep the motivation up there have to be the challenge there. We hope you can find suitable times for most of the teams, hopefully every each of them but as reading what been said here its hard and there gotta be compromises. The majority counts here and if the later start time is better, then just go with it. We will go with the decision whatever it will be made regarding the time or date and see what we can make out of it.
And yes we are expecting competition and that is one of the reasons why we were ready to enter the league when being invited, but it dont make any sense to participate then if teams drop out just because the time doesnt suit them. To keep the motivation up there have to be the challenge there. We hope you can find suitable times for most of the teams, hopefully every each of them but as reading what been said here its hard and there gotta be compromises. The majority counts here and if the later start time is better, then just go with it. We will go with the decision whatever it will be made regarding the time or date and see what we can make out of it.
Actually, 5 out 13 members in Fusion are from Australia, making the majority of the team European. So if something is bad for the Europeans in the other teams, surely that would apply to the Europeans in our team as well?
I still maintain my opinion of a start late in the evening, mostly because I'm an old man and doesn't go out drinking every weekend anymore.
I still maintain my opinion of a start late in the evening, mostly because I'm an old man and doesn't go out drinking every weekend anymore.
sracer:
Same thing for us, just that daytime doesnt work for our lot like evenings dont for you guys, but basically the appeal of the series drops considerably if there isnt someone there pushing you to do your best.
It seems almost pointless for us to compete in the series if there isnt competition like Cyber & Thunder in the series, we ran the majority of last season like that and i think we managed to get 13 of our 16 members taking part and there was only 16 seats (8 races, 2 cars) and we still had the series wrapped up with 1 round to go.
We basically need a Mclaren to our Ferrari, otherwise were racing BMWs and Renaults. I'd sooner have a scrap and come 2nd to a top team than win the series because there isnt competition there. Not arsed about winning, its about having competition and some sort of challenge, last season it was to see how many drivers we could field and see if we could still win, but the lack of consistant results from competitors made even that pretty easy.
The series needs a Cyber-esque team for us to compete, we certainly dont want a case of 'its either us or them', we'd like more from that class of competition.
Same thing for us, just that daytime doesnt work for our lot like evenings dont for you guys, but basically the appeal of the series drops considerably if there isnt someone there pushing you to do your best.
It seems almost pointless for us to compete in the series if there isnt competition like Cyber & Thunder in the series, we ran the majority of last season like that and i think we managed to get 13 of our 16 members taking part and there was only 16 seats (8 races, 2 cars) and we still had the series wrapped up with 1 round to go.
We basically need a Mclaren to our Ferrari, otherwise were racing BMWs and Renaults. I'd sooner have a scrap and come 2nd to a top team than win the series because there isnt competition there. Not arsed about winning, its about having competition and some sort of challenge, last season it was to see how many drivers we could field and see if we could still win, but the lack of consistant results from competitors made even that pretty easy.
The series needs a Cyber-esque team for us to compete, we certainly dont want a case of 'its either us or them', we'd like more from that class of competition.
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