Sims vs Real Life
decent article, just skimmed it, ill give it a proper read later.
Random and completely unrelated question, but please tell me that kartsim wont be on the gmotor2 engine >_<. just from one of the video's it had that "look" about it.
Random and completely unrelated question, but please tell me that kartsim wont be on the gmotor2 engine >_<. just from one of the video's it had that "look" about it.
Very nice article...
Nice article 
but like I've said before I don't believe for a minute that 120000 different people sit down and watch an STCC race each month, seeing as that's far more than the licensed number of LFS users, let alone active users. I'd rather these silly numbers weren't used as it makes the STCC and LFS loose credibility.
but like I've said before I don't believe for a minute that 120000 different people sit down and watch an STCC race each month, seeing as that's far more than the licensed number of LFS users, let alone active users. I'd rather these silly numbers weren't used as it makes the STCC and LFS loose credibility.120,000?? lol
#6
- Becky Rose
The most viewed episodes of the STCC reached over 120,000 downloads + streams, mostly downloads. Mostly thanks to some good linkage. We didn't sustain it sadly, but i'm not lying so **** off.
So your telling me 120,000 people watched the same STCC video in its entirety? I just don't believe that if you're talking about people who simply clicked on it then got bored on youtube that's different. Achieving 100 times less than that number of regular viewers would be a huge achievement for such a specialist broadcast and that's the kind of maximum numbers that I think probably routinely watch the STCC broadcasts.
The STCC broadcasts aren't targeted at LFSers, firstly, they're targeted at motorsports enthusiasts. You need to start thinking differently about the STCC broadcasts and understand that they don't just appeal to LFSers.
Secondly there are NO errors in the site logs. I have separated out the impressions from the downloads, and the site bandwidth usage confirms the figures. Two of the broadcasts have cleared 120,000 downloads. The others continue to approach that figure.
Damn right too. It is A HUGE achievement.
Yes it is. Claiming you have 10, if not 100 times more downloads than I believe is a reasonable figure isn't. I fail to see where you get 100,000 extra people to come along and download a large video from, what were they looking for? I really think something's not quite right here, not trying to be funny just I don't believe the figures because they make no logical sense to me and I doubt many other non-STCC related LFSers will be convinced by them.
How is it so hard to believe, what was the number of viewers of the 24 hours this year? Didn't it approach somewhere near 1 million? Why fight it ajp, STCC has been going on for a quite some time now, why is it hard to believe a mere 120,000 people watched a season?
Because I still don't understand where 95% of those viewers are coming from, random people watch youtube videos, they don't download large specialist videos in there hundreds and thousands, the STCC broadcast with the highest number of views on Google + youtube is 10596 combined, it is also incidentally the first one, I think probably that's mostly LFSers who, like myself, liked the idea but in the end found the program was too long and rather dry and didn't really offer much over the conventional shorter videos. Now I believe there would have been a good number of downloads, maybe the same or twice again but not 110000 downloads. I rather feel that this claim was made and they're now trying to make it fact, I really don't want to have a fight about this I really respect what Becky and Sam achieved through the STCC but I do rather feel at times they get rather engrossed and miss the real picture what they've done is fantastic but I don't believe for a minute that the STCC is spelling the end for grassroots motorsport.
More people tend to download things like that than youtube them mainly because of quality issues.
But you also have to keep in mind, a "view" means someone could have downloaded it a couple of times increaseing the number of views.. a couple of times.
But you also have to keep in mind, a "view" means someone could have downloaded it a couple of times increaseing the number of views.. a couple of times.
I have nothing to prove to you ajp. I respected you once, but just outright calling me a liar and attacking me in the last few posts i've seen you post in has diminished that respect.
Whatever your gripe is, take it up with the admins of whatever you where banned/flamed/crashed out from.
If you want to direct things my way you just become part of a little minority that attack the "Becky Rose" because it's something untangeable, something bigger than just a person behind a keyboard.
But I assure you that "Becky Rose " is not a thing, i'm a real person and I dont take well to being called a liar.
The frustrating thing is I dont think I have logs any more, I might have a look if I can be bothered, but it'll be tomorrow when I get home from work (not 1am in the morning) and that means it'll be during the time I would be developing, and if I cant find anything to prove it (it was a few months ago) then I spend longer looking and basically, what's the frigging point because all I would be able to dig up is a text file that you'll accuse me of manipulating.
So what's the point. Your word versus mine. Another chink in the STCC to add to 'rumours' and whatever else.
It's a wonder why I ****ing bother sometimes. I have tried to do so much - but some of you ****s just spit in my face. I even tried walking away and got asked back, and then I come back and what do I find? You.
Whatever your gripe is, take it up with the admins of whatever you where banned/flamed/crashed out from.
If you want to direct things my way you just become part of a little minority that attack the "Becky Rose" because it's something untangeable, something bigger than just a person behind a keyboard.
But I assure you that "Becky Rose " is not a thing, i'm a real person and I dont take well to being called a liar.
The frustrating thing is I dont think I have logs any more, I might have a look if I can be bothered, but it'll be tomorrow when I get home from work (not 1am in the morning) and that means it'll be during the time I would be developing, and if I cant find anything to prove it (it was a few months ago) then I spend longer looking and basically, what's the frigging point because all I would be able to dig up is a text file that you'll accuse me of manipulating.
So what's the point. Your word versus mine. Another chink in the STCC to add to 'rumours' and whatever else.
It's a wonder why I ****ing bother sometimes. I have tried to do so much - but some of you ****s just spit in my face. I even tried walking away and got asked back, and then I come back and what do I find? You.
Actually there is one more point I want to make. The STCC is one of the smallest projects i've been involved in for years, prior to taking up LFS I was making freeware and reaching over a million new users a month. I started theis 'LFS broadcast project' expecting not to do as well for the first few years as it was a new market, but with the hope to reach those kinds of figures.
For me, the STCC is a project with a significant time investment for a trivial return and little marketting opportunity. I would never have started it if I didn't think I could reach 100,000 viewers by season end. I didn't expect it when it happened, and I was dissapointed not to sustain it (the last two haven't done as well) - but there is just no way I would ever have put that much effort into something to get four figure viewing figures.
I think you need to re-evaluate your comprehension of the scale of the internet.
As for me, I could do a lot better for myself by returning to what i'm good at which is making games. I am sticking around to develop the CTRA X-System, but there's things I want to be getting on with - because i'm fed up of the stress of dealing with the LFS community for the piddling return and small opportunity it provides for the products i've put my heart and sole into for the last year.
Yes, I am saying that 100,000 viewers isn't enough. It's too small for me. It doesn't justify the effort when I can reach 8 figure 'viewerships' in the same time period doing something with less time investment.
Think about that, when you think 100,000 is a lot.
EDIT: Oh, and 5% of 100,000 is 5,000 ... which is less than half the number of drivers who raced on the STCC servers.........
For me, the STCC is a project with a significant time investment for a trivial return and little marketting opportunity. I would never have started it if I didn't think I could reach 100,000 viewers by season end. I didn't expect it when it happened, and I was dissapointed not to sustain it (the last two haven't done as well) - but there is just no way I would ever have put that much effort into something to get four figure viewing figures.
I think you need to re-evaluate your comprehension of the scale of the internet.
As for me, I could do a lot better for myself by returning to what i'm good at which is making games. I am sticking around to develop the CTRA X-System, but there's things I want to be getting on with - because i'm fed up of the stress of dealing with the LFS community for the piddling return and small opportunity it provides for the products i've put my heart and sole into for the last year.
Yes, I am saying that 100,000 viewers isn't enough. It's too small for me. It doesn't justify the effort when I can reach 8 figure 'viewerships' in the same time period doing something with less time investment.
Think about that, when you think 100,000 is a lot.
EDIT: Oh, and 5% of 100,000 is 5,000 ... which is less than half the number of drivers who raced on the STCC servers.........
I don't see it as an attack on anyone. It's just stupidity mixed with a total lack of understanding about who actually watches the videos, who links to them, who finds them entertaining, and the entire nature of viral marketing.
Nobody else's ignorance is my problem.
Nobody else's ignorance is my problem.
I should just clarify, actually.. when I first got the viewing figures it looked like the total downloads for each was around a million! Yes, this got us a bit excited. In fact it's not anywhere near there, and it took a bit of work and web-how to actually extract the true figures which are significantly less than a million downloads of each broadcast. Download managers etc are to blame for the inflated figures, but the numbers that Becky's quoted are the true figures (though they are peak, not average).
Whether or not people believe the numbers is wholly irrelevent at the end of the day. I'm not remotely interested in hiking viewing figures to sound good, and I HAVE NOT done that. No matter. As everybody knows by now, my primary interest (slightly different from Becky's) is in converting the views that the STCC has had into as many LFS licence sales as possible. I know there have been some, but I don't think there have been enough to call it a resounding success. Now that the STCC public servers are CTRA servers, of course, that link has gone as well.
Anyway, them's the facts. Obviously nobody appreciates the implication that you're a liar, even if it's packaged as "you're a nice bloke who lies", but I'm happy to draw a line under this nonsense and say no more on it.
Not wanting to propagate the "liar" bit, but where are the majority of these downloaders coming from if it's not from here?
Just curious.
Just curious.
The STCC drivers and marshals were basically asked to advertise the STCC broadcasts on any and all racing-related forums they knew of or could find, and to any/everyone they could reach who was remotely interested or connected with motorsports. Becky also has a lot of good friends who are active in the field of motorsports and isn't ashamed to beg for plugs wherever remotely appropriate, too. It is probably true to say that a lot of the downloads didn't walk in off the street, but were probably dragged in kicking and screaming. We were quite shameless. 
[edit] I should really add that a LOT of the unique IPs downloaded more than one broadcast, so I do think the broadcasts went down well.
[edit] I should really add that a LOT of the unique IPs downloaded more than one broadcast, so I do think the broadcasts went down well.
It only takes one good link, one slash dot, one digg, that's all it takes, and the numbers become trivial. Sam, on the personal bit - i've been having to explain/sidestep/pacify that twat in every post i've come across him making, that's why I blew my top - i'm pissed off with having to do that kind of thing all the time and so now the "returned" Becky is just not going to take that shit anymore.
Becky, IMO you're just too emotional. You do not need to explain every misunderstandings that others have. There're just too many people in this world, and it's useless to get everyone accept you. STCC is just one of your projects, and as u said it's just a small one. There are many people in LFS do appreciate your effort than pissing you off. That's life, and that's world. It is impossible to please everyone in this world.
mfg
Keithano
Another thread turned into an STCC bashing session. Sam i would have thought you'd have known better than to go this far off topic, can we keep this to PM's?
Back on topic, nice article. For sure Sim Racing helps a little, but Will maybe i dont think all of your success is down to LFS or Sim racing in general, maybe you just have a little bit of talent?
All it can really teach us is racing lines, and a little bit of race craft... but that's instinctive anyway.
Karting will never be substituted by Sim racing, and racing teams will NEVER scout for drivers in Sim racing, sure they don't even scout in karting really. The biggest cheque book gets the drive in 99% of cases.
I can however see sim racing turining into it's own form of motorsport in the future, where people will be able to make money and win nice prizes regularly in Sim races.
Back on topic, nice article. For sure Sim Racing helps a little, but Will maybe i dont think all of your success is down to LFS or Sim racing in general, maybe you just have a little bit of talent?
All it can really teach us is racing lines, and a little bit of race craft... but that's instinctive anyway.
Karting will never be substituted by Sim racing, and racing teams will NEVER scout for drivers in Sim racing, sure they don't even scout in karting really. The biggest cheque book gets the drive in 99% of cases.
I can however see sim racing turining into it's own form of motorsport in the future, where people will be able to make money and win nice prizes regularly in Sim races.
Sorry you feel this way I should emphasize I'm not trying to be personal, I'll try to clarify things and clear up:
1) When you were raising money for your ProKart.
2) Driving standards in STCC servers (several times).
3) STCC publicizing/large figures in articles (twice).
1) This was all really more a criticism of modern karting and the costs involved with running a four stroke endurance kart, which IMO shouldn't have been as high as it was forecast in your predictions. Somehow my cost cutting suggestions were taken the wrong way, please understand this was a criticism of club level karting, which along with club motorsport I feel is loosing site of reality with regards to costs.
2) Sorry Becky but you are failing to differentiate between the STCC servers/software/the drivers on your servers and yourself. You directly influence the servers and software you write, you have an indirect influence over those who race on your servers, be it through server bans system, rules and general attitude to the servers, but you cannot control everything, popular servers will attract unwanted drivers and given the nature of it some may join at times you don't or start behaving when you arrive. I can assure you that I have seen some of the worst driving standards in S2 on the STCC servers, but that doesn't mean to say that it is always bad, I may have just had a run of bad luck, whatever is causing the low standards it's nothing personal against you, in the end of the day you run by far the largest LFS 'touring car' type racing servers so inevitably if some touring car style driving is going to be around it will be on the STCC servers.
3) With this issue, I don't believe for a minute that you or SamH are lying, if I did I wouldn't be bothering to explain myself and would be happy with the fact I've obviously managed to upset you. I feel the figures may not be totally reliable, SamH already hinted things like download accelerators could make them over read. You keep mentioning that outside promotion gets viewers but what I'm still baffled about is who? When you go on about 6 figures and so one that just makes me loose interest because either you've lost touch with the reality of how small and specialist LFS is or I've completely missed the size of LFS. I think the STCC and iB barricade changed LFS for the better, and probably had an impact on several thousand people, and for that it was very worthwhile, I think the broadcasts however aren't watched by nearly as many people as it seems to be thought do.
Hopefully that now explains that the three (3) issues we've misunderstood on are nothing personal. I have nothing against you although I do understand some of the criticism may seem overwhelming, there's no point in not being honest and pointing out the other viewpoint is there? You and Sam have done so many great things for the LFS community, the STCC licenses, iB, the broadcasts, getting overlap universally rules recognized, getting rejoining rules the same recognition, LFS companion, the Mac viewer. There are hundreds of good points within each of those and a handful of negative things that could be done better
Well on that first argument: I wanted to win. Winning costs money. I didnt want to scrape the barrel anymore.
On the second one: I believe whether rightly or wrongly that the servers offered the best 'pick up' racing to be had in sim racing, more often than not.
On the last one: /shrug. LFS needs sales figures in triple digits a month just to break even with its server costs - and it also buys houses and cars. I think you think LFS is smaller than it is, and the broadcasts where never directly aimed at LFS'rs anyway, they are family entertainment. I think your perception of scale is wrong. To put it into context, the STCC has bandwidth capacity for over 10 terrabytes a month for it's movie downloads - but if it wasnt for internet cache servers that would not have been enough and the project would not have survived. I've invested several hundred pounds in web hosting to cope with the downloads, it isn't run from a £20 a year hosting account. It uses 3 servers (1 dedicated, 1 near dedicated, 1 distributed cluster hosting account) with a 4th I never found the funds to install.
There's a box, you need to think outside of it.
On the second one: I believe whether rightly or wrongly that the servers offered the best 'pick up' racing to be had in sim racing, more often than not.
On the last one: /shrug. LFS needs sales figures in triple digits a month just to break even with its server costs - and it also buys houses and cars. I think you think LFS is smaller than it is, and the broadcasts where never directly aimed at LFS'rs anyway, they are family entertainment. I think your perception of scale is wrong. To put it into context, the STCC has bandwidth capacity for over 10 terrabytes a month for it's movie downloads - but if it wasnt for internet cache servers that would not have been enough and the project would not have survived. I've invested several hundred pounds in web hosting to cope with the downloads, it isn't run from a £20 a year hosting account. It uses 3 servers (1 dedicated, 1 near dedicated, 1 distributed cluster hosting account) with a 4th I never found the funds to install.
There's a box, you need to think outside of it.
What exactly are you basing that on? A hunch? Becky and SamH both have evidence to back up their claims. You, on the other hand, just look like a fool.
sims = for poor people/ people with no real life driving skill , real life = something only lfs users could dream about , dam addictive lfs 
:P
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Sims vs Real Life
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