given the talk on this forum about the standard of driving which possibly stems from having something intangible to gain im not sure if thats really a good idea for something thats not policed 100% of the time like the actual stcc league was
dont get me wrong i like the idea of being able to win something but given the attitude on the inside/outside thread from drivers who care about winning races which mean diddly squat im really scared at the though what online play will turn into if the race does mean something
Unless the new CTRA management system Becky is working on greatly improves the marshalling coverage and ease of reporting, adding real money as prize is going to make things much much worse. I'm with Shotglass on this, and I guess we'll have to see how powerful the new system turns out to be.
If it gives Scavier money to continue this game as they have intended, I am all for product placement.
How about ads that are pertinent to the end user? Logitech, AMD, Western Digital, Motorola, netgear, etc. Might as well find advertisers that will buy their products.
What I'm proposing/requesting refers specifically to the billboards around tracks. I don't fancy mid-race or twixt-race video/graphic adverts and I'd certainly be against anything you'd have to click away. I'm referring only to the medium that exists already (billboards), and making actual use of it.
As for porn content.. if a server op were to deliver that kind of content, I'd hope Scawen would switch off that IP at the master server end. They sure wouldn't have me in their server very long, regardless. I really can't see it being an issue.. I haven't seen anything offensive on car skins (apart from maybe once or twice) and I'm assuming that Victor isn't throwing hours per week at policing skins. My presupposition is that server operators are always going to operate to a standard of practice where this kind of issue would never arise.
For us, the only sponsors we'd be able to attract in any circumstance is going to be something pertinent to motorsports and/or sim racing. Logitech being the obvious and most available example, but similarly any company that already sponsors motorsports could be attracted. Red Bull, for example, touches almost every aspect of motor racing. Sim racing is a natural progression for them, so they'd be a viable possibility. Red Bull ads would not look out of place around an LFS track. Anything related to computing, too.. what have they got to do with motorsports? Ask Intel or AMD
Regarding in-league and in-server behaviour, it's entirely up to league and server operators who offer prizes to assert appropriate driving standards. Truthfully, I only have experience of STCC league racing. Certainly in the STCC, you wouldn't be able to get very far without being squeaky-clean, and you sure as hell couldn't win the season driving any other way. I've always assumed that was the case for all leagues. All of this is aside from the main point, which is that if you offer prizes without demanding standards, you'll get whatever that brings. Relevent advertising and sponsorship isn't the determining factor there.
Sorry for multi-posting.. on a laptop following the f1 gp!
Absolutely. I'm sure Scawen would ensure that it would be optional. If I had a choice, I'd ask for default to be on (auto download), because it lends leverage when server ops are talking to sponsors, but I'm confident that nobody who objected would be forced. I would definitely make that decision to accept/refuse detectable by server ops, though. I think that's important, for collecting stats etc.
Do you think it would be possible to even pull meaningful sponsorship this way? If there are only something like 50,000 S2 licences around, I'm sure the bigger (global) companies wouldn't even consider it. 50,000 is local newspaper stuff. And you'll have to convince these people that the target group (LFS players) somehow fits within the target profile that the advertising company's aiming to reach out to. That could be pretty hard for Redbull etc, but I admit probably pretty easy if the advertised product is a G25 for instance.
Either way, I still don't like it. Sure, ads are a part of real-life racing, and professional sports in general. I don't think it would somehow ruin the atmosphere of the game. I just don't want to be preached to as I'm going round a corner in my XFG.
Is nowhere sacred? (what would the Blackwood Guru say???)
edit- also, you'd better not tell potential sponsers that you can turn the ads off. They wouldn't like that. :rolleyes:
Depends, I don't think there's too much to gain from the racers themselves, but when the races are broadcast the whole thing might get more viable. Ingame I reckon the novelty would wear off very fast and they'd soon be ignored just like the current ads. While racing you should concentrate on the track anyway
On behalf of liveforspeed.se I fully support the idea. We've been organizing events for almost a year and we've started to look for potential sponsors (more specifically we're looking for someone to fund the prizes we'd like to reward the winners with).
One potential sponsor we've been in contact with has specifically requested in-game advertisement in return for such sponsorship. Beside skins and the client-side replacing of textures (for screenshots, movies, etc) we can not offer much at this point.
I despise TV programs and movies that try to get me to buy stuff. I use an ad-blocker and a spam filter. I avoid websites that pop up commercial garbage. I try to keep my doormat free from paper ads. And it's no different when I'm playing LFS.
Product placement would ruin my fun in racing. If a server admin would throw in billboard ads for real products, I'd disconnect immediately. And if the devs would need to insert ads to cover their costs, I'll happily pay some extra money for an ad-free licence.
In real-life racing money talks. Do you want it to be that way in LFS, too?
Forget it. Sponsors won't pay for ads that can be turned off with a simple click. Next, admins of sponsored servers will be asking Scawen for a server-side option to ignore ad-blocking.
If you want to offer actual prizes, then require a fee from drivers who want to enter the competition.
No, they don't have much random crap. It's just sex phone lines. Most things worth watching on ITV4 are on at the middle of the night, I'm not an insomaniac so I record it and watch it the day after, fast forwarding the ads. Bliss.
Simple - charge the servers to have the stuff on LFSW.
It's legal (well, the stuff adverised on ITV4 is) , and there is the what consititutes porn business. A real life FIA GT car (a Pagani if I recall correctly) which was sponsored by Playboy and a major porn distributor wasn't allowed to start for a rollcage issue, but I feel sure that the sponsorship played in to the decision. Trust me, I wouldn't let porn ads be run in the SGPS.
It could be an issue - ads to an almost entirely male 18-30 audience ... who are (ok then, I don't have the stats on my hand) the most likely people to purchase *ahem* adult material and telephone services.
Also, I can see another issue. Let's say the server is sponsored by Bonehead Servers. Would an admin start kicking someone who was sponsored by IdiotServers*? In NASCAR there was some business about not having new mobile phone sponsors (the Cup series being sponsored by Sprint NEXTEL), some drivers who were running grandfathered in ones and other telecommunications companies having greyscale suit logos and also not calling it the NEXTEL cup - Unless my memory is playing tricks with me Corey Costello, the guy who does the stock car zone, a very good stock car racing podcast, said that he did an infomercial with 1 or 2 drivers from a team sponsored by xingular, and them saying that he had to refer to it as the NASCAR Cup series or he would be fired (he said this on his podcast).
* Both fictional server hosting companies that are nothing to do with any real ones. Replace with Intel and AMD if you want. Or ATI and Nvidia. Or Logitech and Thrustmaster.
Amid the plethora of negativity, I'm gathering that you don't watch motorsports either IRL or on TV. That's your choice, but it's far and away from the norm for motorsports enthusiasts who are either not bothered by the advertising, or often even actively align themselves with, and promote brands themselves, because of their association with their favourite team/driver.
There'd be absolutely no need to ask Scawen for an ad-blocker. Don't join the commercially financed server. This has already been covered. Read the thread.
That's an alternative, but not the one I'm proposing.
@duketoaster, that's all just scaremongery. Too silly to respond to.
I think this is a good idea. We already have trackside billboards which nobody seems to mind, why not have a little variety? It would give the servers a bit of a different look and feel.
Really, it's just skins for the billboards, make it a client side option to turn it off and stick with the default billboard skins.
I think you would see more ads for teams, servers and upcoming events than you would see commercial ads anyway.
Maybe not really. My girlfriend works in qualitative market research, her clients include people behind some of the biggest global brands in the world today, and I tellsya... the stories she brings home about some of these marketting people in her day to day dealings... makes your skin crawl. Petty, jealous, ruthless, infantile, obsessive, evil. There's really no notion of mutual benefits for these people, they only want what they want and they know they can use money to get it. I'm not saying there aren't good sponsors out there, but I would be thinking very seriously about all this before simply saying 'hey, great idea'.
If you're aiming for the sponsorship possibility because you're really just looking to expand beyond your current means (second server), then I think that's quite irresponsible. If great prizes are a goal, then the alternative is entry fees for leagues, etc. I'm not sure if I'm really seeing the whole point to all this.
I'm sure Scavier are already quite finely tuned to the pitfalls and promises that such a step would possibly bring to their sim. It's their call, as always.
I did read the thread. In post #54 you said, in response to AndroidXP:
If I read you correctly, you say downloading ads should be a user-selectable option. If so, it would be fine with me. Ad-haters like me can set it to "off", racing fans who want things to look like real life set it to "on". Problem solved.
But I'm skeptical that it would be like that, because an easy way to block ads will diminish their value (less eyeballs). Sponsors will pay less, so admins of sponsored servers will be tempted/pressured by sponsors to refuse connections from "ad-blocked" visitors. I think you are leaning that way, because you want the blocking to be detectable for the server, and in post #61 you state:
It's not a "plethora of negativity", Sam. I'm strongly against commercialism, yes, but for good reasons. I think it's detrimental to society. But let's keep that discussion for some other thread.
LFS has been a "non-commercialised" sim until now, and for me that was an important reason to buy it and to join the community. I'd hate to see that go.
Oh, you mean the caveats I raised in my post that he was replying to? Thanks.
As it happens, I work in market research too, although the company I work for is purely on the research side, and we cover both qual and quantitative work. I second EK's comments about the people we meet as our clients - utterly single-minded about pushing their product and winning market share. You can dismiss such concerns if you like, but the fact remains that the LFS market is advertising nirvana for those peddling less than family friendly products. If there's going to be auto in-game advertising, especially if rotated on occasion to introduce new ads, then there's going to have to be some kind of content checking.
Not scaremongering or "silly", just thinking of the necessary precautions required to implement an otherwise good idea.
Agreed. Ad blocking is different from selecting an option. We'd discussed ad-blocking by IP-blocking earlier in the thread, and that's what I assumed you were referring to. Misunderstanding.
I wouldn't personally opt for that route and I'm quite sure there would be plenty of servers that wouldn't either. We'd never be short of places to race, but I think that it's reasonable information for server operators to have. It's not pivotal, but it is fair.
I'm personally not at all opposed to commercialism. I am opposed to in-your-face, aggressive advertising. I'm opposed to misleading advertising. I'm opposed to lots of things in commerce that are common practice, that other people accept or regard as normal. I've also worked in the service industry and in the marketing industry for many a year, and I've (I think) a well-developed opinion on all of this stuff. What I am proposing is 100% contextually appropriate. It's nothing that isn't there already. The only difference is that what I'm proposing will offer server operators who currently incur expense monthly to recoup their costs, and to offer more than they do already. The potential net gain for the LFS community is there, if the community will recognise it.
LFS IS a commercial product. It's a business. The multiplayer environment within which you play IS a paid-for environment. It isn't just born in the ether. Every server, capable of handling 32 players and an additional 15 spectators is paid for by SOMEone.
My proposal enables that multiplayer community to do more, to achieve more, and to give more to you. That's what this is about, and nothing else.
In the way the concern was raised, it was reasonable. It's the protracted assertions taken from what you said that got silly. We are not inundated by pornographic content on skins, nor are we inundated by horny server names. Pornographic content, in any form, is forbidden in the LFS environment and server operators are not exempt from those T&C. Basically it's already covered.
What I'm saying is that the response "it's legal" to me saying I'd hope Scawen would turn off IPs hosting porn billboards is silly scaremongery. Whether or not it's legal has absolutely nothing to do with anything. In this environment, it's NOT permitted and therefore Scawen would be perfectly within his rights to turn off those IPs.
He's not saying that. He's saying that at the moment, it's innocent. It's art. Disconnected from the real world of 'insert famous driver' holding up a can of oil, giving his best cheezy grin and proclaiming 'this is the stuff I use. You should too'. He wants to get away from that.
Nope, I don't think he is. I think he's presenting an argument he hasn't thought through. Sorry, but there are serious problems with that logic. Intel is a real product, Credit Suisse is real, BMW is real and Michelin is real.
Half-baked argument, though I'm guessing it's based on a genuine gut reaction, but I'm afraid it's not pursuant to logic.
Of course, me too. But replacing some fake brand writing with some real brand writing is hardly going to make a difference, is it? And if it helps supporting leagues and servers, why not?
Not on the surface. On the surface, I imagine you'll probably hardly notice a blip. Or an Intel. But, maybe a blimp!?
What's wrong with a sponsor graphic type thing within the Multiplayer screen as skins etc are loading up? That worked for the Battefield series before things got very strange and ads started popping up in the year 2142 suggesting you buy an Intel Core II Duo. illepall
There's also the message popup. Wouldn't it be too hard to include your sponsors message as well? That leaves the game itself left alone, while servers that choose to pursue sponsorship can get their message across. I don't see why you guys aren't already doing that? Unless the sponsors are already clamouring for rights to the game itself. Maybe their modeler guy is busy working on a nice blimp.
Sorry guys, but I'm also having a gut reaction. A big, swirly, churny, spasmy one. It's the principle of the thing. The initial stage to these kinds of steps seem so simple and beneficial. Promises are given- all parties will benefit etc, we'll give back to the community etc etc.. But the reality often turns out something very different.
Makes me wonder how many good things have actually turned to poo because someone had to say 'hey, you know what this thing needs? Some decent sponsorship!!'
Electrik Kar, believe me I understand the resistance against advertising. I'm very intolerant of misplaced advertising, or obstructive advertising, wasting trees and wasting my time.
I remain confident that the thing I am suggesting here in the improvement suggestions section is not a window of opportunity for myself to make any money, nor is it something that I think either could or would be exploited by anyone else for their own individual gain.
I honestly believe that the end result of implementing this idea would be fast servers with low pings, all the bandwidth that would ever be needed being available at peak times of the day, on less contested server racks, in more up-market and stable datacentres, with more packets per second than is normally happening now. The only other thing you would perhaps notice is, as you drive around the track and if you should happen to glance up at one of the billboards instead of concentrating on your driving, see a Logitech billboard instead of a HiBITE billboard. All of that should be enough to please a sponsor and more than enough to please the LFS racers. Everyone would benefit, and you would lose nothing.
wait are you talking about advertising during league races to get some prizes for the league racers or advertising on the public ctra servers for prizes to the public racers ?
illepall