Yep, in the turn AFTER that.
Annyway, as someone allredy stated. It depends on the corner, the lenght of the straight after the corner, the next turn, the banking of the corner and so on.
Yep, in the turn AFTER that.
Annyway, as someone allredy stated. It depends on the corner, the lenght of the straight after the corner, the next turn, the banking of the corner and so on.
Yeah, that's why it doesn't really make sense to talk about stuff like that in general terms. Each situation is different, and even the stewards don't always agree whether or not someone deserves a penalty.
i bet u dont do very well
the reason why fisi didnt squeeze button, is because to squeeze button would have meant fisi going off the racing line, and visa versa. fisi tried to squeeze button on the exit of the 1st left hander, but becuase they were side by side button could hold it.
I'm quite certain that's not the case. There may be grip there but he turned in too early to be able to take the line around the outside fast enough to keep up with you.
About USGP: Fisi could have sqeezed Button at least once and he did in fact lose a position by not squeezing but managed to get it back through the slipstream on the long straight.
Trulli on the other hand did squeeze Webber and kept his position by doing that.
So yes, sqeezing is an effective strategy and no, not all racing drivers share the opinions of some LFS karters.
Debunked: both incidents in same corner.
And for comparision the racing line for that corner (that Fisi didn't use because Button was alongside him).
Well, as stated, its complicated. I'm not 100% sure about the rule of a car on the outside but from I can tell, if the driver ahead has more than 50% (I also heard the driver on the outside has to have 100% overlap [side by side basically]) then the driver leading has the right to squeeze the other driver out.
Personally, I don't really do it but it is a fair maneuver to squeeze another driver on the outside if he is behind you and doesn't have the necessary 50% overlap (I agree more with 50% as its fairer). Same way as the driver who tries to do an inside pass has to have 50% or the leading driver has the right to take the racing line.
It's a very touchy subject really but those are the rules I play by but I don't necessarily do them all the time, just some of the time.
Personally, I don't really do it but it is a fair maneuver to squeeze another driver on the outside if he is behind you and doesn't have the necessary 50% overlap (I agree more with 50% as its fairer). Same way as the driver who tries to do an inside pass has to have 50% or the leading driver has the right to take the racing line.
It's a very touchy subject really but those are the rules I play by but I don't necessarily do them all the time, just some of the time.
He didn't because he was either a clean driver, or not a very good one. If he was as aggressive as you, he'd have stayed on the outside and collided with you when you went wide. And he'd have been the one in the right.
I dunno, maybe the 2 season wins out of 3 may be an indication though.
Damn girlfriend wants to move in together, so money is being deverted, but I don't suppose a kid like yourself will understand. Maybe one day when that special guy asks you a question you will though
Alrighty, but if I see you on the track and I hold the outside line, if you spin across my nose it's on you.
im starting to enjoy this
keep going mackie this is becoming interesting again
keep going mackie this is becoming interesting again
Simple physics, if he sees you doing this, and lines up his front fender along your rear axle, You will be introduced to mr outside barrier.
I've been enjoying the differences in opinions here (and agree to those who state the passing car does NOT have the right to the exit when outside car has overlap, ie, you can see him out the side view.
I keep seeing what I believe ayrton senna 87 state "when I am passing you on the outside..." I take that as actually making the pass attempt on the outside rather than being passed and defending on the outside. That is a different discussion, if this is what he means. That is what I interpret him to be arguing, passing on the outside, not defending on the outside. Completely different discussion.
Alan Dove's video that's been posted twice now... That video example has nothing to do with this discussion. You passed on a braking manuver and took the apex. To me, the other car didn't have what it takes to stick. He didn't have the speed, turn-in, correct line, skill, whatever to defend and stay on your outside. It was a pass that was completed before exit and there was no attempt at fighting by the defending car. This discussion is about the pass where the defending car is capable of staying on the outside. The same goes for the many other videos being posted of "proper passing and squeezing". None of those videos showed the defending car sticking with the passing car to have significant overlap, thus running side by side in the corner. They were all passes completed by the corner exit. In order for the "corner exit rights" rule to come into effect, the passing car must be unable to complete the pass by corner exit, thus the defending car being on his outside rather than being behind on exit.
The two instances that are included in this discussion is the side by side race in the corner and the squeeze on the exit. If the cars are side by side, meaning there is significant overlap which in LFS is when the other car is visible in the left/right view, then the passing car must leave room on exit. The defending car is there and can be seen, thus for clean, fair, and avoiding contact, room must be left on exit.
The squeeze on exit as folks have discussed here is when the defending car does NOT keep up with significant overlap (he leaves the side view of the passing car, thus he can no longer be seen). This is where the passing car can squeeze the defending car on exit as the defense no longer has overlap and can no longer be seen by the passing car. It is up to the defender to ease off and let the passing car have the exit because of this loss of overlap.
This is the situation where the defending car has lost his overlap, thus lost his "right" to not be squeezed. If this happens and the defending car "lines up his front fender along your rear axle..." and spins the passer, then he is at fault for wrecking. If he did not lose his overlap, thus keeping his right not to be punted at exit, then he in no way could "line up his front fender with your rear axle". He would be keeping up to the door of the passer for significant overlap, thus would be in position for the passer to see him and the passer to leave room. If contact is made here (with the defender's overlap), then it is the passing car's fault.
I keep seeing what I believe ayrton senna 87 state "when I am passing you on the outside..." I take that as actually making the pass attempt on the outside rather than being passed and defending on the outside. That is a different discussion, if this is what he means. That is what I interpret him to be arguing, passing on the outside, not defending on the outside. Completely different discussion.
Alan Dove's video that's been posted twice now... That video example has nothing to do with this discussion. You passed on a braking manuver and took the apex. To me, the other car didn't have what it takes to stick. He didn't have the speed, turn-in, correct line, skill, whatever to defend and stay on your outside. It was a pass that was completed before exit and there was no attempt at fighting by the defending car. This discussion is about the pass where the defending car is capable of staying on the outside. The same goes for the many other videos being posted of "proper passing and squeezing". None of those videos showed the defending car sticking with the passing car to have significant overlap, thus running side by side in the corner. They were all passes completed by the corner exit. In order for the "corner exit rights" rule to come into effect, the passing car must be unable to complete the pass by corner exit, thus the defending car being on his outside rather than being behind on exit.
The two instances that are included in this discussion is the side by side race in the corner and the squeeze on the exit. If the cars are side by side, meaning there is significant overlap which in LFS is when the other car is visible in the left/right view, then the passing car must leave room on exit. The defending car is there and can be seen, thus for clean, fair, and avoiding contact, room must be left on exit.
The squeeze on exit as folks have discussed here is when the defending car does NOT keep up with significant overlap (he leaves the side view of the passing car, thus he can no longer be seen). This is where the passing car can squeeze the defending car on exit as the defense no longer has overlap and can no longer be seen by the passing car. It is up to the defender to ease off and let the passing car have the exit because of this loss of overlap.
This is the situation where the defending car has lost his overlap, thus lost his "right" to not be squeezed. If this happens and the defending car "lines up his front fender along your rear axle..." and spins the passer, then he is at fault for wrecking. If he did not lose his overlap, thus keeping his right not to be punted at exit, then he in no way could "line up his front fender with your rear axle". He would be keeping up to the door of the passer for significant overlap, thus would be in position for the passer to see him and the passer to leave room. If contact is made here (with the defender's overlap), then it is the passing car's fault.
I'm not (and I don't think Stu is) implying that I would intentionally wreck him, but if I hold my line, without deviating from it, and he chooses a line that crosses that line without clearing me, that's his problem.
I realize that it can be difficult to judge this when blind spots are involved (i.e. when you can't see the other car out the side window), but judging relative speed differences and momentum is a big part of racing and, generally, if you're not SURE you're clear, don't move up.
Indeed, DWB, that is the way I would race as well. If I'm not sure I'm clear of the defending car, even if he's no longer in view to the side, then I'll leave room. But, per this discussion, I'd also say that the passing car would not be at fault if contact is made when the defender has left the significant overlap (side view of the passing car). In my opinion, it is up to the defending car to ease out and allow the passer the corner exit when overlap is lost on the outside.
It's a difference in what would you do compared to what you should expect him to do. If I'm passing, I leave room if I'm not sure. That's what I would do. But if being passed and I loose the overlap, I expect him to take the exit and I back out. Reason being is, if he can't see me, I don't expect him to leave room as I would if not sure. I just expect him to squeeze. If I'm beside him in defending, then I do indeed expect him to leave me the exit if I have overlap (can see me in his side view).
This is exactly why I liked and used pitspotter. I found it very accurate to where if I moved over the moment it said clear, the other car was indeed clear, but only by very little distance at that moment. This is not real racing. We are indeed playing a game. Thus, there is nothing to be gained by "squeezing" the other guy out, so for it to be fun, you leave room. Simple as that. Why take the chance of being spun out by squeezing the defending player off just for a simple internet computer game. And, there's nothing to be gained by squeezing the defender off. The fun is lost when you loose your opponent and finish all by yourself.
yea but what do u race?
he has nothing to prove to you Ayrton.
hes telling me he knows about real life racing, and yet he says that squeezing someone is wrong. so he obviously doesnt race at a competative level. My point is that EVERYONE who races in real life at a decent level is saying that it is right, and all of u simmers with a serious lack of race craft think that its not right.
thats rich comming from you of all people
lol hahaha u wouldnt know what race craft is if it smacked u in the face. i can get from the back to the front in a matter of laps, i can have great races with people who know what they are doing, the other day me and nikimere and myboss had a great battle. when it comes to racing 99% of people they are fools and i cant be bothered
youd be the first i ever met who actually has something to base his infinite arrogance on
its not arrogance, its fact, most of u guys do not know what you are doing, every1 who knows me knows im not arrogant, and in real life i dont go around crashing into people, because of the fact that they arent losers with 0 talent.
And this is what the Barricade is for.
I say let them keep doing what they like, causing as many collisions as they like, and make sure you get the replay afterward.
People who do this (and I've seen a few) will also screw themselves out of the race when the aero damage model is done.
Until then, my cheeky suggestion is to slow down yourself and gently nudge their back corner. They won't be expecting the change in forces and are likely to just spin off. But I wouldn't submit your replay if you do that
I say let them keep doing what they like, causing as many collisions as they like, and make sure you get the replay afterward.
People who do this (and I've seen a few) will also screw themselves out of the race when the aero damage model is done.
Until then, my cheeky suggestion is to slow down yourself and gently nudge their back corner. They won't be expecting the change in forces and are likely to just spin off. But I wouldn't submit your replay if you do that
What a silly thing to say.
So it's ok to crash into people who aren't as talented as yourself?
This whole discussion seems to be turning a little silly.
Basically the final word is respect. In pickup servers, Senna is correct, odds are the majority out there have little race craft. I think most of us could agree on the average level of pickup servers being somewhat less than 50% skilled simmers.
That said, you being a better racer does Not give you the right to disrespect their rights to a clean race. Every time a more skilled driver edges, squeezes, pushes, or nudges a backmarker/slower car off the track they loose the right to complain about a backmarker driving wrecklessly. What does a newcomer understand about overlap and karting? By being more aggressive with less skilled racers you are only perpetuating the cycle of crappy pickup servers.
Being so much better than everyone else, as you so loudly say you are, you should strive for only clean passes. People who drive fast and cleanly gain respect. Driving with respect increases the fun and competitiveness of racing.
Basically the final word is respect. In pickup servers, Senna is correct, odds are the majority out there have little race craft. I think most of us could agree on the average level of pickup servers being somewhat less than 50% skilled simmers.
That said, you being a better racer does Not give you the right to disrespect their rights to a clean race. Every time a more skilled driver edges, squeezes, pushes, or nudges a backmarker/slower car off the track they loose the right to complain about a backmarker driving wrecklessly. What does a newcomer understand about overlap and karting? By being more aggressive with less skilled racers you are only perpetuating the cycle of crappy pickup servers.
Being so much better than everyone else, as you so loudly say you are, you should strive for only clean passes. People who drive fast and cleanly gain respect. Driving with respect increases the fun and competitiveness of racing.
This thread is closed
Question about inside outside rules.
(320 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG