Quote from Rayo :

On a side note, I think it would be more real to lose the car that suddenly if you are riding the outside curbs on entry of fast turns, something that I think its sort of missing also.

Everything happens for a reason. In LFS I can see well what happened if I made a mistake. And understand what caused it. In this aspect LFS is years ahead any other rasing sims.

I hope you are not talking about canned effects.

I have a kart and when I go out the track to the grass, the tyres grip bad 2 or 3 seconds, not 2 o 3 curbs.....illepall Even with grass in the tyre, the grip is perfect

Quote from TRM.13 :

I have a kart and when I go out the track to the grass, the tyres grip bad 2 or 3 seconds, not 2 o 3 curbs.....illepall Even with grass in the tyre, the grip is perfect

Does your kart have downforce? And are its tyres as soft compound slicks as the race cars in LFS? A formula 1 tyre is like chewing gum when it is warm.

Quote from axus :

Does your kart have downforce? And are its tyres as soft compound slicks as the race cars in LFS? A formula 1 tyre is like chewing gum when it is warm.

Yes, kart tyres too! Thats the reason why the grip is perfect 3 seconds later than the grass-walk! The tyres are "grassy" but the they "absorve" the grass and the grip is ok

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3345

I actually think the Dirt effect is pretty spot on. If not servere enough. Dirt on tyres is a major factor in car racing, listen to any driver interview or read articles on racing. Racing in LFS actually makes me appreaciate even more what 'real' Racers are doing on the track and just how many variables there are in Racing. LFS surely hasn't covered them all.

I do have a persoanl point to this in that those who bemoan dirt on tyres are possible more upset because their 'hotlaps' can't be as hot as they would like them to be. I consider the dirt issue forces me to actually drive the racing car like iut should be driven, with care and consideration for everything. Racing cars might be travelling fast, but unless you look after them they don't stay travelling fast for long.

The Simulation side of LFS is that you need to care for your car and your tyres. A factor which is sacrificed in many driving games in leu of playability.

You can't expect a game like LFS to react in the same way as NFS or some console derived rubbish. LFS demands that you drive correctly. And I think poeple get upset by that very fact.

I agree

But.... With less "no-grip" time will be much realistic IMO

Quote from Funnybear :

I actually think the Dirt effect is pretty spot on. If not servere enough. Dirt on tyres is a major factor in car racing, listen to any driver interview or read articles on racing. Racing in LFS actually makes me appreaciate even more what 'real' Racers are doing on the track and just how many variables there are in Racing. LFS surely hasn't covered them all.

I do have a persoanl point to this in that those who bemoan dirt on tyres are possible more upset because their 'hotlaps' can't be as hot as they would like them to be. I consider the dirt issue forces me to actually drive the racing car like iut should be driven, with care and consideration for everything. Racing cars might be travelling fast, but unless you look after them they don't stay travelling fast for long.

The Simulation side of LFS is that you need to care for your car and your tyres. A factor which is sacrificed in many driving games in leu of playability.

You can't expect a game like LFS to react in the same way as NFS or some console derived rubbish. LFS demands that you drive correctly. And I think poeple get upset by that very fact.

You presume a lot of things about the way people think. And you're wrong a lot.

Here's my opinion: Racing cars (real ones) frequently run wide, and they do not have to crawl through the next corner, with tiny application of the throttle kicking them into a drift. Bikes run wide too, and they can still crank it right over into the next corner. OF COURSE grip will be reduced, but not by as much as in LFS. They even cut some dusty, gravelly corners in the middle of twisty sections intentionally if they can do it without penalty, because it's faster! I don't think it would ever be faster to cut a corner in a twisty section in LFS.
But what do I know. Maybe I'm just upset because hotlaps aren't as hot as they could be

I think Sinbad is very right , here's a video which 'proofs' that. Look at car#42 he got dirt on all wheels , and can keep up with the cars infront at the next corner.

mms://vipeurosport.yacast.net/eurosport/2005/08/28/wtcc2_21443_4_224_0_320x240.wmv
btw. video shows Zanardi's first win after his crash.

1) time dirt lasts on tyres is obviously way too much. should clear faster. also exponentially (inverted) and that was added per request. but overall it should be a faster process. simple rolling should clean a bit more also.

2) effect dirt has on griploss is also a bit too much. no need to increase grip too much coz the shortned life the dirt will have in tyre after proper tweak (1), will also give the impression u have more grip. important is the exponential drop of the dirt amount.

3) both 1 and 2 were reported several times. its easier to write than to have devs actually implementing the changes. several reasons can assist for this slow process. there is no fault or blame involved.

4) i always find kinda funny experience to be "denied or ignored" on something behind closed doors and when something goes out in public the exact same complains popup from general public. in a way its a complement coz thats one component of testing something, is to represent the general reaction to something. On the other hand its very frustrating to have something obviously flawed pass thru while being listed as tester (filter). this is not my game and i aint even the only tester, much less nowadays. also please note many things are added with the clear conscience they still need a lot work and finetuning. thats the idea behind wip dev and constant patches.

nothing is perfect

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

1) time dirt lasts on tyres is obviously way too much. should clear faster. also exponentially (inverted) and that was added per request. but overall it should be a faster process. simple rolling should clean a bit more also.

Never having diven a racecar, much less thru dirt, I don't really have a clue.....
But wouldn't the TYPE of dirt determine how long it stays on the tires?
and the compound of the rubber as well? and the track temperature too?

For example, if you were to drive a car with those wrinkled slicks thru some
topsoil, you're going to have dirty ass tires. now drive a car with steel belted radials (WHITE WALLS RULE!!!) over a clay tennis court, it's not
going to affect it much

Also, the dirt thing seems to be different for different cars.
Like if I go thru some dirt in the RAC I use... it's no big deal - within reason.
now if I go thru the same amount of dirt using the FZ, well....it loses grip alot more it seems.
yeah I know the FZ eats tires faster and all, but still.

Off topic:
I notice that people from Wales has their own flag now instead of the Union Jack......
I want a Texas Flag Dammit!

I still reckon that this is actually a failry accurate simulation. If you use F1 as a comparison in real world racing terms dirt effects the cars considerable. They will actually set up the cars to accomodate dirt if the track shows itself to be faster going through corners by using track extremes. If you watch races carefully you will see corrisponding drops in times after racing incidents but those racing drivers are proffessionals and they know how to race on dirty tyres. But you also have to remember that no race track is ever truly clean. In races that you continually see drivers take to dirt they don't just have dirt on their tyres, they put dirt EVERYWHERE!! You've all seen it in LFS, the guy in front has fishtailed three times across the track, each time going to grass. He should be spreading more dirt than a muck spreader on to the track. You then driving through that collects dirt.

So my point being . . . ah yes, my point. The real life thing. Without knowing the physics simulation at the heart of LFS I can only assume (Seeing how I don';t know everything) that they can't take everything into account (Carbon Fibre puncture anyone?). I still think that people get so upset about the dirt issue is still beacause they can't go as fast and loose races. It's what happens in real llife. The problem being that because most servers in LFS run short races you are not given the opportunity to gain back your time lost . . So in effect LFS has the dirt pretty much there. In my humble opinion.

Which isn't worth much. Seeing how I don't know nuffin.

P.S. Wales still does have the Union Jack as it is still part of the Union. Much as they are trying not to be.

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

1) time dirt lasts on tyres is obviously way too much. should clear faster. also exponentially (inverted) and that was added per request. but overall it should be a faster process. simple rolling should clean a bit more also.

2) effect dirt has on griploss is also a bit too much. no need to increase grip too much coz the shortned life the dirt will have in tyre after proper tweak (1), will also give the impression u have more grip. important is the exponential drop of the dirt amount.

nothing is perfect

I agree with 1 & 2, reducing either one would solve the problem or reducing both a smaller amount would also solve the problem. Having had my car on the track with slicks last weekend, and unfortunately going off into loose dirt/gravel/grass, I can say that the loss of grip afterwards is much less drastic in real life. I drove off-line for 2-3 corners and everything was back to normal.

For those saying that people are just upset because it hurts their hotlaps, I'd say that I'd much rather be able to actually concentrate on the line and vehicle dynamics than the finicky traction problems that affect LFS.

I've said it before and will hopefully not say it many more times after the physics patch, but if real cars drove like the ones in LFS nobody would ever survive a race.

I like it as it is, although it if was made more accurate (i.e. inner middle outer section) then I wouldn't complain.

I find that with dirty tyres my corner speeds are only about 10mph slower, but as we're all competative we hate seeing any time being lost. In fact, if you have the sense to remember your tyres are dirty, you don't lose THAT much time...

Quote from tristancliffe :

I like it as it is, although it if was made more accurate (i.e. inner middle outer section) then I wouldn't complain.

I find that with dirty tyres my corner speeds are only about 10mph slower, but as we're all competative we hate seeing any time being lost. In fact, if you have the sense to remember your tyres are dirty, you don't lose THAT much time...

Of course you can minimise the impact, just like you can "work around" the dirty air eccentricty by not getting close in a corner, and then hyper-drafting them on a straight. I'm not sure you're using this as a reason to leave it as is, but if you are it's not a good one.

Basically I don't think it represents the real effect accurately. It's almost like the devs were worried people wouldn't notice it, and cranked up something by 25% or so to make sure they did, same goes for slipstream and dirty air.

^IMO

Quote from tristancliffe :

I like it as it is, although it if was made more accurate (i.e. inner middle outer section) then I wouldn't complain.

I find that with dirty tyres my corner speeds are only about 10mph slower, but as we're all competative we hate seeing any time being lost. In fact, if you have the sense to remember your tyres are dirty, you don't lose THAT much time...

If you like to stay LFS as it is, you are wrong here

Quote from Lible :

No, they would get dirty if you go to grass, but when driving ON TRACK, they would not.

So what you're saying is that when a rally cross driver drives through dirt and mud his tyres will come out totaly spotless?

Maybe I am wrong, but be that at it may (I'm quite accustomed to being wrong), I still the effect of dirt on tyres is within my limits of tolerence. Sure, it might be more realistic a touch less, but only a smidgen.

As for the slipstream, I think you gain too much speed from it, but it's length is about right. As for dirty air, I think it should promote more understeer than the current oversteer.

But to be honest each scenario is actually pretty damn close. It's just very fine tuning really, and not totally off.

imo of course.

Quote from tpa :

My teammate GPunkt happens to be the german RallyX Champion of 2003......

he is the reigning Champion of 2005 actually too .

but ontopic:

i agree that the effect of dirt on the tyres seems not to be realistic. if this is about the intensity of the effect or about the length of it, i don't know.

Mahlzeit.....

I think the system is not bad.....but it needs tweaking

There are quite some factors that have an influence on this whole matter.....

- tyre compound
- tyre temperature
- tyre surface (maybe)
- type of dirt

I really think the effect is a bit exagerated at the moment.....but I am sure it will be enhanced

CU, Sebastian

Quote from tristancliffe :

I like it as it is, although it if was made more accurate (i.e. inner middle outer section) then I wouldn't complain.

I find that with dirty tyres my corner speeds are only about 10mph slower, but as we're all competative we hate seeing any time being lost. In fact, if you have the sense to remember your tyres are dirty, you don't lose THAT much time...

Theres another problem adding to this and schofei has said it, im practicing Westhill int (FOX) and they are all pretty fast corners and sometimes you run wide, the problem is if you get say your left hand tyres dirty, turning right you rightly understeer but turning left you get a lot of oversteer, so much that it can be virtually imposible to turn left, the way to ensure you turn left is to get the right tyres dirty too, then instead of crawling 60% speed going right i can go 90% right, strange behaviour dont you think?

Troy

Quote from Lible :

No, they would get dirty if you go to grass, but when driving ON TRACK, they would not.

Have you ever driven a RallyX race, or at least seen one on the television? IT'S FULL OF DIRT! TIRES GET DIRTY IN DIRT!

wow...

Oh, and I'm sorry that my post is a lil late... but I just now read that silly comment.

Quote from M.Mos :

I think Sinbad is very right , here's a video which 'proofs' that. Look at car#42 he got dirt on all wheels , and can keep up with the cars infront at the next corner.

mms://vipeurosport.yacast.net/eurosport/2005/08/28/wtcc2_21443_4_224_0_320x240.wmv
btw. video shows Zanardi's first win after his crash.

damn.... that video really says everything.. recovering that quickly isnt really possible in lfs

I think there is sometimes dirt where there shouldn't be too. Like on the left-right-left on the Westhill track, if you cut across the concrete too much you get dirty tyres, but most people do so if there was dirt there it should be cleaned up within a few laps.

i only don't like the way they get dirty.
on the way down on cadet.. just a little touch on the grass and the tyre is as dirty as it can get. its okay that it gets that dirty, but not in that time.